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    • freddie212
    • By freddie212 6th Mar 18, 9:41 PM
    • 4Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Indigo railway "penalty notice" - appeal rejected
    • #1
    • 6th Mar 18, 9:41 PM
    Indigo railway "penalty notice" - appeal rejected 6th Mar 18 at 9:41 PM
    Hello experts! First time poster here, please be gentle. I have read everything that I can find that I think is relevant, e.g. the official MSE advice, the "best newbie thread ever" about Indigo, the FAQs, the Parking Tickets Board Sticky. So I'll restrict my questions to what I don't already know, to minimise my use of your time

    Firstly, I admit it, I apologise, I didn't know about this forum and didn't come here first, so I already admitted I'm the driver and gave my details. Am I doomed?

    I received a "penalty notice" on 9 Feb for failing to display a valid permit. Thing is, I have a valid annual permit at an exorbitant cost of 950. It was clearly displayed. Problem was it was upside down, it was a windy day and the new permits from this year are so tiny and lightweight (round paper discs, smaller than a tax disc) that I believe it flipped over as I was exiting the car or closing the door. I know that I put it on the dashboard the right way up. Normally I double check after closing the doors and setting the alarm, but on this case I didn't as I saw the train approaching and I needed to do the 150m sprint rather swiftly (for me, that is). The permit was a few inches away from where I usually place it. Since then, I have started keeping it in a plastic wallet to minimise the chance of this happening again.

    Being a newbie, I appealed almost immediately using the Indigo website, not the "template" found on here - mistake 1. Mistake 2, I ticked the box that says "I'm the driver", at least I didn't untick it. I gave my name and address. However in mitigation, they already know my name and address because it's a registered annual permit, and they have on their records my details and registration numbers of our 3 cars.

    The rejection was rejected, I received this yesterday. No POPLA code, as it's a railway car park and apparently some byelaws apply. Some thoughts:
    - I'm aware of Canterbury Council losing their case on "flipped tickets" - does that count as legal precedent, or is that different?
    - The parking regs as displayed call only for clear display of a valid permit. I had a valid permit, it was displayed clearly. Is it a defence that the regs do not specify that it must be the right way up?
    - Last year, the permits were large, square, laminated and heavier so harder to flip over in the wind. To me, it's Indigo's fault that it flipped over due to the change.
    - It would be easy to make the permit double sided. But they choose not to.
    - A flipped over ticket seems to be a "de minimis" breach of contract. I don't know if that's a valid defence.
    - For a railway car park, is the owner, driver or keeper liable? I'm not sure.. maybe it doesn't matter that I told them I'm the driver?

    Anyway the long and short of it is, should I now just pay up and move on with my life, should I ignore it, or should I take the MSE "Tough, but possible" advice and write to them telling them why I'm not paying? I have to say, I do not mind taking the risk of the charge increasing from 60 to 100 by missing the early payment deadline (in 13 days I think) because I am incensed by this - I have a damned expensive valid ticket.

    Thank you so much!!
    PS: edited to add, the reason for the new thread is that everything I've read is about not admitting to being the driver, and using the standard template to appeal to POPLA if it gets that far, but I'm not sure what to do if I've already been dumb enough to get those bits wrong and I cannot appeal to POPLA; most threads here date back to before the Jan 2018 change that eliminates the POPLA route.
    Last edited by freddie212; 06-03-2018 at 9:46 PM. Reason: edited to add reason for new thread
Page 2
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Apr 18, 1:40 AM
    • 62,736 Posts
    • 75,659 Thanks
    Their little information gathering *cough* I mean appeal form had the "I am the driver" ticked automatically and greyed out to look like it can't be unticked, *and* if you do untick it, it forces you to enter the driver's details, or the form cannot be submitted. So I'm minded to write to them to tell them that I left it ticked simply because I didn't think it mattered.
    OMG we know all this, and no-one leaves that box ticked. Oh dear.

    All people need to do is untick it and put 'none of your business - the keeper is not liable' (or similar) in the driver box.

    Never mind but boy oh boy that was a mistake.

    DO NOT draw attention to having left that box ticked.

    It will still time out after six months. Reply and wind them up if you like.
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