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    • steve-me5
    • By steve-me5 6th Mar 18, 8:22 AM
    • 13Posts
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    steve-me5
    Pension Tracing
    • #1
    • 6th Mar 18, 8:22 AM
    Pension Tracing 6th Mar 18 at 8:22 AM
    Any advice please on how to approach a company regarding pension tracing - my parents both worked for a large UK company for a combined total of about 40 years - mum passed away last year but dad is still here with dementia - before he lost capacity i asked if he had ever opted out the company pension and without any hesitation he said no - am finding it very difficult to believe that both parent would have voluntarily opted out of, what at the time and probably still is, a very good company pension? i have contacted the pension company once already with a cursory email and they say they can find no trace of my parents ever paying in to a company pension - is there anything more i can do regards tracing? are there any other records anywhere which could be traced or is everything with the pesnion administrators? ( i have LPoA) - thanks in advance
Page 1
    • Brynsam
    • By Brynsam 6th Mar 18, 9:42 AM
    • 916 Posts
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    Brynsam
    • #2
    • 6th Mar 18, 9:42 AM
    • #2
    • 6th Mar 18, 9:42 AM
    Check with the Pension Tracing Service https://www.gov.uk/find-pension-contact-details using as much information as you have. It's quite possible that the scheme to which your parents might have belonged has been wound up, in which case benefits may now be with an insurer and the present administrators of the scheme simply don't have the necessary records, even if they 'should'.

    Unless you have some sort of evidence to show that one or other parent was in a pension scheme, it is very difficult to prove otherwise - but a 'cursory e-mail' may not have given the administrators enough to go on. Write again, giving full names and details as far as you can of dates of birth, NI numbers, periods of employment, names of employer(s) (might not have been the main company and/or had a change of name).

    Also worth checking if the state pension has any deduction because your parents were contracting out of the state additional pension at any stage. That would signify they had some sort of (non-state) pension provision.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 6th Mar 18, 10:20 AM
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    AnotherJoe
    • #3
    • 6th Mar 18, 10:20 AM
    • #3
    • 6th Mar 18, 10:20 AM
    So your mum didn't get a pension from this company?
    • steve-me5
    • By steve-me5 6th Mar 18, 11:33 AM
    • 13 Posts
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    steve-me5
    • #4
    • 6th Mar 18, 11:33 AM
    • #4
    • 6th Mar 18, 11:33 AM
    not that i am aware they only had state pensions as income - and knowing my dad i wouldnt be at all surprised if he just plain forgot that the onus was on him to contact the pension on his 60th birthday to make the claim

    ive checked the employment history for dad - it is seventeen years - i need to get onto NIC records if i can to check mums employment dates but i think from memory its about 25 years ish
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 6th Mar 18, 11:45 AM
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    xylophone
    • #5
    • 6th Mar 18, 11:45 AM
    • #5
    • 6th Mar 18, 11:45 AM
    Have you checked your father's annual statement of benefits from the DWP?

    Do you see anything like this

    HOW.YOUR BENEFIT IS MADE UP

    basic State Pension
    Pre 97 additional State Pension
    less Contracted-Out Deduct ion (COD) of
    Total payable
    Post 97 additional State Pension
    Graduated Retirement Benefit


    If you can't find the current year's, there should be one arriving in the post in the next few days for 2018-19.

    Do you have any of your mother's old paperwork?
    • steve-me5
    • By steve-me5 6th Mar 18, 4:49 PM
    • 13 Posts
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    steve-me5
    • #6
    • 6th Mar 18, 4:49 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Mar 18, 4:49 PM
    just checking now - NI office have confirmed that no contracted out payments at all so all ni went to state pension
    • Brynsam
    • By Brynsam 6th Mar 18, 5:08 PM
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    Brynsam
    • #7
    • 6th Mar 18, 5:08 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Mar 18, 5:08 PM
    Could you tell us the name of the employer/scheme and rough dates of employment? 1988 is a key date; that's the year employers lost the right to make membership of their pension scheme compulsory and many moved to a situation where employees had to sign up to join. Many employees never got round to doing just that...
    • LHW99
    • By LHW99 6th Mar 18, 10:58 PM
    • 1,277 Posts
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    LHW99
    • #8
    • 6th Mar 18, 10:58 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Mar 18, 10:58 PM
    Are there any old payslips anywhere in the house? There could be some details on those.
    • steve-me5
    • By steve-me5 7th Mar 18, 9:31 AM
    • 13 Posts
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    steve-me5
    • #9
    • 7th Mar 18, 9:31 AM
    • #9
    • 7th Mar 18, 9:31 AM
    Could you tell us the name of the employer/scheme and rough dates of employment? 1988 is a key date; that's the year employers lost the right to make membership of their pension scheme compulsory and many moved to a situation where employees had to sign up to join. Many employees never got round to doing just that...
    Originally posted by Brynsam
    it was pre88 - dad started work there in 80/81 and mum was there before that date but NI records have stated there were no contracted out payments at all for mum
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 7th Mar 18, 9:54 AM
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    Silvertabby
    it was pre88 - dad started work there in 80/81 and mum was there before that date but NI records have stated there were no contracted out payments at all for mum
    Originally posted by steve-me5
    Did your mum work part time? Many schemes didn't allow part timers to join before 1995, and then your mum may have had to actually apply to join after that.

    Your dad may have opted out if money was tight, but his generation tended to see the value of paying into a pension scheme if one was available.

    It is possible - but unusual for the time - for the scheme not to have been contracted out, hence the State pension result.

    Can you post the name of the Company?
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 7th Mar 18, 2:14 PM
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    xylophone
    If your father was in a contracted out DB scheme from 1980 onwards then there should be a GMP.

    It is possible that the pension scheme was not contracted out, in which case he would have been accruing additional state pension (SERPS).

    Does your father have any pension provision other than his state pension?

    Is it possible that his pension was transferred to a subsequent employer?
    • steve-me5
    • By steve-me5 7th Mar 18, 7:03 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    steve-me5
    Did your mum work part time? Many schemes didn't allow part timers to join before 1995, and then your mum may have had to actually apply to join after that.

    Your dad may have opted out if money was tight, but his generation tended to see the value of paying into a pension scheme if one was available.

    It is possible - but unusual for the time - for the scheme not to have been contracted out, hence the State pension result.

    Can you post the name of the Company?
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    no mum was not part time - i asked dad over a year ago while he still had capacity if he ever opted out and he stated quite adamantly that he didnt and he understood what i was explaining

    his state pension seems to be 'average'

    equiniti
    • Brynsam
    • By Brynsam 7th Mar 18, 8:54 PM
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    Brynsam
    Quite possible that your mother paid what used to be known colloquially as 'the small stamp' - a lower level of National Insurance which married women (not men) could choose to pay. They would not build up an entitlement to the state pension, so even if she did belong to a 'contracted out' scheme, this would not show up on her NI record.

    Edit - corrected with apologies (and thanks to Xylophone!)
    Last edited by Brynsam; 07-03-2018 at 11:08 PM. Reason: To amend error
    • Zanderman
    • By Zanderman 7th Mar 18, 8:57 PM
    • 1,516 Posts
    • 4,014 Thanks
    Zanderman
    equiniti
    Originally posted by steve-me5
    Do you mean they worked for Equiniti? Equiniti was only founded in about 2007 so that seems unlikely. Or do you think the pensions are run by Equiniti?

    It would be helpful to know what the company they worked for was called, when they worked for it
    • Brynsam
    • By Brynsam 7th Mar 18, 9:21 PM
    • 916 Posts
    • 602 Thanks
    Brynsam
    Equini are third party pension scheme administrators. The name of the company your parents worked for might help us help you.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 7th Mar 18, 10:25 PM
    • 25,371 Posts
    • 14,967 Thanks
    xylophone
    They would still build up an entitlement to the basic state pension, but not the state additional pension (Graduated Retirement Benefit/SERPS/State Second Pension),
    This is not accurate.

    See House of Commons Library

    Married women and state pensions
    Standard Note: SN 1910
    Last updated: 28 October 2014
    Author: Djuna Thurley
    Section Business and Transport Section


    Before 1977, married women were able to elect to pay reduced National Insurance contributions in return for not accruing entitlement to contributory benefits such as the state pension in their own right. Instead, they would be able to claim a state pension at 60% of the
    basic rate on the basis of their husband's contributions when both had reached State Pension age.


    The option to pay reduced rate contributions was removed for marriages on or after 6 April 1977, but women who had already married were given the option of retaining it.

    However, some women who had paid reduced contributions were later shocked to find they had accrued low state pension entitlements, arguing that the position had not been clear to them. In response to debates on the issue, government ministers have tended to argue that
    information to explain the implications was made available to women both at the time the election was made and in subsequent information campaigns.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/special-reports/the-married-women-getting-30p-a-week-pension---despite-50-years/

    Lynda Moore, 71, was offered the lower rate when she got married in the early 1960s.

    The retired nurse says she did not make the connection with her state pension, believing that the reduced rate, also known as the "small stamp", was "something to do with the NHS".

    Now her pension is worth just 30p a week, despite the fact that she worked for almost 50 years.
    Last edited by xylophone; 07-03-2018 at 10:36 PM. Reason: add
    • steve-me5
    • By steve-me5 8th Mar 18, 7:29 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    steve-me5
    Quite possible that your mother paid what used to be known colloquially as 'the small stamp' - a lower level of National Insurance which married women (not men) could choose to pay. They would not build up an entitlement to the state pension, so even if she did belong to a 'contracted out' scheme, this would not show up on her NI record.

    Edit - corrected with apologies (and thanks to Xylophone!)
    Originally posted by Brynsam
    her pension payment was very small compared to dads so possibly
    • steve-me5
    • By steve-me5 8th Mar 18, 9:46 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    steve-me5
    Equini are third party pension scheme administrators. The name of the company your parents worked for might help us help you.
    Originally posted by Brynsam
    Elliot Brothers - GECMarconi - GEC Marconi Avionics - GEC Avionics - British Aerospace

    was all the same company just kept changing name every 4-5 years
    • steve-me5
    • By steve-me5 8th Mar 18, 12:43 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    steve-me5


    now even more confused as found a pay statement from december 99 but there is no NI on it ???
    Last edited by steve-me5; 08-03-2018 at 12:47 PM.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 8th Mar 18, 1:05 PM
    • 2,715 Posts
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    Silvertabby


    now even more confused as found a pay statement from december 99 but there is no NI on it ???
    Originally posted by steve-me5
    NI Cat C (top line) means over State pension age, so no NI is payable. Your dad must have reached 65 earlier that year, hence the 45.12 balance.

    More worrying is the absence of company pension contributions. Can you find any earler payslips? Some pension schemes didn't permit contributions over State pension age.
    Last edited by Silvertabby; 08-03-2018 at 1:11 PM.
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