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  • FIRST POST
    • MerryMacMas
    • By MerryMacMas 6th Mar 18, 3:08 PM
    • 7Posts
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    MerryMacMas
    Can I Cancel New Garage Doors-Signed Contract
    • #1
    • 6th Mar 18, 3:08 PM
    Can I Cancel New Garage Doors-Signed Contract 6th Mar 18 at 3:08 PM
    Hi,

    On Friday 02.03.18, an Agent from a well known company visited me to price up a new large electric garage door (to replace my twin doors), install and fit a lintel. I paid a deposit of 3,500. and signed a contract.

    He said a surveyor would be around in about 10 days to re-measure up and double check what is needed and nothing can proceed until then. Fitting would take about 1 day and would happen in about 10-12 weeks time.

    Over that weekend, my boiler went wrong and needs replacing (about 3,000.) I now cannot afford to purchase a boiler and pay the balance to complete on the garage door. I phoned the company and they say that as the order refers to 'bespoke items' then they wont give me a refund. It does mention this in the contract, however, nothing has yet been made and I notified them only 3 days after I signed.

    I'm writing this with no hot water or heating as I can't order a boiler in case I have to fulfill on this contract. I can't get a loan as I am not currenly working. I've told the company this, but they don't seem interested.

    PLEASE ADVISE......
Page 1
    • Diamandis
    • By Diamandis 6th Mar 18, 3:37 PM
    • 264 Posts
    • 427 Thanks
    Diamandis
    • #2
    • 6th Mar 18, 3:37 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Mar 18, 3:37 PM
    You can cancel the contract but the company can recover any losses from this cancellation from you. This may be a large amount if the doors have already been ordered/made.
    • MerryMacMas
    • By MerryMacMas 6th Mar 18, 3:48 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    MerryMacMas
    • #3
    • 6th Mar 18, 3:48 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Mar 18, 3:48 PM
    Hi,

    Nothing has been made yet, as they can't proceed until the surveyor visits to re-measure and check. I spoke to the company again to see if they offer any finance (even though I knew I wouldn't be eligible (but the don't offer any).
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 6th Mar 18, 4:09 PM
    • 10,943 Posts
    • 7,759 Thanks
    neilmcl
    • #4
    • 6th Mar 18, 4:09 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Mar 18, 4:09 PM
    How much is the whole job, 3,500 is quite a sum for a deposit?

    The trader is generally only entitled to keep an amount sufficient in covering their costs so it would not be reasonable for them to keep the full deposit you're put down.
    Last edited by neilmcl; 06-03-2018 at 4:12 PM.
    • MerryMacMas
    • By MerryMacMas 6th Mar 18, 5:50 PM
    • 7 Posts
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    MerryMacMas
    • #5
    • 6th Mar 18, 5:50 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Mar 18, 5:50 PM
    Hi,

    The total cost is 7,000. I paid half.

    They advise me that there is a letter iin the post to me, advising that this is all legal under 'bespoke items' even though nothing has been made yet.
    • Srose
    • By Srose 6th Mar 18, 6:04 PM
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    Srose
    • #6
    • 6th Mar 18, 6:04 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Mar 18, 6:04 PM
    I have no expertise in this area but my thoughts are;

    Does your contract mention a cooling off period? Also send an email/letter reiterating what you have done. So you have some proof that you tried to cancel the contract within 3 days.

    Something along the lines of; As per our conversation on the phone on the X of the X. I wish to cancel my contract.

    Also somewhere it should mention subject to survey? As the surveyor could arrive and then said no its X more or less.

    State in the letter you understand that there will be a reasonable administration fee for the cancellation. They can't have much expenses as they haven't made anything!

    But from experience, make sure you put things down in writing.
    • Srose
    • By Srose 6th Mar 18, 6:07 PM
    • 7 Posts
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    Srose
    • #7
    • 6th Mar 18, 6:07 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Mar 18, 6:07 PM
    PS side point:

    I was offered a payment plan from British gas for my boiler. I am sure it is a more expensive way to purchase but if you don't have the money available it might be suitable. Get a quote. (there is no obligation! as we didn't take them up on it and the quote didn't cost us anything).
    • lewishardwick
    • By lewishardwick 6th Mar 18, 6:34 PM
    • 542 Posts
    • 678 Thanks
    lewishardwick
    • #8
    • 6th Mar 18, 6:34 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Mar 18, 6:34 PM
    Can you perhaps ask to delay the order? Get the boiler fixed then continue the garage door order in a few months?
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 6th Mar 18, 7:25 PM
    • 4,284 Posts
    • 4,330 Thanks
    DoaM
    • #9
    • 6th Mar 18, 7:25 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Mar 18, 7:25 PM
    Was the contract made at your home?

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/1816/contents/made
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 6th Mar 18, 7:37 PM
    • 7,155 Posts
    • 6,614 Thanks
    KeithP
    Originally posted by DoaM
    The Cancellation of Contracts made in a Consumer's Home or Place of Work etc. Regulations 2008 were superseded by The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013
    .
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 6th Mar 18, 8:38 PM
    • 10,943 Posts
    • 7,759 Thanks
    neilmcl
    Hi,

    The total cost is 7,000. I paid half.

    They advise me that there is a letter iin the post to me, advising that this is all legal under 'bespoke items' even though nothing has been made yet.
    Originally posted by MerryMacMas
    How can the garage doors be "bespoke" if they haven't even had a surveyor out to measure up. If the doors in question are of a standard size then they would not be classed as bespoke or made to your specification.

    It's pretty much the same thing as getting into a contract for double glazing.

    This does sound like what's referred to (in the CCRs) as an "off premises" contract. Did they supply you all the required information, in a durable medium, when the contract was formed (see https://www.businesscompanion.info/en/quick-guides/off-premises-sales/consumer-contracts-off-premises-sales#Informationrequirements)?
    Last edited by neilmcl; 06-03-2018 at 8:43 PM.
    • MerryMacMas
    • By MerryMacMas 7th Mar 18, 10:18 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    MerryMacMas
    'No Right To Cancel'
    I read the link...thank you.

    Under 'No Right To Cancel', it mentions that this can include things like made to measure curtains, glazing etc. It would also include my garage door, as I supposed its made to measure to some degree. (Two single doors replaced with one large one) and someone visits with a tape measure.

    As the well known company is sticking to its contract, I am looking for a loophole within it...perhaps if their surveyor fails to contact me within 21 days, as their contracts states, or delivery will be longer than advised, or hope the surveyor decides the job either isnt priced correctly or cannot be completed as specified (these last two are mentioned within the contract).

    The Agent who visited me did mention about No Right To Cancel, but I genuinally believed there was still a cooling off period and this would only start once the surveyor had confirmed the work and work had started. How foolish am I?

    I have phoned the company a few times to plead my case but the are ADAMANT and quite direct that there is no get out as I signed it. They haven't even offered me a chance for opting out with cancellation fee. I would NOT use this company again and will definitely NOT sign ANY contract without reading and understanding all the parts.
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 8th Mar 18, 12:20 AM
    • 2,488 Posts
    • 2,408 Thanks
    steampowered
    This exact point is addressed in the detailed guidance published by the government. See https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/429300/bis-13-1368-consumer-contracts-information-cancellation-and-additional-payments-regulations-guidance.pdf.

    It says as follows:

    I provide and install garage doors. Can my customer cancel once they've ordered and can I recoup any costs if they do?

    12. If you agree the contract by phone or online or at the customer's home, then they will have a right to cancel unless the door has been specifically made to a non-standard specification.
    So, has your door been specifically made to a non-standard specification?

    If not, send the company that guidance and clearly state in writing (e.g. in an email) that you are exercising your right to cancel the contract and require a full refund.

    Don't do it over the phone. You are speaking to sales people. They will tell you anything over the phone to keep the sale. Do it in writing.
    • MerryMacMas
    • By MerryMacMas 8th Mar 18, 1:59 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    MerryMacMas
    So confused with the info out there...
    Thank you for the quote. I am really confused?

    I spoke with Trading Standards and Citizen Advice. I told them about the problem and the fact that I signed the contract and the fact that it says it refers to bespoke products and that a surveyor has not yet visited, so nothing has been made. They both say, the company have the right to do this (although I think it disgusting there is no cooling off period). I thought ALL companies in the UK had a cooling off period and this was designed to help protect customers from sales people who were perhaps too pushy.

    The contract and their website mentions that these are made to measure and fit your needs and are not 'off the shelf' (i suppose, in other words 'bespoke').

    I may seek some legal advice for clarification, as I can't believe how unhelpful the company are being. I also asked if the could provide finance, but they dont do it.
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 8th Mar 18, 11:21 AM
    • 16,013 Posts
    • 12,064 Thanks
    hollydays
    Have you checked out the reviews for the company.
    I seem to remember a disreputable called essati
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5175076
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 8th Mar 18, 11:22 AM
    • 2,488 Posts
    • 2,408 Thanks
    steampowered
    It sounds like there is a question mark over whether we are genuinely talking about 'bespoke goods' here.

    The statutory definition of bespoke goods is really quite restrictive. guidance is clear that the doors need to be made to a 'non-standard specification'. It looks like the fact that the doors are made to measure is not enough for them to be treated as 'bespoke goods' for the purposes of consumer rights legislation.

    State that you are exercising your right to cancel IN WRITING. I.e. in a letter or in a formal email, and demand a full refund.

    Then see how the company reacts. You can issue a small claim if necessary, perhaps with a 50/50 chance of success.

    Don't do it over the phone. If you continue phoning them at this rate you would lose any right you have to cancel anyway due to the time period expiring.

    Ignore what you've been told by Trading Standards and Citizens Advice. They are able to give basic consumer advice only. Your particular case turns on a technical legal interpretation of what 'bespoke goods' are, and they won't have looked at the legislation or at the specific guidance before advising you.
    • MerryMacMas
    • By MerryMacMas 8th Mar 18, 6:25 PM
    • 7 Posts
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    MerryMacMas
    ...about your
    ...thank you for your advice:-
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    On the back of the contract it reads:-
    RIGHT TO CANCEL - READ CAREFULLY TO FIND OUT ABOUT YOUR CANCELLATION RIGHTS. in relation to bespoke goods i.e.goods made to your individual requirements and dimension, there is no cooling off period and you do not have any rights to cancel.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    You may well be right and I could challenge this to see if these are considered bespoke, but the fact that THEY consider them to be and this is why its on their contract a plus for them? If I do challenge it with them and they still argue they are bespoke, I guess my options are either to complete on the contract, walk away and lose 3,500 or take legal action
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 8th Mar 18, 7:05 PM
    • 2,488 Posts
    • 2,408 Thanks
    steampowered
    They do not get to decide what the words 'bespoke goods' mean. The law decides.

    The legislation says you have no cancellation right for 'the supply of goods that are made to the consumer's specifications or are clearly personalised'. See http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/28/made

    The government's guidance clearly says that, in the case of garage door companies, there is a right to cancel unless 'the door has been specifically made to a non-standard specification'.

    If you pushed this legally, there is a very high chance they would just refund you rather than having to face down a judge.

    If they did defend a legal claim, I reckon you would have a 50/50 chance in court.

    To be clearer I think more details would be required as how exactly the garage doors are made. i.e. are they truly 'bespoke' or is it simply a matter of the manufacturer assembling or playing around with pre-manufactured parts. I suspect it is the latter.
    • MerryMacMas
    • By MerryMacMas 25th Apr 18, 4:26 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    MerryMacMas
    A quick update as to the situation.

    After writing to the company several times, that have agreed to cancel the contract, but expect me to pay a 700 admin charge.

    I am in dispute about this, as their surveyor hasn't visited to re-measure, prior to making/cutting and installing the garage door. I don't know how they can justify such an amount. I am amazed that companies can expect t get away with this sort of treatment and no-one seems bothered to get these 'No Right To Cancel' / 'No cooling Off Period) looked into, or name and shame companies that have this.

    It looks like, the next step will be the small claims court.
    • Deastons
    • By Deastons 25th Apr 18, 6:20 PM
    • 198 Posts
    • 114 Thanks
    Deastons
    A quick update as to the situation.

    After writing to the company several times, that have agreed to cancel the contract, but expect me to pay a 700 admin charge.
    Originally posted by MerryMacMas
    Bear in mind that 700, albeit a lot, is only 10% of the total contract price.

    Considering you had no legal comeback and they didn't have to agree to cancel, I think you got a good result. And can now get your boiler.

    I am amazed that companies can expect t get away with this sort of treatment and no-one seems bothered to get these 'No Right To Cancel' / 'No cooling Off Period) looked into, or name and shame companies that have this.
    Originally posted by MerryMacMas
    I am amazed someone would sign a contract worth 7,000 without first reading it and checking they're happy.
    Last edited by Deastons; 25-04-2018 at 6:23 PM.
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