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  • FIRST POST
    • freddo1981
    • By freddo1981 6th Mar 18, 12:16 PM
    • 7Posts
    • 1Thanks
    freddo1981
    PCN @ Windor Castle Car Park - Advice
    • #1
    • 6th Mar 18, 12:16 PM
    PCN @ Windor Castle Car Park - Advice 6th Mar 18 at 12:16 PM
    Hello. Looking for some quick advice please. We got a PCN at Windsor Castle Car Park last week.

    A family group of us used the car park in two cars. Pay and Display charge is 6 for up to 2 hours. Both tickets were bought one after the other using loose change at the same machine. The first ticket was purchased correctly. Having put all the pre-counted change in for the second ticket we pressed the button thinking it had registered the correct amount of money and the ticket was dispensed. To cut a long story short, being in a hurry it turns out nobody looked at the expiry time on this second ticket as it was assumed to be the same as the first ticket we bought for the other car.

    The machine had in fact only registered 5.90 on the second ticket, not 6. We came back an hour and a half later to a PCN. It had given us only an hour instead of the two hours we thought it would have. Part hours were obviously not calculated because it is 4 for up to one hour. Therefore the extra 1.90 did not amount to any extra time between 1 and 2 hours stay.

    I hope this all make sense. I accept we had multiple occasions to realise the error and a PCN was probably rightly issued. Do we have any chance to appeal due to this honest mistake? If so, what would be our best argument?

    I have the pay and display tickets for both cars showing they were bought one after the other.

    Many thanks for any assistance.
    Last edited by freddo1981; 06-03-2018 at 4:48 PM.
Page 1
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 6th Mar 18, 12:33 PM
    • 35,568 Posts
    • 19,775 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #2
    • 6th Mar 18, 12:33 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Mar 18, 12:33 PM
    Everyone is politely asked to read the newbies FAQ thread near the top of the forum before starting a new thread

    Go there to see the game you are now caught up in and how to deal with this

    If you need more advice after reading there then post here
    • freddo1981
    • By freddo1981 6th Mar 18, 1:10 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    freddo1981
    • #3
    • 6th Mar 18, 1:10 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Mar 18, 1:10 PM
    Thank you Quentin. I have indeed read the newbies thread.

    I am confused as to what parts my particular situation refers to.

    The PCN was issues 10 mins after the 1 hour expiry.

    up to 1 hour - 4
    up to 2 hours - 6

    Having paid 5.90 and the machine still allowing me to print to ticket, is there an argument to be made that the extra 1.90 I paid for the ticket over the 4, if calculating part hours, takes the expiry time to 1 hour and 57 minutes after issue (assuming part hours). Seeing as the PCN was issued at 1 hour and 10 mins from issue of ticket, in theory I had an extra 47 mins of paid time and therefore the land owner had accrued no loss at all at the time of the PCN.
    Last edited by freddo1981; 06-03-2018 at 4:49 PM.
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 6th Mar 18, 2:49 PM
    • 1,263 Posts
    • 1,714 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    • #4
    • 6th Mar 18, 2:49 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Mar 18, 2:49 PM
    this is nothing to do with landowner , just gread by parking co , who only get paid by issuing tickets


    please read the newbie thread before ringing/writing or doing anything else

    you will see that you are now dealing with crooks etc etc (hansard)

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4816822
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 6th Mar 18, 2:51 PM
    • 7,148 Posts
    • 6,605 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #5
    • 6th Mar 18, 2:51 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Mar 18, 2:51 PM
    Who is the car park operator?
    .
    • freddo1981
    • By freddo1981 6th Mar 18, 4:27 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    freddo1981
    • #6
    • 6th Mar 18, 4:27 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Mar 18, 4:27 PM
    Who is the car park operator?
    Originally posted by KeithP
    UK Parking Limited
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 6th Mar 18, 4:32 PM
    • 17,564 Posts
    • 27,765 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #7
    • 6th Mar 18, 4:32 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Mar 18, 4:32 PM
    UK Parking Limited
    Originally posted by freddo1981
    IPC operator, so wait for the Notice to Keeper to come through the post, then use the initial appeal from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1 (don't alter it or try 'telling your story', because they will reject anything and everything).

    You then ignore anything else that comes your way, unless you get a LBA or MCOL Claim (see NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #5 for acronyms). Come back if you get either.

    When you read the sticky, all the above will be laid out in it.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 6th Mar 18, 4:50 PM
    • 9,203 Posts
    • 8,968 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #8
    • 6th Mar 18, 4:50 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Mar 18, 4:50 PM
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences.

    Parking Eye, Smart and a smaller company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (who take hundreds of these cases to court, and nearly always lose), who have also been reported to the regulatory authority.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind most of these companies may well be put out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Mar 18, 6:54 PM
    • 57,361 Posts
    • 70,957 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 6th Mar 18, 6:54 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Mar 18, 6:54 PM
    Thank you Quentin. I have indeed read the newbies thread.

    I am confused as to what parts my particular situation refers to.

    Any IPC member, all the same.
    Appeal is not to get it cancelled, just to set the scene of reasonableness before you swerve the *offer* of IAS stage and start ignoring them, like with ALL IPC members (unless you get a court claim).

    Nothing to say really about any PCN from any IPC member. Can't get much simpler. Appeal then ignore. Always try the complain to the landowner as Plan A, always try that.

    Stop thinking you deserve this penalty, you do not. The PCN was NOT rightfully issued it's an outrageous scam* industry, through and through, and NO-ONE should think of paying these firms.

    We win 99% of defended claims, if you get one. No risk, no CCJ as long as you don't ignore a claim.



    *Hansard 2.2.18 = please watch the debate in Parliament, linked by The Deep. WELL WORTH IT.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 06-03-2018 at 6:58 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • freddo1981
    • By freddo1981 6th Mar 18, 7:51 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    freddo1981

    Any IPC member, all the same.
    Appeal is not to get it cancelled, just to set the scene of reasonableness before you swerve the *offer* of IAS stage and start ignoring them, like with ALL IPC members (unless you get a court claim).

    Nothing to say really about any PCN from any IPC member. Can't get much simpler. Appeal then ignore. Always try the complain to the landowner as Plan A, always try that.

    Stop thinking you deserve this penalty, you do not. The PCN was NOT rightfully issued it's an outrageous scam* industry, through and through, and NO-ONE should think of paying these firms.

    We win 99% of defended claims, if you get one. No risk, no CCJ as long as you don't ignore a claim.



    *Hansard 2.2.18 = please watch the debate in Parliament, linked by The Deep. WELL WORTH IT.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Thank you Coupon-mad. I am very fortunate that I have found within this forum a case that is very similar to mine, which incidentally you had a hand in helping with. Title of that thread is: '10p didnt register now rec'd court papers'.

    Having read the entire thread it seems I have pretty much all I need to take this to the small claims if needs be. The only difference being mine is UK Parking ltd and theirs was Excel.

    I will no doubt find differences over time and am sure I can rely on the help of the more expert members of this forum when that time comes.
    • freddo1981
    • By freddo1981 6th Mar 18, 7:56 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    freddo1981
    My first action will be to appeal the original PCN when the time comes. I have 5 days before the discounted rate expires. I know the Newbies thread outlines a copy and paste initial reply. However, should I not outline the specifics of my case within it? The machine not registering all the money etc.

    I fully expect to have the appeal rejected. If the case does eventually go to small claims and I do not mention the specifics in my initial appeal, will they not ask why? The cut and paste reply doesn't really relate to my situation at all.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 6th Mar 18, 8:06 PM
    • 7,148 Posts
    • 6,605 Thanks
    KeithP
    There is absolutely no point in 'outlining the specifics'.

    At least two posters have strongly suggested you appeal will fail, and you have accepted that. So what is the point of wasting effort writing anything else?

    The only point of appealing at this stage is that if it gets to court then you are able to demonstrate that you tried to engage with the claimant at the earliest opportunity. That's all.

    You are of course free to write whatever you like in your appeal.
    .
    • freddo1981
    • By freddo1981 6th Mar 18, 8:13 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    freddo1981
    There is absolutely no point in 'outlining the specifics'.

    At least two posters have strongly suggested you appeal will fail, and you have accepted that. So what is the point of wasting effort writing anything else?

    The only point of appealing at this stage is that if it gets to court then you are able to demonstrate that you tried to engage with the claimant at the earliest opportunity. That's all.

    You are of course free to write whatever you like in your appeal.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    Makes sense, thank you
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Mar 18, 8:45 PM
    • 57,361 Posts
    • 70,957 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    If you do add any words about the machine failing to accept 10p (which you can if you want) do NOT say who was driving, not ''me'' nor ''I did this''.

    Talk about the driver and the car in the third person at this stage. Or use the template only.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • freddo1981
    • By freddo1981 6th Mar 18, 9:50 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    freddo1981
    If you do add any words about the machine failing to accept 10p (which you can if you want) do NOT say who was driving, not ''me'' nor ''I did this''.

    Talk about the driver and the car in the third person at this stage. Or use the template only.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Glad you said that, I forgot to ask previously.
    Last edited by freddo1981; 06-03-2018 at 10:12 PM.
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