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  • FIRST POST
    • justnotgoodenough
    • By justnotgoodenough 5th Mar 18, 1:46 PM
    • 20Posts
    • 22Thanks
    justnotgoodenough
    Clarity between Membership and Logo - IE: BPA/IPC
    • #1
    • 5th Mar 18, 1:46 PM
    Clarity between Membership and Logo - IE: BPA/IPC 5th Mar 18 at 1:46 PM
    Currently writing a response to a Letter Before Claim for a PCN.
    (And preparing a defence for Court Claim just in case).

    While researching the company who has issued the PCN they are displaying a BPA logo on their website in several places - but Ive checked and they are not a member.
    (They use IPC)

    I was wondering if this can form any part of my defence, Im not solely relying on this but every little thing may help if this ever reaches court.

    Or if not if I can at least report it or use it to cause a headache for the company in question even if it doesnt help me.
    Last edited by justnotgoodenough; 07-03-2018 at 11:20 AM.
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 5th Mar 18, 1:52 PM
    • 36,801 Posts
    • 83,276 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 5th Mar 18, 1:52 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Mar 18, 1:52 PM
    Parking scammers can be members of both organisations, just like you can be members of more than one motoring club etcetera. They can however only be a member of one Approved Operator Scheme (AOS) which is indicated by a roundel.
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    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Mar 18, 2:23 PM
    • 58,434 Posts
    • 71,939 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 5th Mar 18, 2:23 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Mar 18, 2:23 PM
    This is covered in the NEWBIES thread in the Q&A.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • justnotgoodenough
    • By justnotgoodenough 5th Mar 18, 2:37 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    justnotgoodenough
    • #4
    • 5th Mar 18, 2:37 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Mar 18, 2:37 PM
    Parking scammers can be members of both organisations, just like you can be members of more than one motoring club etcetera. They can however only be a member of one Approved Operator Scheme (AOS) which is indicated by a roundel.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    Thanks for the reply - so they can use the logo for BPA and IPCEven though the BPA doesn't have them listed anymore.

    (Sorry if this is an obvious question).
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 5th Mar 18, 2:46 PM
    • 3,761 Posts
    • 4,423 Thanks
    Johno100
    • #5
    • 5th Mar 18, 2:46 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Mar 18, 2:46 PM
    Thanks for the reply - so they can use the logo for BPA and IPCEven though the BPA doesn't have them listed anymore.

    (Sorry if this is an obvious question).
    Originally posted by justnotgoodenough
    There are two types of membership and logo. One is a corporate membership open to any parking company and the other is being in the Approved Operators Scheme (AOS) and parking companies will only either be with the BPAs or IPCs AOS scheme.

    • Redx
    • By Redx 5th Mar 18, 4:45 PM
    • 18,334 Posts
    • 23,225 Thanks
    Redx
    • #6
    • 5th Mar 18, 4:45 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Mar 18, 4:45 PM
    you need to learn the difference between being a corporate member as opposed to being both a corporate member as well as an AOS member

    the fact they are not listed in the AOS means just that, that they do not use the BPA arbitration service

    think of it as like having a Barclays bank account for "extras" and savings, and an HSBC account that has all the wages and direct debits and standing orders paid into and out of it

    no reason why a parking company cannot be in 2 , or 22 recognised trade bodies

    the shape of the logo is important , you never specified which one you saw

    and as mentioned earlier its been covered scores of times on here and is in the NEWBIES sticky thread

    if you quote that they are not in the BPA and they prove their corporate membership of the BPA, you are going to look a fool that hasnt done their homework properly

    even the MP,s slagged off the BPA about 5 weeks ago in the Houses of Parliament , saying they were as much use as a chocolate fireguard , hence the new Private Parking Bill

    concentrate on winning legal arguments, not on some side issue that has no relevance and makes no difference to your case
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Grimble
    • By Grimble 5th Mar 18, 6:56 PM
    • 409 Posts
    • 490 Thanks
    Grimble
    • #7
    • 5th Mar 18, 6:56 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Mar 18, 6:56 PM
    As a layman I park and see the BPA logo so think I am parking in a BPA members car park and can have access to POPLA if any problems, it should not be up to a member of the public to know the difference. The BPA should stop letting them use the sign on IPC members car parks.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Mar 18, 6:59 PM
    • 58,434 Posts
    • 71,939 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 5th Mar 18, 6:59 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Mar 18, 6:59 PM
    I checked the Newbies thread first and couldn't find a post relating to a company using a logo when they are no longer a member. I will check again now but was pretty sure I'd read everything.
    Did you read this Q&A from the NEWBIES thread, and all the other threads about BPA members (who are allowed to be BPA corporate members whilst also being in the IPC AOS):
    Q - ''My PCN is from UKCPM, or UKCPS, or Millennium (etc.) and it/the signs say they are both BPA & IPC members?''

    A - NO, THEY ARE NOT, AND PLEASE NO MORE THREADS ASKING THIS!
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5784929
    Different if you are saying the firm are using the BPA roundel when they are not AOS BPA members.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 5th Mar 18, 7:00 PM
    • 7,681 Posts
    • 7,394 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #9
    • 5th Mar 18, 7:00 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Mar 18, 7:00 PM
    As a layman I park and see the BPA logo so think I am parking in a BPA members car park and can have access to POPLA if any problems, it should not be up to a member of the public to know the difference. The BPA should stop letting them use the sign on IPC members car parks.
    Originally posted by Grimble
    Perhaps you need to make that point to Sir Greg Knight MP for consideration when the new Code of Practice is being compiled.

    Meanwhile, we are in a situation where the possibility for confusion exists and we need to cope with it.
    .
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 5th Mar 18, 7:08 PM
    • 3,005 Posts
    • 4,573 Thanks
    fisherjim
    As a layman I park and see the BPA logo so think I am parking in a BPA members car park and can have access to POPLA if any problems, it should not be up to a member of the public to know the difference. The BPA should stop letting them use the sign on IPC members car parks.
    Originally posted by Grimble
    The British Parking Association Limited, to give it its official title couldn't give two monkeys what you think, they are there, to protect and represent their paid up members, and keep the money rolling into their coffers!

    Which ever grade of membership a PPC has they are entitled to use that designated logo,if you think it is wrong try complaining to them and see how far you get.

    Though at the moment a complaint to you MP would be more productive.
    Last edited by fisherjim; 05-03-2018 at 7:12 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Mar 18, 9:27 PM
    • 58,434 Posts
    • 71,939 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Stick around, and keep this thread going. You might need us to help you win a court case.

    Currently writing a response to a Letter Before Claim for a PCN.
    (And preparing a defence for Court Claim just in case).
    Why not show us your draft reply to the LBCCC and change the thread title while you still can?

    Advanced edit (not possible if you are on a phone) and change the thread title to something like:

    Help with LBCCC response - name of PPC
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Mar 18, 10:18 PM
    • 58,434 Posts
    • 71,939 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The machine on the day wasnt working which is why I didnt buy a ticket or stay - although I cant prove that as it was another member of the public that contacted them to report the faulty machine - not me. And I have since found out there is another machine in the corner of the carpark (although dimly lit with no signs) .
    All sounds like a good basis for a defence. Frustration of contract, broken machine, so you left, simple. No contract accepted and the usual ten minutes grace period cannot apply where a PPC is enticing you in with an entrance sign offering pay and display, then not providing you with the means to make the payment, yet still capturing your car's VRN from the moment it crossed the site threshold.

    A reasonable step when one machine (or both, who knows?) are out of order, is to turn off the ANPR feed until the machines are fixed. Or as another reasonable alternative, cancel any PCN from people who took, say, under 15 minutes to park, try to pay, find out the machine was broken, look for another one, not find one due to the unlit location, get back in the car and leave.

    Now a PPC will take neither of those steps, but a Judge might well find in your favour due to the circumstances and I think they'd have a hard job convincing a court that your 14 minutes was unreasonable, and that you entered into a binding contract when in fact, THEY frustrated it.

    You do not have to prove things: just show evidence and be an honest witness as to the fact the machine was not working, and you could see no other in the dark, hence you probably spent half the time dealing with the broken machine and looking for another one, and mere minutes driving in/out, all of which explains the supposed 14 minutes captured by ANPR.

    Kelvin Reynolds BPA statement about grace periods (Google it) is a formal article from the original ATA - never mind the firm is now in the IPC, having forum-shopped for the place that offers them 80% won 'appeals' due to the way the system *works*. The article is from the industry's main and most well-known Trade Body and it explains that grace periods are part of good parking enforcement practice and that they are not set in stone, depending upon the circumstances.

    Have you watched the Parliamentary debate from last month? You need to.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 05-03-2018 at 10:21 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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