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  • FIRST POST
    • JSCB
    • By JSCB 6th Mar 18, 6:45 PM
    • 44Posts
    • 12Thanks
    JSCB
    Failed MOT Advice?
    • #1
    • 6th Mar 18, 6:45 PM
    Failed MOT Advice? 6th Mar 18 at 6:45 PM
    HI there,

    So I've just got back from the test centre with a failed MOT and not much advice from the guy who issued it other than to come back Saturday for them to sort it! Hopefully, I can get some better knowledge and advice on the issues and what I'm best to do now from here!

    The refusal certificate shows 4 reasons:

    1. Stop Lamp not working Nearside
    2. Stop lamp not working offside
    3. Tyre tread depth below requirements of 1.6mm offside front (inner edge)
    4. Brakes imbalanced across front axle (Which I also have a test print out showing)

    Plus advisory info of:

    5. Tyre worn close to legal limit nearside front (inner edge)
    6. Front (Exhaust bracket adrift)

    However, he couldn't advise me on the brakes issue at all and didn't even mention the exhaust bracket. Didn't mention the brake lights either or whether they're an immediate issue, could I be pulled over for this? Should they of offered to fix them there and then?

    But my biggest issue was that I've only done 13'000 miles on the tyres which were fitted and supposedly tracked less than a year ago at the centre I've been too today. They said that the tracking can run out at anytime.

    I also had a full, complete service in December and had nothing come up there, for any of these issues, but most annoyingly for the tracking or tyres, which the guy tonight said should of been checked in a service. Is this true? Should a service in December have picked up on the tracking being out before the tyres had time to wear to below the limits, or could it have been knocked out and them worn down significant since then within the 3 months since?

    Obviously, not happy they're suggesting I need new tyres within a year of having new and within 3 months of a service, so wondering if there's anything I should be suspicious of there or at least to know whether not to use the garage I used for the service again in future. I just don't see how these 5 separate things have supposedly all came about in the 3 months since my service and seemingly not one started in the 9 months before it.

    Going forward, I'm also wondering whether to go back there Saturday or get a second opinion? Or even to seek somewhere else to do the repairs? I've read online you can take a vehicle away to be repaired and return it within 10 days for a partial rest. However, if what they're saying is true, then it will be the same wherever you go.

    Not sure how any of this work as I've never had a failed MOT before, but obviously don't want to be robbed off!

    Any advice on the things shown or what to do going forward would be hugely appreciated!

    Thanks
    Last edited by JSCB; 06-03-2018 at 6:51 PM.
Page 1
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 6th Mar 18, 6:55 PM
    • 2,938 Posts
    • 1,864 Thanks
    Car 54
    • #2
    • 6th Mar 18, 6:55 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Mar 18, 6:55 PM
    The most urgent thing is the brake lights. You should not be on the road until those are fixed (and the front tyres replaced).

    The test centre need not have (not "of") offered to fix them. Their job is to test, not fix.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 6th Mar 18, 6:55 PM
    • 18,602 Posts
    • 12,749 Thanks
    molerat
    • #3
    • 6th Mar 18, 6:55 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Mar 18, 6:55 PM
    Yes you will likely get pulled with 2 brake lights out.

    Tracking can be put out hitting pot holes etc but your weekly checks should have picked up something amiss with the tyres.

    Hopefully the brake lights will be bulb changes but it should not be found on an MOT, again part of your weekly checks.
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
    • mollycat
    • By mollycat 6th Mar 18, 7:12 PM
    • 1,044 Posts
    • 2,069 Thanks
    mollycat
    • #4
    • 6th Mar 18, 7:12 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Mar 18, 7:12 PM
    A 2nd opinion?

    For x2 bulbs, x1 tyre and (possibly just) a cleaning up of your brakes.

    I wouldn't waste your time. Replace bulbs and tyres, get the garage to tell you what's needed re: the brakes and how much, ()

    Get your tracking done.

    Regular checking of your tyres would have shown the issue months ago.

    If that was my MOT fail, (consumables), I'd be jumping in the air.
    • JSCB
    • By JSCB 6th Mar 18, 7:37 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    JSCB
    • #5
    • 6th Mar 18, 7:37 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Mar 18, 7:37 PM
    A 2nd opinion?

    For x2 bulbs, x1 tyre and (possibly just) a cleaning up of your brakes.

    I wouldn't waste your time. Replace bulbs and tyres, get the garage to tell you what's needed re: the brakes and how much, ()

    Get your tracking done.

    Regular checking of your tyres would have shown the issue months ago.

    If that was my MOT fail, (consumables), I'd be jumping in the air.
    Originally posted by mollycat
    Hopefully it is that simple although his lack of explanation didn't make it so.

    I've just checked my lights myself and they were intermittent, so it's not that the bulbs have just gone, must be something else. Seemed like whether they worked or not depended on where I stood on peddle and with how much pressure, but perhaps that was just me.

    Also hoping the brakes are simple as a quick clean like you say, as I've read other threads of it costing people between 100 for new pads and discs, or up to 200+ for entire units I think.

    In terms of tyres going forward, is it best to get a proper gauge and then you can look regularly and as soon as the inside is showing 2mm and the outside 2.2m for example, taking them to be re-aligned.

    I just don't know anyone who takes checks like that so seriously, yet I also don't know anyone who's had to have new tyres within a year and 3 months of a service either! Perhaps just some bad luck
    • mollycat
    • By mollycat 6th Mar 18, 8:00 PM
    • 1,044 Posts
    • 2,069 Thanks
    mollycat
    • #6
    • 6th Mar 18, 8:00 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Mar 18, 8:00 PM
    Final couple thoughts before I go watch the football.

    1. Youre overthinking the "MOT fail" thing....bulbs(?), brakes and a tyre; I would have just sucked it up.

    2. Dont know what you mean about not knowing anyone who takes checks "like that so seriously", but my experience is that if you need an MOT flag to up tyres and bulbs youre not doing it right.

    Even if you had your car serviced 3 months ago, you still should have looked at your tyres, (several times) since then.
    • takman
    • By takman 7th Mar 18, 12:40 AM
    • 3,326 Posts
    • 2,914 Thanks
    takman
    • #7
    • 7th Mar 18, 12:40 AM
    • #7
    • 7th Mar 18, 12:40 AM
    In terms of tyres going forward, is it best to get a proper gauge and then you can look regularly and as soon as the inside is showing 2mm and the outside 2.2m for example, taking them to be re-aligned.

    I just don't know anyone who takes checks like that so seriously, yet I also don't know anyone who's had to have new tyres within a year and 3 months of a service either! Perhaps just some bad luck
    Originally posted by JSCB
    I really hope your joking!

    So you honestly think that you need to measure your tyre depth and when it gets to around 2mm you get the alignment done?. The only alignment that should be done on tyres at 2mm is aligning them in the container after they have been taken off your car and replaced with new ones.

    Just check your tyres once a week and if they are getting low put new ones on, it's really that simple!. (Inside the tread you will see "bumps" that are at the legal limit for a quick comparison check)
    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 7th Mar 18, 6:09 AM
    • 26,964 Posts
    • 10,862 Thanks
    forgotmyname
    • #8
    • 7th Mar 18, 6:09 AM
    • #8
    • 7th Mar 18, 6:09 AM
    I really hope your joking!

    So you honestly think that you need to measure your tyre depth and when it gets to around 2mm you get the alignment done?. The only alignment that should be done on tyres at 2mm is aligning them in the container after they have been taken off your car and replaced with new ones.

    Just check your tyres once a week and if they are getting low put new ones on, it's really that simple!. (Inside the tread you will see "bumps" that are at the legal limit for a quick comparison check)
    Originally posted by takman
    Nah dont be silly, the sort of driver that doesnt check their lights wont care one jot about the tyres being legal.
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

    My contribution to MSE. Other contributions will only be used if they cost me nothing.

    Due to me being a tight git.
    • Tarambor
    • By Tarambor 7th Mar 18, 10:06 AM
    • 2,857 Posts
    • 2,066 Thanks
    Tarambor
    • #9
    • 7th Mar 18, 10:06 AM
    • #9
    • 7th Mar 18, 10:06 AM
    Didn't mention the brake lights either or whether they're an immediate issue, could I be pulled over for this?
    Originally posted by JSCB
    You're kidding right? Do you have a driving license because that's the kind of nonsense I'd expect from someone who hasn't. When you're driving behind someone do you think that them having brake lights is kind of important to give you an indication they're slowing down?

    And my workplace is sharing the road with people like this.
    • JSCB
    • By JSCB 7th Mar 18, 6:41 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    JSCB
    You're kidding right? Do you have a driving license because that's the kind of nonsense I'd expect from someone who hasn't. When you're driving behind someone do you think that them having brake lights is kind of important to give you an indication they're slowing down?

    And my workplace is sharing the road with people like this.
    Originally posted by Tarambor
    Hang on a minute, perhaps the thread post come across wrong, to me yes, I guess it is obvious, but when I say to the guy at the garage, "is everything ok, obviously I need it for work" expecting him to say "no, but they're an easy fix and we can at least get them sorted now for you if you'd like" but instead he says "Yeah you'll be fine until you come back Saturday," then why would I question that guy who's job is ensuring cars are safe for the road??

    I really hope your joking!

    So you honestly think that you need to measure your tyre depth and when it gets to around 2mm you get the alignment done?. The only alignment that should be done on tyres at 2mm is aligning them in the container after they have been taken off your car and replaced with new ones.

    Just check your tyres once a week and if they are getting low put new ones on, it's really that simple!. (Inside the tread you will see "bumps" that are at the legal limit for a quick comparison check)
    Originally posted by takman
    I'm not talking about the issue of the tyres being low of tread!! Have you read the rest of the thread at all? I have no issue with them needing to be replaced, I just wasn't expecting them to need to be so soon (due to them becoming unaligned) and wanted to know how I can check the alignment at home so I can do so in future before the next set of tyres get ruined within 12 months of being new.

    Perhaps saying 2.2mm was the wrong figure, but it was just for example. I assumed you'd regularly check for difference in tread across the wheel, for example, if it was even across the wheel, you know they were still aligned fine, but if it'd become slightly uneven, FOR EXAMPLE, 2.2mm on the outside and 2mm on the inside, or 4.4mm on the outside and 4mm on the inside then you'd know you need to keep an eye on that difference and perhaps take them in to be realigned before they got ruined again (like this set have been). Regardless of the figures, the 2 or the 4, the question is the same.

    Usually this forum's pretty helpful, especially the finance parts, but the motoring sections disappointed me with some of the unhelpful answers (if you can even call them that!) that I've had.
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 7th Mar 18, 6:50 PM
    • 4,354 Posts
    • 3,825 Thanks
    Joe Horner
    For the brake light issue, spray paint over the side lights (all 4 corners) with a good opaque paint and the brake lights (plus headlights & indicators) become optional & no longer tested.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 7th Mar 18, 7:15 PM
    • 2,938 Posts
    • 1,864 Thanks
    Car 54

    Perhaps saying 2.2mm was the wrong figure, but it was just for example. I assumed you'd regularly check for difference in tread across the wheel, for example, if it was even across the wheel, you know they were still aligned fine, but if it'd become slightly uneven, FOR EXAMPLE, 2.2mm on the outside and 2mm on the inside, or 4.4mm on the outside and 4mm on the inside then you'd know you need to keep an eye on that difference and perhaps take them in to be realigned before they got ruined again (like this set have been). Regardless of the figures, the 2 or the 4, the question is the same.

    Usually this forum's pretty helpful, especially the finance parts, but the motoring sections disappointed me with some of the unhelpful answers (if you can even call them that!) that I've had.
    Originally posted by JSCB
    I don't want to appear unhelpful either, but ....

    How do you plan to measure tread depth with that degree of accuracy?
    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 7th Mar 18, 8:01 PM
    • 13,540 Posts
    • 8,598 Thanks
    arcon5
    There isn't a legal limit on the inside or outside edge. The only requirement is no cord or damage. Tread is only measured across the central 3/4.
    So unless he's entered the wrong fail on the system it shouldn't have failed for the reason stated.

    If you have to ask whether two faulty brake lights is ok though you need to rethink your stance on maintenance.
    • Noree
    • By Noree 7th Mar 18, 9:46 PM
    • 107 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    Noree
    There isn't a legal limit on the inside or outside edge. The only requirement is no cord or damage. Tread is only measured across the central 3/4.
    So unless he's entered the wrong fail on the system it shouldn't have failed for the reason stated.

    If you have to ask whether two faulty brake lights is ok though you need to rethink your stance on maintenance.
    Originally posted by arcon5
    I agree with Arcon5.

    Also, if you are that conscious of the outcome, then you could get the vehicle tested elsewhere. NOT re-tested. You dont have to tell the garage it failed elsewhere either.

    Also, it may be worth checking the brakes report on the imbalance. If any of those wheels locked on the axle of which it failed, then it should have passed. I hope you have a copy of the print out.

    If not, the garage can give you it. Again, if you are conscious of the garages approach and you feel unsure of what they are doing without explanation, then ask. It is their duty to give you an explanation and also a common expectation of customer standards. If you do ask and still dont seem assured, then go elsewhere and do some homework on where to go.

    I always recommend that people use garages that are approved by a code of practice which is Trading Standards approved.

    If you decide to go elsewhere, you can find what!!!8217;s in your area here:

    www.trustmygarage.co.uk The TMG approved garages are backed by Trading Standards.

    Please remember that if you are driving this vehicle, assuming you may have a couple weeks left before MOT runs out and it has failed a MOT, then you could be in trouble as you are now driving it knowingly unroadworthy. If this is the case, then I hope the garage informed you of this. Not loads know to do this. Some even say it!!!8217;s fine to drive as the MOT has not expired; this advice is extremely poor!

    For example, a vehicle has 3 weeks left on their MOT, a seat belt fails a test, the owner of that vehicle knows this and someone sits in that seat with a faulty belt and as a result of an accident, the belt fails. That person is in a lot of trouble.
    Last edited by Noree; 07-03-2018 at 9:54 PM.
    • Ectophile
    • By Ectophile 7th Mar 18, 10:06 PM
    • 3,124 Posts
    • 1,999 Thanks
    Ectophile
    If both brake lights have failed, it's always possible that it's the switch that's gone wrong. It's probably lurking in the footwell behind the brake pedal in the most inaccessible position possible.

    It is possible to replace them yourself, but mine was a pig of a task.

    If you drive around with no brake lights, don't be surprised if you get stopped by the police. Once they have stopped you, they are bound to have a better look at the car, and will realize you have one or two bald tyres as well. At that point, you're in trouble.
    Last edited by Ectophile; 07-03-2018 at 10:07 PM. Reason: correction
    If it sticks, force it.
    If it breaks, well it wasn't working right anyway.
    • Rolandtheroadie
    • By Rolandtheroadie 7th Mar 18, 11:44 PM
    • 4,841 Posts
    • 4,242 Thanks
    Rolandtheroadie

    www.trustmygarage.co.uk The TMG approved garages are backed by Trading Standards.

    Originally posted by Noree
    The garage I use isn't on there.

    I've used them for 28 years (damn I'm getting old), they've never done me a bad turn, will answer any questions I have and are reasonably priced for any work done.
    • takman
    • By takman 8th Mar 18, 10:31 AM
    • 3,326 Posts
    • 2,914 Thanks
    takman
    I'm not talking about the issue of the tyres being low of tread!! Have you read the rest of the thread at all? I have no issue with them needing to be replaced, I just wasn't expecting them to need to be so soon (due to them becoming unaligned) and wanted to know how I can check the alignment at home so I can do so in future before the next set of tyres get ruined within 12 months of being new.

    Perhaps saying 2.2mm was the wrong figure, but it was just for example. I assumed you'd regularly check for difference in tread across the wheel, for example, if it was even across the wheel, you know they were still aligned fine, but if it'd become slightly uneven, FOR EXAMPLE, 2.2mm on the outside and 2mm on the inside, or 4.4mm on the outside and 4mm on the inside then you'd know you need to keep an eye on that difference and perhaps take them in to be realigned before they got ruined again (like this set have been). Regardless of the figures, the 2 or the 4, the question is the same.

    Usually this forum's pretty helpful, especially the finance parts, but the motoring sections disappointed me with some of the unhelpful answers (if you can even call them that!) that I've had.
    Originally posted by JSCB
    Measuring the difference between the inside and outside tread of the tyres is NOT checking the alignment. To check the alignment you need to take it to a decent garage with Hunter Alignment Equipment and get four wheel alignment done correctly. You say you have only had the tracking done in the past and that is only one part of aligning the wheels and sometimes they only do it on the front. So get to somewhere with Hunter equipment and get it setup properly as a first step.

    Then you need to look at what tyres your getting fitted, some last longer than others so read some reviews online.

    You can measure your tyre tread depths but as it's rubber then you won't get very accurate readings. I have a digital depth micrometer and if I measure around the tyre in the same groove I even get slightly different readings. It will also be slightly deformed due to the cars weight and where it is parked. But your best bet is just to measure them every few thousands miles and keep an eye on the overall wear if your concerned.

    You may think these replies are unhelpful but you have turned up at an MOT with an illegal tyre which you claim to no know about (which is your responsibility to check) and both brake lights not working. You really need to take more responsibility for the condition of your car and it blame the person who serviced it 3 months ago when YOUR the one who should be checking it!.
    • JSCB
    • By JSCB 10th Mar 18, 2:04 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    JSCB
    There isn't a legal limit on the inside or outside edge. The only requirement is no cord or damage. Tread is only measured across the central 3/4.
    So unless he's entered the wrong fail on the system it shouldn't have failed for the reason stated.

    If you have to ask whether two faulty brake lights is ok though you need to rethink your stance on maintenance.
    Originally posted by arcon5
    I took it to the local garage at the end of my street for some advice and they said exactly that, that they would pass its tyres as an advisory only, as the wear is outside the central 3/4s and theres no cord or damage showing.

    I think the question on brakes lights came out a bit wrong, was more of a rhetorical question (really meaning, why did the guy at garage say I'd be fine), not the literal question everyone seems to of taken it as. The way of the internet sometimes though.

    If both brake lights have failed, it's always possible that it's the switch that's gone wrong. It's probably lurking in the footwell behind the brake pedal in the most inaccessible position possible.

    It is possible to replace them yourself, but mine was a pig of a task.
    Originally posted by Ectophile
    Thanks for the advice. It was the switch as you suggested, as after some research I found Kia are notorious for it and some models were recalled for it a few years ago. My local garage was able to get one overnight and fitted it today, which is impressive as even the main Kia dealer themselves couldn't get one until next week!

    I agree with Arcon5.

    Also, if you are that conscious of the outcome, then you could get the vehicle tested elsewhere. NOT re-tested. You dont have to tell the garage it failed elsewhere either.

    Also, it may be worth checking the brakes report on the imbalance. If any of those wheels locked on the axle of which it failed, then it should have passed. I hope you have a copy of the print out.

    If not, the garage can give you it. Again, if you are conscious of the garages approach and you feel unsure of what they are doing without explanation, then ask. It is their duty to give you an explanation and also a common expectation of customer standards. If you do ask and still dont seem assured, then go elsewhere and do some homework on where to go.

    I always recommend that people use garages that are approved by a code of practice which is Trading Standards approved.

    If you decide to go elsewhere, you can find what!!!8217;s in your area here:

    www.trustmygarage.co.uk The TMG approved garages are backed by Trading Standards.
    Originally posted by Noree
    Again thanks for the advice,

    I did end up taking it to my local garage, at the end of my street actually which was perfect and where I should of gone in the first place. They actually failed it on just the brake lights and exhaust brackets, but with only advisories on the brakes and tyres. They've welded the exhaust and fitted a new brake light switch this morning, and said I should look at getting my brakes checked out and tyres sorted in the future, but there's no immediate rush nor reason for it to fail on them or to stop me being on the road.

    Personally, I think they're serious advisories, but national just wrongly pushed them into fails in order to put a hard sell on me returning their to get them changed with them. But me being stubborn, I've sorted it elsewhere now and will get the other things checked/sorted in my own time, at places of my choice, without the MOT date on my back and the sales person at National knowing it.

    Thanks again
    Last edited by JSCB; 10-03-2018 at 2:06 PM.
    • Tarambor
    • By Tarambor 10th Mar 18, 3:17 PM
    • 2,857 Posts
    • 2,066 Thanks
    Tarambor
    I've sorted it elsewhere now and will get the other things checked/sorted in my own time, at places of my choice, without the MOT date on my back and the sales person at National knowing it.
    Originally posted by JSCB
    So that'll be at the next MOT given you drove around without brake lights and thought there was nothing wrong with doing so.

    Words fail me when someone says that "they can just get around to sorting out problems when they can be bothered" on the two items that keep you on the road and stop you piling into the car in front or an object such as a wall or lamp post.
    Last edited by Tarambor; 10-03-2018 at 3:19 PM.
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 10th Mar 18, 4:08 PM
    • 31,676 Posts
    • 19,976 Thanks
    DCFC79
    The garage I use isn't on there.

    I've used them for 28 years (damn I'm getting old), they've never done me a bad turn, will answer any questions I have and are reasonably priced for any work done.
    Originally posted by Rolandtheroadie
    Same with the 1 I use.
    Can people stop loaning money/being a guarator to family/friends, it rarely ends well and you lose out as your money is gone or you get shafted with being a guarantor.
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