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  • FIRST POST
    • SharkBite
    • By SharkBite 5th Mar 18, 10:37 AM
    • 40Posts
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    SharkBite
    "Fitted" Wardrobes being left behind by vendors
    • #1
    • 5th Mar 18, 10:37 AM
    "Fitted" Wardrobes being left behind by vendors 5th Mar 18 at 10:37 AM
    Hey

    We are currently in the midst of buying our first home. Everything is progressing nicely and we should be exchanging very soon.

    However, we have a small (though not deal breaking) issue with regards to the "fitted" wardrobes the vendors want to leave behind. As far as I am concerned they are free standing, ugly and we do not want them.

    I thought the term fitted wardrobe was defined as a wardrobe built into a wall or alcove sitting flush. These wardrobes stick out from the wall and are fitted to the extent that the skirting butts up against it.

    We received the inventory of items being taken or left behind and we were mildly shocked to find out the big ugly wardrobes are staying. We have already negotiated that we will purchase most of the kitchen appliances which is fine, but we get the feeling the vendors may not want the hassle of removing the wardrobes. We spoke to the Vendors EA and they confirmed that they will be staying.

    (As I'm typing it sounds a bit trivial)

    What's our position? Can we insist that they are taken? Are they actually fitted? We equally wouldn't want the hassle of moving in and having the hassle of getting rid.

    We don't want to ruffle and feathers. However, we also do not want to be lumbered unnecessarily with the job of removing the wardrobes ourselves because the vendors do not want to. We get the feeling they would like to take very little to their new house.

    All advice welcome. Thanks.
Page 1
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 5th Mar 18, 10:46 AM
    • 2,064 Posts
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    Tom99
    • #2
    • 5th Mar 18, 10:46 AM
    • #2
    • 5th Mar 18, 10:46 AM
    You can ask but you can't insist. It's not a big deal so I would not get worked up about it.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 5th Mar 18, 10:47 AM
    • 17,362 Posts
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    AdrianC
    • #3
    • 5th Mar 18, 10:47 AM
    • #3
    • 5th Mar 18, 10:47 AM
    Rough rule of thumb is whether they would fall off if you could pick the house up and shake it upside-down.

    So if they're screwed to the walls and/or ceiling, and the skirting is mated up to them, they're fitted. Either way, it doesn't really matter, because everything prior to exchange says they're staying. You can insist they take them if you want, yes. And they can refuse. What then? Are you going to let the sale fall through over something so petty?

    If they said they were taking them, and then they didn't, you may have a case to reclaim the cost of disposal. But let's be honest, that's minimal. It'll take any half-way competent DIYer an hour or three to remove them and break them up into easily-tippable-size chunks. It'll take longer to make good what's left behind.
    • need an answer
    • By need an answer 5th Mar 18, 10:47 AM
    • 409 Posts
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    need an answer
    • #4
    • 5th Mar 18, 10:47 AM
    • #4
    • 5th Mar 18, 10:47 AM
    Ugly they may be but I guess if you ask for them to be removed what lies behind them or indeed would you want that and the skirting boards to be made good?

    In my experience the term fitted usually means it stays and in honesty if you are not planning on using the wardrobes then its quite satisfying taking a hammer to them and probably a lot less difficult to get ridof than you think.
    in S 28 T 20 F 42
    out S 36 T 24 F 32
    2017 -32
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 5th Mar 18, 10:47 AM
    • 7,641 Posts
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    davidmcn
    • #5
    • 5th Mar 18, 10:47 AM
    • #5
    • 5th Mar 18, 10:47 AM
    Removing them is negotiable whether or not they're fitted (and we don't know whether they're fitted or not - are they screwed into the walls/floor?).

    Surely just a relatively trivial job to dismantle them and take them to the tip either way?
    • dannim12345
    • By dannim12345 5th Mar 18, 10:49 AM
    • 244 Posts
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    dannim12345
    • #6
    • 5th Mar 18, 10:49 AM
    • #6
    • 5th Mar 18, 10:49 AM
    Hi, I would say they are fitted if they are fixed to the wall & or floor ‘properly’. I would say they don’t need to be recessed or in an alcove to be fitted.

    If they won’t take them, put them on gumtree (or similar) for free and somebody will mostly likely collect them. I got rid of so much stuff this way!
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 5th Mar 18, 10:49 AM
    • 2,525 Posts
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    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • #7
    • 5th Mar 18, 10:49 AM
    • #7
    • 5th Mar 18, 10:49 AM
    First just say you don't want them.

    If they still want to leave them, and you are not happy, ask for a price reduction to cover your time and costs in removing them.

    If they won't agree to that then you have the choice to walk away or to continue with the purchase.
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 5th Mar 18, 10:54 AM
    • 2,064 Posts
    • 1,389 Thanks
    Tom99
    • #8
    • 5th Mar 18, 10:54 AM
    • #8
    • 5th Mar 18, 10:54 AM
    If they won't agree to that then you have the choice to walk away or to continue with the purchase.
    Originally posted by ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    Over a wardrobe!
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 5th Mar 18, 11:01 AM
    • 7,825 Posts
    • 14,292 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    • #9
    • 5th Mar 18, 11:01 AM
    • #9
    • 5th Mar 18, 11:01 AM

    I thought the term fitted wardrobe was defined as a wardrobe built into a wall or alcove sitting flush. These wardrobes stick out from the wall and are fitted to the extent that the skirting butts up against it.
    Originally posted by SharkBite
    My wardrobes are not really fitted to an alcove, but they are properly fixed to the walls. A reasonable test for if they are a 'fixture and fitting' (generally left with the property) or a free standing piece of furnitre (please leave the property empty of your furniture and personal effects when you leave or I will charge you for the house clearance) is: pull them away from the wall.

    If something snaps because there was more than a couple of screws holding them in place, they were probably fitted. If they just fall over as you try to drag them away from the wall, they were probably freestanding.

    You mention that the skirting board 'butts up against them' Do you mean that when fitting the wardrobe they have scribed out a piece so that they follow the shape of the skirting and use the maximum width available between the walls into which they are fixed in place? Sounds like the sort of thing you might do when 'fitting' wardrobes into a space, and would render them less useful to take to somewhere else that didn't have the exact same wall shape/ size/ skirting convention. Or do you mean they are just squashed into the space right next to the skirting? That's not 'fitting' it is just putting some furniture into a corner of the room.

    We received the inventory of items being taken or left behind and we were mildly shocked to find out the big ugly wardrobes are staying. We have already negotiated that we will purchase most of the kitchen appliances which is fine, but we get the feeling the vendors may not want the hassle of removing the wardrobes. We spoke to the Vendors EA and they confirmed that they will be staying.
    If they are not truly fitted wardrobes then tell the EA that your offer price to buy the kitchen appliances was before you knew you would have to spend money removing their furniture which they unilateraly decided to leave. So you want £50 off. Then arrange to book in advance for your council's refuse collection service to come and do a bulky goods removal for £30.

    If such a service doesn't exist in your area, spend £50 to rent a van and take them to the tip or a charity shop and tell your vendors you'll be paying £100 less for the kitchen stuff due to the unexpected cost/ hassle.

    What's our position? Can we insist that they are taken?
    If they are not fixtures and fittings then it's not unreasonable to tell them that you need them to remove all furniture and waste because you want vacant possession with no occupants or other people's furniture in it. Tell them if you don't get vacant possession you will bill them for storage and disposal and don't intend to spend your time shopping around for the cheapest disposal service.

    We don't want to ruffle and feathers.
    Too right, but as you noted, being too polite to say you're unhappy is the way to ensure you get the worst end of the deal!

    I would say that now you've discovered that they want to leave the wardrobes you'd like to come round again and look at them and measure them. In doing so, see if they are actually fitted (other than by a solitary screw to stop them falling over), and then if they are not, say you don't want them, but you will be happy to dispose of them and knock £x off the price of the white goods if they don't want the hassle of disposing of them, themselves.
    • SharkBite
    • By SharkBite 5th Mar 18, 11:01 AM
    • 40 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    SharkBite
    Thanks for the replies.

    It's certainly not a deal breaker or a condition on which we would walk away or continue. I'm just trying not to be lumbered with getting rid of stuff they do not want to get rid of themselves.

    I like the idea of smashing them up and in either event what lies beneath and behind them will have to be made good by us anyway. I will have a closer look how "fitted" they are next time I'm there.

    I think I'll initially mention that we wouldn't like them left behind and go from there.
    • SharkBite
    • By SharkBite 5th Mar 18, 11:10 AM
    • 40 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    SharkBite
    My wardrobes are not really fitted to an alcove, but they are properly fixed to the walls. A reasonable test for if they are a 'fixture and fitting' (generally left with the property) or a free standing piece of furnitre (please leave the property empty of your furniture and personal effects when you leave or I will charge you for the house clearance) is: pull them away from the wall.

    If something snaps because there was more than a couple of screws holding them in place, they were probably fitted. If they just fall over as you try to drag them away from the wall, they were probably freestanding.

    You mention that the skirting board 'butts up against them' Do you mean that when fitting the wardrobe they have scribed out a piece so that they follow the shape of the skirting and use the maximum width available between the walls into which they are fixed in place? Sounds like the sort of thing you might do when 'fitting' wardrobes into a space, and would render them less useful to take to somewhere else that didn't have the exact same wall shape/ size/ skirting convention. Or do you mean they are just squashed into the space right next to the skirting? That's not 'fitting' it is just putting some furniture into a corner of the room.

    If they are not truly fitted wardrobes then tell the EA that your offer price to buy the kitchen appliances was before you knew you would have to spend money removing their furniture which they unilateraly decided to leave. So you want £50 off. Then arrange to book in advance for your council's refuse collection service to come and do a bulky goods removal for £30.

    If such a service doesn't exist in your area, spend £50 to rent a van and take them to the tip or a charity shop and tell your vendors you'll be paying £100 less for the kitchen stuff due to the unexpected cost/ hassle.

    If they are not fixtures and fittings then it's not unreasonable to tell them that you need them to remove all furniture and waste because you want vacant possession with no occupants or other people's furniture in it. Tell them if you don't get vacant possession you will bill them for storage and disposal and don't intend to spend your time shopping around for the cheapest disposal service.

    Too right, but as you noted, being too polite to say you're unhappy is the way to ensure you get the worst end of the deal!

    I would say that now you've discovered that they want to leave the wardrobes you'd like to come round again and look at them and measure them. In doing so, see if they are actually fitted (other than by a solitary screw to stop them falling over), and then if they are not, say you don't want them, but you will be happy to dispose of them and knock £x off the price of the white goods if they don't want the hassle of disposing of them, themselves.
    Originally posted by bowlhead99
    Very comprehensive reply thank you!

    The wardrobes are backed right against the wall and the skirting board has been cut at the bottom to allow the full height of the wardrobe to be against the wall (no gap). I think I will have to have a more in depth look at them.

    I'm very cynical at times and because we like the house so much I'm reluctant to annoy anyone in case is all gets a but sour.
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 5th Mar 18, 11:15 AM
    • 15,717 Posts
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    pinkshoes
    Our house came with several ugly wardrobes.

    I just took a photo and put them on Facebook free site. I was surprised at how many wanted them!

    Otherwise, just pay the council £30 to take them.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 5th Mar 18, 11:16 AM
    • 2,525 Posts
    • 4,033 Thanks
    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    Over a wardrobe!
    Originally posted by Tom99
    You don't seem to understand the words "you have the choice". I suggest you listen and think more and post fewer emojis.
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 5th Mar 18, 11:17 AM
    • 3,000 Posts
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    Smodlet
    We cannot see them so cannot tell whether or not they are fitted. If they are, would you prefer the vendors to remove them and then have the hassle of trying to claim for the damage they might do in the process? Or would you prefer to remove them yourself so you can take all the care you like to minimise any damage?

    Not that it is remotely relevant but I seriously dislike fitted wardrobes; they limit the placement of furniture so much and are often ugly.
    Last edited by Smodlet; 05-03-2018 at 12:06 PM.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 5th Mar 18, 11:20 AM
    • 9,527 Posts
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    theartfullodger
    Wonder if they are hiding a problem - damp, cracking, woteva....
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 5th Mar 18, 11:23 AM
    • 3,000 Posts
    • 6,033 Thanks
    Smodlet
    Wonder if they are hiding a problem - damp, cracking, woteva....
    Originally posted by theartfullodger
    Let's hope not, for SharkBite's sake.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • SharkBite
    • By SharkBite 5th Mar 18, 11:28 AM
    • 40 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    SharkBite
    Wonder if they are hiding a problem - damp, cracking, woteva....
    Originally posted by theartfullodger
    Oh dear don't start!
    • warby68
    • By warby68 5th Mar 18, 11:36 AM
    • 934 Posts
    • 9,555 Thanks
    warby68
    In return for leaving some items we DID want, we allowed our vendors to also leave a few others we didn't. They were downsizing and moving long distance so it saved them work and money. Win/win.

    Could you negotiate something similar ie not pay for the white goods if you decide the wardrobes are not actually fitted just not wanted and hard to move!

    A large wardrobe was actually one thing we agreed they could leave..... and we ended up using it for another 7 years! Then it finally got the sledgehammer treatment.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 5th Mar 18, 11:53 AM
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    Silvertabby
    Wonder if they are hiding a problem - damp, cracking, woteva....
    Originally posted by theartfullodger
    .... carpet fitted around the wardrobe, not under it ....
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 5th Mar 18, 11:58 AM
    • 4,948 Posts
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    EachPenny
    You're FTB's so do you already have furniture to fill every room? They might not be your preferred choice of wardrobe, but being able to start using them the second you get the keys might make your removal day ever so slightly easier.

    If you are going to have to get work done to 'make good' the wall where the wardrobes were, then the last thing you'll need is to have the room filled up with your own furniture by the removals people. Decorating is never a clean job, and clothes and furniture will end up filthy if left in the room.

    So give yourself some breathing space on removals day, then sort out dumping them (or giving away via Freecycle/Facebook) when you have a bit more time to think.

    Alternatively, is there a shed or garage you intend to use for storage? Even if the wardrobes won't fit in as they are, the wood they are made from can be used as shelving. Before taking a hammer to them just check the prices of shelves in your local DIY store.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
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