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    • martin wilson
    • By martin wilson 5th Mar 18, 12:06 PM
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    martin wilson
    DPF Hell Van On Finance
    • #1
    • 5th Mar 18, 12:06 PM
    DPF Hell Van On Finance 5th Mar 18 at 12:06 PM
    Hi All new to forum and DPF filters, I have a van on finance I bought in April 17 it has been back to the garage around 8 times for a DPF regen which they have now said they will no longer do. My finance company arranged for the RAC to look over the vehicle and they confirmed the DPF filter was becoming blocked due to lack of mileage or motorway travel. I use my van for building work and admittedly only travel in short distances, my finance company say they wont do anything because the vehicle isn't faulty and Evans Halshaw are refusing to do anything which leaves me with only 2 options I can take the van for a run down the motorway every few days or pay for regen every few weeks. Has anybody else had the same problem with a vehicle on finance that is used for work? My finance company has also suggested asking Evans Halshaw for a part exchange but I cant find any petrol vans suitable and im also worried as to what price they will offer for my van.
Page 2
    • martin wilson
    • By martin wilson 5th Mar 18, 3:37 PM
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    martin wilson
    Will try the fuel thing by the way thanks
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 5th Mar 18, 4:47 PM
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    AdrianC
    Thanks all food for thought I have just taken it on a run down the motorway (sorry its a vivaro by the way 2014 ) I did it twice as my dash warning light says check emissions so in all I have covered 78 miles and it still has warning light, although at one point it changed to STOP injection fault. Is it me am I missing the point? when I grafted my nuts off to buy a van I just expected it to run ok and am now told I need to go for a drive down the motorway every few weeks.
    Originally posted by martin wilson
    Diesel particulate filters trap the soot that inevitably comes out of diesel exhausts. As you may know, diesels don't have a throttle, like petrols, restricting the air going into the engine. They can get as much air as they need - instead, the engine speed is controlled by the amount of fuel going in. More in, revs increase. Lots more in, revs increase faster. But "more in" means some is unburnt - and that's what the soot, the particulate matter, is. It's very, VERY bad for lungs.

    So in modern diesels (these have been around for nearly 20 years now, initially on a few vehicles, but almost all built within the last decade - how old was your last van?), they trap those particulates. Then, when the exhaust is really, REALLY hot, a bit more fuel is injected in to start them burning cleanly. The end result is no particulates, and better health for all those in urban environments.

    Pootling around towns does not get the exhaust hot enough. Short journeys do not get the exhaust hot enough. Hard work is what gets it hot - not necessarily just sustained lowish-load at a reasonable cruise speed. That's actually fairly unlikely to get it hot, not least because of the extra airflow. You're a builder - do you never drag a heavy trailer around, van loaded to the gunwales and on the bumpstops...? THAT's how to get an exhaust hot...

    honestly used quite a lot of diesel today driving down the motorway
    If that's true, then I think we might have a cause - it's probably overfuelling. Sitting on a motorway should use less fuel than pootling round town on short trips.

    ...not to mention having to take all the materials off my van roof and check tyre pressures
    Umm, why? Tyre pressures should be checked regularly anyway, and don't need to be any different for a bit of motorway, especially in a van that's regularly loaded. And isn't the stuff on the roof properly secured anyway? It's more likely to come off if you have to brake hard - more likely in town - than just sitting at 60-70ish.
    • martin wilson
    • By martin wilson 5th Mar 18, 5:29 PM
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    martin wilson
    Thanks for your comments I will take them on board, I have had several diesel vans starting with an escort van then a Nissan urvan then a transporter then a Vauxhall astravan I have never had a problem with any of them. As a builder that is constantly "pootling" around town I do secure my roof items well enough and always drive carefully however these items are best removed from the vehicle before hurtling down the motorway at 70mph. I appreciate the fumes are bad for health and would prefer to do LESS miles in my van rather than more hence the frustration. Not sure what you mean about the overfuelling? Thanks again.
    • martin wilson
    • By martin wilson 5th Mar 18, 5:31 PM
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    martin wilson
    Oh and I do check tyre pressures regularly but I did it again just to be sure
    • martin wilson
    • By martin wilson 5th Mar 18, 5:35 PM
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    martin wilson
    Just so we are on the same page I wasn't comparing diesel usage around town to motorway use I realise it will use more diesel pootling than motorway its all about the ADDITIONAL mileage that's concerning me.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 5th Mar 18, 5:36 PM
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    AdrianC
    By overfuelling, I mean that something's not happy with the van, causing it to put too much fuel in. This'd use more fuel, and create too much particulate.

    The garage have forced regeneration, but have they done a full range of diagnostics (and I don't just mean reading any fault codes)? Is this a Vx dealer, a technically competent indie, or just a second-hand-van sales place?

    BTW - "Hurtling"? 70 in a modern van? Let's leave the melodrama out. It helps nobody.
    Last edited by AdrianC; 05-03-2018 at 5:39 PM.
    • martin wilson
    • By martin wilson 5th Mar 18, 5:38 PM
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    martin wilson
    Evans Halshaw im not sure which category they fall into.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 5th Mar 18, 5:40 PM
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    AdrianC
    Vx dealer, but I leave "competent" as an exercise for the reader...

    I'd be looking for a well-reputed diesel or Bosch specialist.
    • martin wilson
    • By martin wilson 5th Mar 18, 5:58 PM
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    martin wilson
    Ha says the ONE who DOES the CAPITALS to add THE MELODRAMA
    Thank you anyway for feedback will give it a go.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 5th Mar 18, 6:07 PM
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    motorguy
    Thanks all food for thought I have just taken it on a run down the motorway (sorry its a vivaro by the way 2014 ) I did it twice as my dash warning light says check emissions so in all I have covered 78 miles and it still has warning light, although at one point it changed to STOP injection fault. Is it me am I missing the point? when I grafted my nuts off to buy a van I just expected it to run ok and am now told I need to go for a drive down the motorway every few weeks. I work on my own and work for every penny, honestly used quite a lot of diesel today driving down the motorway in icy conditions not to mention having to take all the materials off my van roof and check tyre pressures, really don't see how I can afford to do this every few weeks, plus hasn't worked.
    Originally posted by martin wilson
    Trust me on this - if its as clogged as you are being told, no amount of driving it about it going to allow it to clear itself now. Its longsince past that.

    You need to find a professional DPF cleaning company, get it taken off and cleaned out. Not a diesel specialist, not a Bosch injector specialist, but a DPF cleaning specialist.

    Once you've done that you'll need to give it regular long runs to help keep it clear.
    Last edited by motorguy; 05-03-2018 at 6:10 PM.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 5th Mar 18, 6:12 PM
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    motorguy
    And something to bear in mind - now your DPF is blocked its putting extra pressure on the turbo, EGR valve etc, so continuing to drive it as it could do it significant harm.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 5th Mar 18, 6:49 PM
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    arcon5
    That could prove to be a very costly mistake.

    Until we know exactly how strict the tighter new MOT rules on particulates are going to be, nobody should consider this.

    You can't "ungut" a gutted DPF - so if you have to reinstate your gutted one it's likely to be very expensive. New DPFs can be shockingly expensive, and the prices of secondhand ones are likely to go through the roof if the new rules turn out to be really strict.
    Originally posted by fwor
    Whatever the changes we can be certain of several things

    - they are not gonna start removing components to check for stuff like this

    - they are not going to suddenly mandate all stations install new testing equipment to check for the qty of particulate matter

    - they are not going to start hooking up to ecu to check for modifications

    Changes to the rules will revolve around further reasons to fail a test and will be visual.

    Whatever the changes it's highly unlikely to put an end to this practice.

    And all this is assuming the tester actually gives a hoot
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 5th Mar 18, 6:51 PM
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    AdrianC
    Whatever the changes we can be certain of several things
    Originally posted by arcon5
    Indeed. We can be certain that the current draft test manual is close to what'll actually happen in two months, if not actually definitive.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/671818/mot-inspection-manual-for-classes-3-4-5-and-7-from-20-may-2018-draft.pdf
    • martin wilson
    • By martin wilson 5th Mar 18, 7:03 PM
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    martin wilson
    Thanks motorguy looks like thatís what I will have to do begrudgingly, do you think changing to the more expensive fuel will help ? Along with giving it a good run every so often. Itís odd that Evans Halshaw have advised me to try and clear it on a long run, I have heard from two people now saying I could be causing more damage.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 5th Mar 18, 7:12 PM
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    motorguy
    Thanks motorguy looks like thatís what I will have to do begrudgingly, do you think changing to the more expensive fuel will help ? Along with giving it a good run every so often. Itís odd that Evans Halshaw have advised me to try and clear it on a long run, I have heard from two people now saying I could be causing more damage.
    Originally posted by martin wilson
    I personally dont think its fuel. Whilst a fuel with extra additives will keep the cylinder head and possibly injectors cleaner, it most likely wont hit the DPF.

    FWIW i bought a Passat TDI at a year old. 16K miles on it and within a fortnight the DPF light was on. I ran a cleaning solution through it, to no avail. It went to the dealers three times and they forced DPF regens before they escalated it to VW who authorised replacing the whole emissions unit (DPF + cat?) at what would have been a retail cost of £2,250.

    The cleaning fluid did no good, i did long runs at high revs to try to clear it but ultimately the DPF was too far gone. Had it not been under warranty there is not a mission i'd have paid for a new unit, i'd have had it taken off and professionally cleaned.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 5th Mar 18, 9:26 PM
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    arcon5
    Indeed. We can be certain that the current draft test manual is close to what'll actually happen in two months, if not actually definitive.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/671818/mot-inspection-manual-for-classes-3-4-5-and-7-from-20-may-2018-draft.pdf
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    Nice link. So looking like a mere visual inspection for it having been tampered with. Not really gonna end the practice then.
    • John-K
    • By John-K 6th Mar 18, 8:01 AM
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    John-K
    Have the dpf gutted and mapped out of the ecu. Probably looking at the best part of £500 though but cheaper than a dpf
    Originally posted by arcon5
    The filter is there for reasons of public health, you should not be removing it, it does an important job.

    Edited to add, I!!!8217;ve seen on another post of yours that you are upset that poor people are held to the same charges for polluting vehicles as the better off.

    Being poor does not give you carte blanche to be antisocial.

    It does, however, often work the other way round. A lesson for you in there perhaps?
    Last edited by John-K; 06-03-2018 at 8:07 AM.
    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 6th Mar 18, 9:48 AM
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    arcon5
    The filter is there for reasons of public health, you should not be removing it, it does an important job.
    Originally posted by John-K
    That's a debate for another day. The simple fact is the government encouraged people to buy diesels for a good while then turned round and started penalising diesels for polluting.
    Road users are penalised from left right and centre so do I have any sympathy where people cut corners because of !!!! technology's like dpfs? Not at all.

    Edited to add, I!!!8217;ve seen on another post of yours that you are upset that poor people are held to the same charges for polluting vehicles as the better off.

    Being poor does not give you carte blanche to be antisocial.

    It does, however, often work the other way round. A lesson for you in there perhaps?
    Your point?

    Or more so what relevance is it?
    Last edited by arcon5; 06-03-2018 at 9:54 AM.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 6th Mar 18, 10:15 AM
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    AdrianC
    That's a debate for another day.
    Originally posted by arcon5
    No, not really. It's very relevant to this thread.

    The simple fact is the government encouraged people to buy diesels for a good while then turned round and started penalising diesels for polluting.
    Let's look at the facts.

    CO2 levels were (and still are) perceived as a problem. Taxation focussed on CO2 - which naturally favoured diesels.

    Particulate levels became an issue. Technology addressed that - but at the cost of reliability, for those for whom a diesel was not necessarily the most appropriate choice.

    NOx levels are currently an issue. These have increased because of the measures to address previous issues.

    It's a simple fact that you're putting a certain chemical make-up in, and you're going to get roughly the same combustion byproducts out. They can be tickled-about, to change the compounds, but the same atoms are coming out in one form or another.

    The OP seems to have two issues. One is that he's bought a used vehicle with a pre-clogged DPF. The second is that his usage, long-term, may not be suitable for a DPF-equipped vehicle. Since the type of vehicle he requires is currently mostly available with DPFs, he may need to change his usage pattern to prevent the current problem recurring, once it's been properly fixed. He's complaining about the cost of fuel, but that's a lot cheaper than replacing DPFs periodically. Both are a lot cheaper than the public health consequences of not addressing urban pollution.
    • TheMoonandBack
    • By TheMoonandBack 6th Mar 18, 12:18 PM
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    TheMoonandBack
    Am I the only one who thinks you have been sold a van that is not fit for purpose ?
    If the DPF problems are so well known then why did Evans Halshaw sell you a van for low mileage use ? Why do virtually none of the manufacturers produce petrol engine versions of transit sized vans ? (I am sure some manufacturers may well do, but there are not that many available in the uk so please do not turn this into a thread correcting me).
    Personally I would seek legal advice with a view to returning the vehicle or at least getting the dpf replaced.
    Last edited by TheMoonandBack; 06-03-2018 at 12:23 PM.
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