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  • FIRST POST
    • Sassybot
    • By Sassybot 7th Mar 18, 8:32 AM
    • 46Posts
    • 5Thanks
    Sassybot
    Fair Wear and Tear and Right to Attend Inspection
    • #1
    • 7th Mar 18, 8:32 AM
    Fair Wear and Tear and Right to Attend Inspection 7th Mar 18 at 8:32 AM
    Morning all,

    I vacated a property on the 4th March and deposited the keys. As part of my agreement with the EA I had hired a cleaner they recommended to do the floors. The original agreement was he would come over the 25th Feb but he re-arranged. Due to the bad weather he arrange with the EA to go and clean the carpets on yesterday and my agreement with the EA was that he would pick the keys up, clean the carpets and then the EA would call me to arrange a time for the exit inspection.

    Yesterday whilst at work I received a large number of calls (of which I missed because I was working), followed by 28 emails from the EA sending me various questions about the 'state' of the property and demanding money for them to apparently be fixed. I was pretty shocked given our agreement. What is more worrying is most of what they are complaining about is the carpet...but they went there with the carpet cleaner :/

    Can anyone advise as to where I stand regarding them conducting the inspection without me? I'm guessing its over and done with now but I'd like to know if I have the right, when I respond to the email, to say that I'm unhappy they broke our agreement.

    Also, they are claiming we have broken the mirror on the bathroom cabinet. The mirror does have a sizeable crack in it however this developed through time as the cabinet is cheaply made and the mirror doors slide open and shut and have no buffer or obvious groove for the mirror doors to slide along. Is it fair to say this should be classed as wear and tear?
Page 1
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 7th Mar 18, 8:36 AM
    • 37,214 Posts
    • 156,780 Thanks
    silvercar
    • #2
    • 7th Mar 18, 8:36 AM
    • #2
    • 7th Mar 18, 8:36 AM
    You have the right to be in the property until the end of the tenancy. If the inspection occurs during that time you have the right to be there. If it occurs after the end date then you don't have the right, though the landlord may agree.
    • HampshireH
    • By HampshireH 7th Mar 18, 8:39 AM
    • 638 Posts
    • 644 Thanks
    HampshireH
    • #3
    • 7th Mar 18, 8:39 AM
    • #3
    • 7th Mar 18, 8:39 AM
    I'm not sure I would class a broken mirror as wear and tear. I would have expected you to report it at the time and find out what they classes it as then

    I wouldn't expect the agent to find out at the end of tenancy inspection. You open yourself up to a claim on the deposit.

    Carpets I would argue
    • Sassybot
    • By Sassybot 7th Mar 18, 8:40 AM
    • 46 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Sassybot
    • #4
    • 7th Mar 18, 8:40 AM
    • #4
    • 7th Mar 18, 8:40 AM
    They agreed that they would arrange a time this week with us. I have an email that states that they are happy to do this given that the circumstances were out of both parties control. It's seems very odd that they would go back on their word especially when we have been more than accommodating during the period of our tenancy.
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 7th Mar 18, 8:47 AM
    • 9,522 Posts
    • 12,771 Thanks
    theartfullodger
    • #5
    • 7th Mar 18, 8:47 AM
    • #5
    • 7th Mar 18, 8:47 AM
    Does the email just they they will arrange a "time this week" or a time this week with you there ?

    But they can change their mind. Hope you took LOTS of photos (low quality - think about it..) ideally with a witness.. If not, bit late now.

    If you don't agree with their proposed deductions simply dispute it with the deposit scheme.
    • Sassybot
    • By Sassybot 7th Mar 18, 8:47 AM
    • 46 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Sassybot
    • #6
    • 7th Mar 18, 8:47 AM
    • #6
    • 7th Mar 18, 8:47 AM
    I'm not sure I would class a broken mirror as wear and tear. I would have expected you to report it at the time and find out what they classes it as then

    I wouldn't expect the agent to find out at the end of tenancy inspection. You open yourself up to a claim on the deposit.

    Carpets I would argue
    Originally posted by HampshireH
    I did report it, at our last inspection in December. They didn't comment or do anything about it. There were bigger problems in the house (a leak which took a fair while to be sorted) so I didn't have chance to raise it again.
    • Sassybot
    • By Sassybot 7th Mar 18, 8:50 AM
    • 46 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Sassybot
    • #7
    • 7th Mar 18, 8:50 AM
    • #7
    • 7th Mar 18, 8:50 AM
    Does the email just they they will arrange a "time this week" or a time this week with you there ?

    But they can change their mind. Hope you took LOTS of photos (low quality - think about it..) ideally with a witness.. If not, bit late now.

    If you don't agree with their proposed deductions simply dispute it with the deposit scheme.
    Originally posted by theartfullodger

    Email states;

    'Not to worry love, the weather has been a nightmare here too and Steve has been in touch to say he can't do the floors until Tuesday. I'll call you after they've been cleaned to arrange a time this week for us to do the inspection.'

    I took plenty of pictures before I left although none of the mirror as they already knew about it. They've not even given a replacement cost for the mirror, just say we need to buy a new one.

    It's all gone a bit strange to be honest so I though it best to get some advise before I respond especially since I'm pretty shocked by their reaction.
    • Out, Vile Jelly
    • By Out, Vile Jelly 7th Mar 18, 10:25 AM
    • 3,958 Posts
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    Out, Vile Jelly
    • #8
    • 7th Mar 18, 10:25 AM
    • #8
    • 7th Mar 18, 10:25 AM
    Was your deposit registered in one of the official schemes? Advise the agent that you will be using their arbitration process, and remind them that you have records of reporting the mirror, and booking the cleaner(s).

    28 quickfire emails is what teenagers do; it's not professional.
    They are an EYESORES!!!!
    • Sassybot
    • By Sassybot 7th Mar 18, 11:46 AM
    • 46 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Sassybot
    • #9
    • 7th Mar 18, 11:46 AM
    • #9
    • 7th Mar 18, 11:46 AM
    Was your deposit registered in one of the official schemes? Advise the agent that you will be using their arbitration process, and remind them that you have records of reporting the mirror, and booking the cleaner(s).

    28 quickfire emails is what teenagers do; it's not professional.
    Originally posted by Out, Vile Jelly
    You're telling me. She has called me six times this morning despite me saying I was unavailable due to work commitments. I don't want to speak to her on the phone because there will be no record of the conversation.

    My OH has pointed out that, despite asking, after each of our four annual inspections they never gave us a written report. So now it is just our word against theirs. I'm so frustrated with myself for not chasing it up.

    We are registered with one of the schemes it can go through that.
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 7th Mar 18, 12:36 PM
    • 2,487 Posts
    • 2,407 Thanks
    steampowered
    I do not think the timing of the inspection matters at all. It simply doesn't matter.

    If the inspection was unlawful because you were in the property, they could just do another inspection later! You are not going to get any compensation over when they did the inspection.

    I think it is more important to focus on what really matters, which is the extent to which you are liable to pay for cleaning up the property.

    I suggest that you send a detailed email back to the landlord clearly stating which deductions you agree with, and which deductions you do not agree with (with an explanation why).

    Personally, I would argue over the carpet. I would probably pay for a crack in the mirror (though it is difficult to know what really caused the crack without seeing the room).
    • Sassybot
    • By Sassybot 7th Mar 18, 6:48 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Sassybot
    I'm not not interested in compensation nor was I aware that this could have ever been a possibility - I just wanted to know if I was right to be annoyed and bring it up with them.

    I've disputed everything they have listed beside cleaning of the oven as we had previously agreed for them to arrange it. Since it was part of our agreement that it needed professionally cleaning and they offered, it was one less thing to arrange.

    Interestingly, the image they have sent of the cracked mirror does not show the crack at all. Instead it is of the side of the unit, having been taken from the middle of the bathroom. I've questioned why they have done this and provided them with a clearer image taken before we left clearly showing the crack coming from the side of the mirror. The crack is caused because the unit is super old and there are no buffers on to protect the mirror door when slid open. It started as a small crack which got slightly larger with use. It was raised to the EA at an annual inspection. They were unconcerned. I have told them I dispute any cost associated with this.

    They don't make things easy do they? I wouldn't be surprised if they were pushing for money from us if there was no one lined up to move into the house however they have someone already. Amusingly it is a man I saw looking at the 'to let' sign and offered to show him around as the EA was due over to do another viewing.
    • Autumnella
    • By Autumnella 7th Mar 18, 7:05 PM
    • 491 Posts
    • 2,046 Thanks
    Autumnella
    You can get 2nd hand glass bathroom cabinets off facebook selling groups for 5-10 so I wouldn't accept them taking anymore than that for the cabinet.
    • sputnik1957
    • By sputnik1957 8th Mar 18, 10:53 AM
    • 22 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    sputnik1957
    I do not think the timing of the inspection matters at all. It simply doesn't matter.
    It does because the onus is then on the LA/Landlord to prove condition when the tenant vacated. While it may not be mandated the tenant wasn't at inspection if it comes to ADR is worth saying "tenant was not invited to the checkout inspection"
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 8th Mar 18, 12:23 PM
    • 1,218 Posts
    • 843 Thanks
    saajan_12
    It does because the onus is then on the LA/Landlord to prove condition when the tenant vacated. While it may not be mandated the tenant wasn't at inspection if it comes to ADR is worth saying "tenant was not invited to the checkout inspection"
    Originally posted by sputnik1957
    Why is that worth saying? No part of the ADR decision would change based on whether the tenant was at the inspection because:
    1) The LL isn't required to invite the tenant, so has done nothing wrong by not inviting.
    2) The checkout inspection report documents the condition of the property at the end of the tenancy. If the tenant disputes the condition, there would usually need to be photographic proof, the tenant being present to 'agree' the description of condition is irrelevant
    3) As the checkout was after the end of the tenancy, the tenant has no right to access the property to rectify any issues anyway, only to pay the costs.

    Regarding the actual damages,
    Broken mirror- did you report the damage in writing to the address for servign notices? Take it to ADR, but that sounds debatable whether it could have been avoided / minimised by you, in which case you'd be partly liable for the cost.
    Carpet cleaning- Did you pay the carpet cleaner? Provide the paid receipt or invoice+payment confo as proof the carpet was cleaned. This should be sufficient to refute their claims in the absence of your pictures.
    Other damages- Compare the check in report / your initial pictures with check out report / your leaving pictures.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 8th Mar 18, 1:30 PM
    • 2,970 Posts
    • 2,938 Thanks
    Comms69
    It does because the onus is then on the LA/Landlord to prove condition when the tenant vacated. While it may not be mandated the tenant wasn't at inspection if it comes to ADR is worth saying "tenant was not invited to the checkout inspection"
    Originally posted by sputnik1957

    Why is it worth saying? it holds no special meaning, the phrase has no power.


    the LL is entitled to claim for up to 6 years, you think the tenant must be invited each time the LL visits the property? Madness
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