Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Silvercloud18
    • By Silvercloud18 6th Mar 18, 1:11 AM
    • 101Posts
    • 62Thanks
    Silvercloud18
    Parkingeye fine - Aire Street Leeds
    • #1
    • 6th Mar 18, 1:11 AM
    Parkingeye fine - Aire Street Leeds 6th Mar 18 at 1:11 AM
    Hi,

    Looking for a bit of help/guidance with regards to my appeal. I'm new to posting here but have read threads regarding this until I'm cross eyed as it's really playing havoc with my anxiety with this holding over me.

    I've had my appeal to parkingeye declined today so now need to prepare my POPLA appeal.

    I don't know why it was declined from Parkingeye as no information seems to be given except for I should have paid to park. I included a lot in my appeal to them but it seems to have been ignored so not sure if I was on the right lines.

    The fine was issues on the grounds of not paying parking for a 15 miniute stay.

    The car was driven in to Aire street car park, looked for a space on the front, tried to drive round but met by a big mound of rubble, reversed round to the back, the car park was ridiculously packed with cars all over the place so trying to navigate round was almost impossible, read the terms on back wall which you needed to get out the car to do and as it was dark light up with a phone. Terms weren't agreed as wasn't clear at 4.30pm whether to pay a day rate till 6.30pm or day and night rate. Left the car park for alternative parking. Totalling 15 mins in the grounds.

    Would it help if I posted my initial appeal to Parkingeye?

    Any help would be appreciated as I just feel a bit lost with it all now.
Page 5
    • Silvercloud18
    • By Silvercloud18 8th May 18, 9:36 PM
    • 101 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    Silvercloud18
    Also dont understand why she has gone massive on ANPR when that was my last point. The grace period was my main, quoting the other assessors decision
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th May 18, 9:40 PM
    • 61,657 Posts
    • 74,559 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Should i bother attempting to complain to POPLA about the assessor not sticking to the same guidelines as others?
    Originally posted by Silvercloud18
    Yes and about this being fatally wrong:
    In terms of the technology of the ANPR cameras themselves, the British Parking Association audits the ANPR systems in use by parking operators in order to ensure that they are in good working order and that the data collected is accurate. Independent research has found that the technology is generally accurate.
    See here:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=74260592#post74260592

    HTH
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Silvercloud18
    • By Silvercloud18 8th May 18, 9:43 PM
    • 101 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    Silvercloud18
    Thanks ill have a read.

    And her whole summary paragraph is wrong as if she hasnt read any of my appeal or looked at evidence that i parked and paid elsewhere!?

    "Fundamentally, it is the motorist responsibility to check for any terms and conditions, and either adhere to them or choose to leave. By parking your vehicle at the site, the driver of the vehicle is indicating an acceptance of the terms and conditions. After considering the evidence, I am satisfied that the appellant failed to meet these terms and conditions. I can only conclude the operator issued the parking charge correctly. Therefore, this appeal must be refused."
    • Silvercloud18
    • By Silvercloud18 8th May 18, 9:47 PM
    • 101 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    Silvercloud18
    thank CM just read your reply on the decisions thread! I'm that annoyed about their lack of consistency i ended up ranting on the wrong thread. apologies.
    • Silvercloud18
    • By Silvercloud18 8th May 18, 11:52 PM
    • 101 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    Silvercloud18
    Even started to get paranoid of a personal agenda as they're based 2 miles away from me

    Going to do a letter of complaint under shortfall of service due to being so wrong about the anpr and massive inconsistencies in their service.

    Will post when done
    • Silvercloud18
    • By Silvercloud18 14th May 18, 12:02 AM
    • 101 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    Silvercloud18
    A complaint has been sent to POPLA. I'm not going to post details just yet as slightly paranoid over possible assessors lurking here.

    I'll let you know if I get a reply. Not holding much hope out after the reports on my appeal
    • Silvercloud18
    • By Silvercloud18 17th May 18, 11:41 AM
    • 101 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    Silvercloud18
    Received my reply about my complaint.... laughable at best although do admit that the assessor made a mistake saying ANPR is checked but then goes on to say they are humans!!!
    • Silvercloud18
    • By Silvercloud18 17th May 18, 11:43 AM
    • 101 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    Silvercloud18
    Your complaint about POPLA

    Thank you for your email dated 13 May, 2018 which was passed to me by the POPLA team as I am responsible for responding to complaints.

    I note from your correspondence that you are unhappy with the decision reached by the assessor in your appeal against Parking Eye Ltd.

    POPLA is an impartial and independent appeals service and we do not act either for the parking operator or the appellant. It is important to explain that it is not our remit to source evidence and documents from either party in support of their submission and our decisions are based on the evidence received from both parties at the time of the appeal. We cannot consider further evidence after the appeal has been completed.

    You explained the conditions at this car park and stated this affected the driver leaving the site, the assessor responded to this as below "Section 13.2 of The BPA Code of Practice that states: "You should allow the driver a reasonable "grace period" in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the driver is on your land without permission, you should still allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave before you take enforcement action"
    However, the driver remained at the car park for 15 minutes without making a payment. I have considered the size of this car park and based on that, I believe that 15 minutes is in excess of a reasonable period to remain in this car park without making a payment. While I appreciate the appellants comments about the car park conditions, I do not consider that it would take 15 minutes to park, attempt to read the signs then leave a car park of this size"

    You asked if POPLA has a governing body; Ombudsman Services is the organisation which administers POPLA. The board is made up of independent directors. It is our boards role to appoint the Chief Ombudsman and to ensure the independence of the service.

    You highlight that our assessor has incorrectly referenced that the BPA completes audits of Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) technology. The BPA Code of Practice (21.3) sets out that operators need to ensure the cameras are in good working order, that the data captured is accurate and securely held, and that the BPA's compliance team may audit the systems operators have in place.

    Although the BPA Code of Practice sets out that it may audit the systems operators have in place; the BPA does not complete technical checks on the cameras. I am sorry for the misleading wording in the assessor's decision. We have provided advice to our team on this point today.

    You have questioned how POPLA can receive two appeals with the same grounds of appeal and a different decision is made. While we accept that two appeals can outwardly appear to be based on the same information, decisions are very sensitive to the submissions of both parties.

    The sequence of events presented by the motorist can take an appeal in different directions. As such, even if two motorists have the same parking circumstances, if one motorist provides more detail about the circumstances from the day, this may give our assessor much more information on which to base their decision.

    In addition, we have humans applying judgement to the circumstances of each appeal. We provide decision-making guidance to our assessors and this is aimed at ensuring consistency. However, it is possible two assessors will weight evidence differently, and reach different outcomes. If the assessors have applied reasonable judgement to the facts, neither decision is necessarily wrong.

    I appreciate the frustration this may cause but our service is a one-stage appeals service and our assessor must make the decision based on the information made available to them at the time.

    Other points within your complaint remain unanswered as I consider that the assessor sufficiently considered each point given.

    I have reviewed the assessor's decision and I am satisfied that the outcome reached is correct. As POPLA is a one-stage process, there is no opportunity for you to appeal the decision.

    As our involvement in your appeal has now concluded you may wish to pursue matters further. For independent legal advice, please contact Citizens Advice at: www.citizensadvice.org.uk or call 0345 404 05 06 (English) or 0345 404 0505 (Welsh).

    In closing, I am sorry that your experience of using our service has not been positive. We have reached the end of our process and my response now concludes our complaints procedure. I trust you will appreciate that there will be no further review of your complaint and it will not be appropriate for us to respond to any further correspondence on this matter.
    Last edited by Silvercloud18; 17-05-2018 at 1:04 PM. Reason: text
    • Silvercloud18
    • By Silvercloud18 17th May 18, 11:44 AM
    • 101 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    Silvercloud18
    Just to add my friends appeal was 2 pages long using my photographs mine was 9 including more photos. Just assume that was too long and she couldn't be bothered reading it in full.
    • Silvercloud18
    • By Silvercloud18 17th May 18, 9:02 PM
    • 101 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    Silvercloud18
    So I guess I just wait for the court letter then? Honestly what are people's opinions on my chances? Feeling very frustrated with this whole ridiculousness from POPLA
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th May 18, 9:16 PM
    • 61,657 Posts
    • 74,559 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Your chances are very good. And there is no risk, even if you lost at a hearing v PE you'd just pay £175ish and it will be over.

    We consistently see 99% of well defended cases here, won, since 2017.

    No risk, no CCJ, nothing bad. Just another bite at the dispute cherry and this time, a decision from (hopefully) a fairer and more consistent court.

    I would indeed wait and see and fight it and use your friend's decision as evidence among your other evidence (photos, etc., and the ICO CoP on ANPR surveillance camera use 24/7 being potentially excessive and disproportionate).

    Your friend could also be your witness, confirming that it's not just about the size of this car park, it's the surface rubble, lack of bays, lack of lighting, faded old machines that can't be read any better than the signs can, and the narrow shared entry/exit bottleneck that means even if you wanted to drive straight out, if 2 or 3 cars were manoeuvring or driving in blocking the exit, you could spend a few of extra minutes merely queuing and exiting alone.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Silvercloud18
    • By Silvercloud18 17th May 18, 9:23 PM
    • 101 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    Silvercloud18
    Thanks that's reassuring! Even tempted when I go and visit her in Leeds to wait till dark and take pictures of this car park as assessor made a point of saying I didn't prove my points. Also on a Saturday as it's more the double parking making it ridiculous to get about as well!

    Think I just needed that to tell me to keep fighting. I seen a loss in court and it kinda put me off but I'm not one for backing down :-)
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th May 18, 2:02 AM
    • 61,657 Posts
    • 74,559 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You should get photos of the signs in the dark, and the old scratched machines in the dark, and the rubble and lack of bay markings, and the narrow entry/exit.

    You'll need this later and they might change the signs next month, or they might add more lighting!

    Just don't PARK in there, no driving in! Walk in during hours of darkness. No using flash.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Silvercloud18
    • By Silvercloud18 19th Jun 18, 10:01 PM
    • 101 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    Silvercloud18
    Sorry for delayed reply. I had to step away from this after my strange decision as I was losing sleep over it!

    Thanks for advise. I havenít had the time to get up to Leeds but I will try and make the 3 hour round trip purely to fight this. Failing that I have a friend in Leeds who is back from travelling at the end of the month.

    Is it weird Iíve not had anything through from PE yet? Worrying me slightly as just want to get it all sorted. How long do they have, did I read 3 years? Iíve only just had my change of addresss come through from DVLA so have a feeling they will have purposely sent any correspondence to my old address despite knowing my new one as they sent the original here.

    Also, have spoke to a solicitor friend who believes that if I go to court I should have a pretty good case against the decision.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 19th Jun 18, 10:14 PM
    • 19,267 Posts
    • 24,491 Thanks
    Redx
    I would wait and get your friend to take the photos and email them , no rush


    PE have 6 years to try a court case using MCOL and that small claims system has been that way since 1973 , so 6 years in E & W and 5 years in Scotland , for a court claim about anything at all, be it a faulty telly or a plumbers invoice, or a pcn for that matter


    you should email PE with your current address and add any reference like the pcn ref, copying yourself into the email so you have proof


    and you could issue an SAR under the new GDPR to get all data and photos etc that they hold on you and your case
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 20th Jun 18, 7:16 AM
    • 19,475 Posts
    • 30,790 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    and you could issue an SAR under the new GDPR to get all data and photos etc that they hold on you and your case
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5849784
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Silvercloud18
    • By Silvercloud18 20th Jun 18, 9:49 AM
    • 101 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    Silvercloud18
    Thank you I will have a look at that
    • Silvercloud18
    • By Silvercloud18 2nd Jul 18, 1:12 PM
    • 101 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    Silvercloud18
    Just received my letter before county court claim dated 27th June. Sorry for being ignorant but what do I do now is there another sticky I should be reading?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 2nd Jul 18, 1:14 PM
    • 19,475 Posts
    • 30,790 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Just received my letter before county court claim dated 27th June. Sorry for being ignorant but what do I do now is there another sticky I should be reading?
    Originally posted by Silvercloud18
    NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2.
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Silvercloud18
    • By Silvercloud18 2nd Jul 18, 1:21 PM
    • 101 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    Silvercloud18
    Thanks just found it on the laptop which is a lot clearer than on a mobile when searching!!

    I've looked at the examples and I think the letter I've been sent fits with the no information. It's a very basic letter and isn't even address to me but "dear sir/Madame" and then references the Beavis case as basically a reason not to go to court!

    Am I right, from reading the sticky, that I reply that this is not in the current guidelines as no information is given on the offence, whether it is against the registered keeper etc. My only thing is is it from parking eye themselves and not a jarg legal company. Does this matter or is it all still applicable?
    Last edited by Silvercloud18; 02-07-2018 at 1:54 PM. Reason: letters
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

101Posts Today

1,381Users online

Martin's Twitter