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  • FIRST POST
    • michaelmystery
    • By michaelmystery 5th Mar 18, 9:06 PM
    • 14Posts
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    michaelmystery
    Company didn't pay my 1 year accrued holiday pay
    • #1
    • 5th Mar 18, 9:06 PM
    Company didn't pay my 1 year accrued holiday pay 5th Mar 18 at 9:06 PM
    My contract for my company says:

    "It is a legal requirement that you take your holidays and holiday pay cannot be paid in lieu. However, as you accrue holiday pay throughout the year, in your final pay for your year (based on your start date), you will receive any outstanding accrued holiday pay to ensure you have received your full holiday pay entitlement for the year. Holiday entitlement cannot be carried over to the next holiday year. You will begin accruing holiday pay from the start of each holiday leave year"

    I joined the company on Feb 8th 2017 and it's now well beyond the 1 year mark, and I got no holiday pay.

    It's well over £1,000 in un-taken holiday.

    I asked the boss, he claimed he would add it on my next paycheque, and didn't.

    What is the next thing to do..? File a small claim?

    I've now quit the company by the way but did so well after Feb 8th, only a few days ago in fact.
Page 1
    • jobbingmusician
    • By jobbingmusician 5th Mar 18, 9:31 PM
    • 19,163 Posts
    • 19,645 Thanks
    jobbingmusician
    • #2
    • 5th Mar 18, 9:31 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Mar 18, 9:31 PM
    Before you take anyone to court, you need to send a Letter Before Action. Just write something like the following - remember to include a date by which you expect their reply.

    Dearest darling employer

    Letter Before Action - payment of holiday pay

    My contract for my company says:

    "It is a legal requirement that you take your holidays and holiday pay cannot be paid in lieu. However, as you accrue holiday pay throughout the year, in your final pay for your year (based on your start date), you will receive any outstanding accrued holiday pay to ensure you have received your full holiday pay entitlement for the year. Holiday entitlement cannot be carried over to the next holiday year. You will begin accruing holiday pay from the start of each holiday leave year"

    I would therefore have expected to receive payment for my holiday pay with my February pay. I raised this with [name of boss] who stated that he would add it on my next paycheque, but I have still not received this money.

    I calculate that in the year Feb 8 2017 - Feb 7 2018 I took x days' holiday (list any bank holidays you took here, and any holiday.) My annual entitlement, as detailed in my contract, is x days and so you owe me for y days. In addition, I worked from Feb 8 2018 to (date of leaving). I took no leave in this period so will have accrued x days for the current leave year.

    This totals x.x weeks. My weekly pay is [insert] so I look forward to repayment of a total of £(insert) by 31st March, or a clear explanation of why you feel these calculations are wrong, together with payment of the correct amount.

    If I do not receive payment, I will have no hesitation in escalating this matter to the Small Claims Court, so this document constitutes a letter before action.

    Hugs and kisses
    I'm the Board Guide on the Matched Betting; Referrers and Jobseeking & Training boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

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    • michaelmystery
    • By michaelmystery 5th Mar 18, 9:40 PM
    • 14 Posts
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    michaelmystery
    • #3
    • 5th Mar 18, 9:40 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Mar 18, 9:40 PM
    Yeah, I was going to do something like what you said above.

    But I'm really asking whether or not this quote from my contract is crystal clear or not.

    It seems pretty crystal clear to me that it means I am entitled to all the holiday that I didn't take.

    Do you agree that the wording of the contract is totally clear?

    What about this bit:

    "It is a legal requirement that you take your holidays and holiday pay cannot be paid in lieu."
    • jobbingmusician
    • By jobbingmusician 5th Mar 18, 9:46 PM
    • 19,163 Posts
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    jobbingmusician
    • #4
    • 5th Mar 18, 9:46 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Mar 18, 9:46 PM
    Wellllllllllllllllllll...........

    It could be construed that you MUST TAKE YOUR HOLIDAY, and are not allowed to carry it forward to the following year, and the wording of the contract simply applies to the last year - the year in which you leave, and in which any accrued, untaken holiday is paid to you. Employers are supposed to ensure that their employees take their holiday entitlement - if you choose not to take it, you lose it. This may, indeed, be what the employer argues in response, but they have weakened this position by saying that they *would* pay you.
    I'm the Board Guide on the Matched Betting; Referrers and Jobseeking & Training boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    The good folk of the matched betting board are now (I hope!) supporting Macmillan, in memory of Fifigrace. Visit
    https://www.gofundme.com/running-the-leeds-10k-for-macmillan
    • keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • By keepcalmandstayoutofdebt 5th Mar 18, 9:52 PM
    • 3,234 Posts
    • 1,697 Thanks
    keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • #5
    • 5th Mar 18, 9:52 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Mar 18, 9:52 PM
    Can you get a reference from these lot?

    I know it's no consolation but in 2015 I had to let just over 4 months holiday pay go (was sub'd out by the inhouse agency of a fairly small company) but they always respond to a reference request and have never begrudged being asked.

    If you know they definately won't give a reference then you have nothing to lose.
    "If you are caught in a rainstorm, once you accept that you'll receive a soaking, the only thing left to do is enjoy the walk"
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 5th Mar 18, 10:04 PM
    • 38,607 Posts
    • 35,332 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    • #6
    • 5th Mar 18, 10:04 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Mar 18, 10:04 PM
    My reading is that if you choose not to take any paid holiday during the first year of your employment, then you lost it. However I'm with jobbing that if they have said they will pay you, then they ought to do so.

    In future, book and take your leave entitlement throughout the year rather than saving it all up to the end. That often ends in tears.
    Still knitting!
    Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees,
    1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats 2 balaclavas for seamen, 1 balaclava for myself ...
    Current projects: Poppies, mohair cardigan pattern arrived and going strong!
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 5th Mar 18, 10:05 PM
    • 20,321 Posts
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    agrinnall
    • #7
    • 5th Mar 18, 10:05 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Mar 18, 10:05 PM
    Why didn't you take the holiday? I suspect that they will say there is a 'use it or lose it' rule in force, which is pretty standard.
    • michaelmystery
    • By michaelmystery 5th Mar 18, 10:15 PM
    • 14 Posts
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    michaelmystery
    • #8
    • 5th Mar 18, 10:15 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Mar 18, 10:15 PM
    The contract is just one big contradictory mess.

    It says you should take your holiday, but also says you will be paid the full amount if you don't.

    It says you can't be paid in lieu, but yet, that's the only way to get paid if they are not honoring their contract.

    It basically says you won't get paid it, but actually you will. Very confusing wording.

    I also know of people who have worked here, who actually did manage to hassle the company into paying out the money, so I could perhaps use that in my small claims case, although they still work there, so they may not want to speak out.

    I'm just going to have to go to a proper lawyer service and ask actual lawyers. Very annoying.
    • p00hsticks
    • By p00hsticks 5th Mar 18, 11:00 PM
    • 6,250 Posts
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    p00hsticks
    • #9
    • 5th Mar 18, 11:00 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Mar 18, 11:00 PM
    What was your annual holiday entitlement ?

    My general understanding is that you are expected to take holiday up to the minimum legal requirement (28 days including bank holidays) - legally your employer can't pay you in lieu for any such days not taken.

    However if your entitlement is more than 28 days then how the additonal days are treated if you don't take them will be up to the individual company T&Cs - you could lose them, carry them into the following year or get paid in lieu for them
    • ceegee
    • By ceegee 6th Mar 18, 4:48 AM
    • 817 Posts
    • 510 Thanks
    ceegee
    It's as clear as mud and contradictory. You can get a free half hour consultation with any solicitor who should be able to advise you about this. I've done similar myself in the past, it's a very useful service. Best to get a bit of legal advice before you go in "all guns blazing"!
    "Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow........"
    • BooJewels
    • By BooJewels 6th Mar 18, 6:38 AM
    • 278 Posts
    • 207 Thanks
    BooJewels
    I'm just going to have to go to a proper lawyer service and ask actual lawyers. Very annoying.
    Originally posted by michaelmystery
    Do you have legal cover included in your home contents insurance?

    That would probably cover employment disputes, ours does and we've used it [successfully] a couple of times for just this type of dispute. They would take action for you, but in the first instance, their telephone advice line might be enough to clarify what you need to do.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 6th Mar 18, 7:19 AM
    • 16,720 Posts
    • 41,339 Thanks
    FBaby
    Did you ask for holidays but they say no can't do at that time, and in the end, you just could never find the time?

    Or did you yourself decide that you didn't want the holidays without discussing it with your boss, maybe because you assumed you could get the money instead and you needed the money.

    Saying that, your boss seemed to have agreed for you to get paid. What did he say when you told him it hadn't shown on your pay cheque? It could be that he agreed, but HR/payroll didn't. Have you spoken to them to ask?
    • Spendless
    • By Spendless 6th Mar 18, 7:23 AM
    • 20,161 Posts
    • 33,387 Thanks
    Spendless
    I'm reading this as you were meant to take your holidays and if you didn't couldn't carry them over to a new (holiday) year.

    If you left part way through that year then anything you hadn't taken as holidays and were still entitled to would be paid for in your final wages.

    When did you holiday year run from and to? Common ones are Jan-Dec and April-March, but mine runs from the date I started in July.

    Did you not take any holidays at all from when when you started in Feb last year?
    • andydownes123
    • By andydownes123 6th Mar 18, 8:41 AM
    • 232 Posts
    • 312 Thanks
    andydownes123
    How come you didn't take the holiday?

    In my role, if you don't take it you lose it and it's up to me to book it.
    I can roll over one week IF I can prove that I tried to take it but couldn't fit it in (work over the summer). But only one week.

    Believe you me, there would be so many young lads here that would never take their holiday and claim the money back ! So it's there for a reason I guess.

    My old job, employees could 'sell' back their holidays on the first day of the holiday year. Many did...
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 6th Mar 18, 8:48 AM
    • 5,156 Posts
    • 8,382 Thanks
    Gavin83
    Has your boss actually said he wont pay it? Have you tried asking him where the money is?
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 6th Mar 18, 9:03 AM
    • 32,180 Posts
    • 19,332 Thanks
    getmore4less
    The problem you have is parts of the contract are not legal.

    AIUI the UK law currently you must take 20days(on a use or lose basis), can carry over 8 days(with agreement) get paid if you leave.

    There are carry over option for more where you are unable to take the holiday that currently include sick and maternity.

    There is a court case that is looking at other "unable to take" reasons, that may mean more back claims are possible beyond the current 3m and 3y time limitations.

    Taking the employer to court not so sure , maybe better to keep badgering to get paid or carry over and make sure you take this years holiday.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 6th Mar 18, 10:16 PM
    • 38,607 Posts
    • 35,332 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    AIUI the UK law currently you must take 20days(on a use or lose basis), can carry over 8 days(with agreement) get paid if you leave.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    I think the statutory minimum is 28 days (including the bank holidays) and none of this can normally be carried over or paid in lieu - exceptions would be if you'd not been able to take it all through sickness or maternity / paternity leave.

    if the employer gives more than the statutory minimum then they may allow you to carry it forward or sell it back.

    If you leave part way through the year then any holiday not taken should be paid, on a pro rata basis to the full year.
    Still knitting!
    Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees,
    1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats 2 balaclavas for seamen, 1 balaclava for myself ...
    Current projects: Poppies, mohair cardigan pattern arrived and going strong!
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 7th Mar 18, 9:21 AM
    • 32,180 Posts
    • 19,332 Thanks
    getmore4less
    I think the statutory minimum is 28 days (including the bank holidays) and none of this can normally be carried over or paid in lieu - exceptions would be if you'd not been able to take it all through sickness or maternity / paternity leave.

    if the employer gives more than the statutory minimum then they may allow you to carry it forward or sell it back.

    If you leave part way through the year then any holiday not taken should be paid, on a pro rata basis to the full year.
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue
    1.6 weeks(8days) of the statutory can be carried over
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/2079/regulation/2/made
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