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    • Pilsthedoeboy
    • By Pilsthedoeboy 5th Mar 18, 1:31 PM
    • 10Posts
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    Pilsthedoeboy
    Care Home fees Means Test, how far do LAs go back
    • #1
    • 5th Mar 18, 1:31 PM
    Care Home fees Means Test, how far do LAs go back 5th Mar 18 at 1:31 PM
    Hi, Im new to the forum. My Mother is likely to have to go into a care home in the short term, at least. Despite trawling the Internet, Im yet to find anything that might tell me how far back LAs go when they seek financial information. My mum has gifted my kids and I money in the past for various things (have receipts for some) at a time when her going into care wasnt on the horizon in my eyes. Just interested if anyone out knows the answer to my question, or may have recently been through or are going through the process - Thanks in advance.
Page 1
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 5th Mar 18, 2:09 PM
    • 4,095 Posts
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    Malthusian
    • #2
    • 5th Mar 18, 2:09 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Mar 18, 2:09 PM
    It is not about "how far they go back". It is about whether the gifts were genuine or whether the aim was to make her eligible for help with her care needs.

    If ten years ago she gave her house into some convoluted trust arrangement because a dodgy salesman claimed it would be exempt from care fees, that would be deliberate deprivation even if it happened ten years ago. Whereas a genuine gift for her child to buy a car the month before she went into care might not be.

    If the facts are as you describe ("her going into care wasn!!!8217;t on the horizon") then you should have little to worry about.

    Is she eligible to have her care costs paid? If she has more than 23,250 in capital she will have to pay her care costs anyway.
    • Glen Clark
    • By Glen Clark 5th Mar 18, 2:26 PM
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    Glen Clark
    • #3
    • 5th Mar 18, 2:26 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Mar 18, 2:26 PM
    My understanding is that even if they do pay care home costs, they will usually recover them from the proceeds of the estate after death?
    It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. --Upton Sinclair
    • Pilsthedoeboy
    • By Pilsthedoeboy 5th Mar 18, 2:37 PM
    • 10 Posts
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    Pilsthedoeboy
    • #4
    • 5th Mar 18, 2:37 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Mar 18, 2:37 PM
    Thank you for your reply, as far as Im concerned all the past transactions were bone fida but some smart Alec from the LA might think they are not. For example the fact that my mum gifted money to pay for my wedding as Im the only child left, when she was living at home (as an 87 year old she has had health issues for a while so the likelihood of her needing to go into a care home was at the time, I guess the same as the next 87 year old) is not giving money away imho. Im just interested about whether the LA will ask to see the last three months bank statements, or six months, or 2 years or ten years etc ? Thanks if anyone knows.
    • Linton
    • By Linton 5th Mar 18, 2:47 PM
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    Linton
    • #5
    • 5th Mar 18, 2:47 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Mar 18, 2:47 PM
    The LA can go back as far as they want, but unless these assorted gifts were relatively recent and a significant proportion of her total wealth then it would seem somewhat pointless chasing the details of minor sums of money.
    • Glen Clark
    • By Glen Clark 5th Mar 18, 2:53 PM
    • 4,138 Posts
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    Glen Clark
    • #6
    • 5th Mar 18, 2:53 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Mar 18, 2:53 PM
    Thank you for your reply, as far as Im concerned all the past transactions were bone fida but some smart Alec from the LA might think they are not. For example the fact that my mum gifted money to pay for my wedding as Im the only child left, when she was living at home (as an 87 year old she has had health issues for a while so the likelihood of her needing to go into a care home was at the time, I guess the same as the next 87 year old) is not giving money away imho. Im just interested about whether the LA will ask to see the last three months bank statements, or six months, or 2 years or ten years etc ? Thanks if anyone knows.
    Originally posted by Pilsthedoeboy
    They don't need to ask you for statements - like the taxman they can get them electronically direct from your bank So you won't know how far they have gone back.
    It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. --Upton Sinclair
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 5th Mar 18, 3:10 PM
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    dunstonh
    • #7
    • 5th Mar 18, 3:10 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Mar 18, 3:10 PM
    Legally, there is no timescale that they are limited to. The longest I am aware of was nearly 20 years where someone had thought they were being clever but actually made it worse. In that case, it was clear that it was done to avoid assets being included in the means test.

    Reasonable gifting with valid reasons is not a problem in the means test. If it was done to deprive assets from the means test then it is a problem. It really boils down to that distinction.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • msallen
    • By msallen 5th Mar 18, 3:28 PM
    • 805 Posts
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    msallen
    • #8
    • 5th Mar 18, 3:28 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Mar 18, 3:28 PM
    When my father went into care a couple of years ago I had a meeting with someone from the LA and was asked to bring a years worth of paperwork. However everyone was aware before the meeting that he would be self funding so that's probably not representative.
    • Glen Clark
    • By Glen Clark 5th Mar 18, 3:37 PM
    • 4,138 Posts
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    Glen Clark
    • #9
    • 5th Mar 18, 3:37 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Mar 18, 3:37 PM
    Its not the question you asked, but maybe worth checking if she gets Attendance Allowance. My mum has to pay all her care fees, but still gets Attendance Allowance because it isn't means tested.
    It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. --Upton Sinclair
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 5th Mar 18, 4:10 PM
    • 29,245 Posts
    • 74,707 Thanks
    Mojisola
    My understanding is that even if they do pay care home costs, they will usually recover them from the proceeds of the estate after death?
    Originally posted by Glen Clark
    If a person is self-funding, they pay their own way out of their capital and income.

    If they don't have enough capital, the council pays but the resident hands over all their income bar around 20 a week to put towards the cost.

    If the person in care has enough capital to be self-funding but the money isn't accessible (typically, the value of a property), the council will set up a deferred payment scheme. The loan is repaid when the property is sold.

    If the person has misled the council about the capital they have, money will be pursued once the value of their estate is known.
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