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  • FIRST POST
    • JadeKyle100
    • By JadeKyle100 4th Mar 18, 10:54 PM
    • 4Posts
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    JadeKyle100
    Accident in company vehicle
    • #1
    • 4th Mar 18, 10:54 PM
    Accident in company vehicle 4th Mar 18 at 10:54 PM
    Hiya,

    Not entirely sure if this is the correct section to post in as this is my first post..

    I work as a home carer, caring for people in their own homes on behalf of a company. On my way in on Wednesday when the snow came down particularly heavy I had a phone call telling me to go and pick up the compan 4x4 and leave my work car at the office, which I did.

    I used the vehicle all day and then into Thursday with no issue. On my way to return the vehicle to the office I slipped on ice on a residential road and managed to slide into a fence - crushing the fence and front panels on the 4x4.

    When I told work what had happened they told me to see if it's cheaper for me to go through my insurance or pay for the work to be done seperately.. I got in touch with someone who I know fixes cars and he told me it could cost up to 1000! That's more than my monthly part-time salary!

    When I mentioned this to my Manager, stating theres no way I can afford this, she said "oh we'll set up a monthly payment plan"

    Does this seem fair, because it really doesn't feel like it, especially as I didn't ask to use the 4x4, there was no pre-warning that damage would cost me, and seeing as I was one of very few battling for miles across the snow to carry out my job of looking after others.

    On my own car I'm fully comp, driving another takes it down to third party only - which my work knew about.

    Surely they claim through their own business insurance?
Page 1
    • jobbingmusician
    • By jobbingmusician 4th Mar 18, 10:59 PM
    • 19,141 Posts
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    jobbingmusician
    • #2
    • 4th Mar 18, 10:59 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Mar 18, 10:59 PM
    My gut feeling is that the company 4 x 4 should be insured by the company for their employees to drive. If you were asked to drive it, there is NO WAY that you should suddenly be expected to provide the insurance for this vehicle! Was insurance discussed at all when you were asked to drive the vehicle? You say that your work knew that your own insurance would provide only 3rd party cover.

    I'm absolutely not an expert, but I agree with you - they should claim through their own business insurance.

    How long have you worked there? I ask in a worried tone of voice, because any scummy employer who suddenly expects YOU to pay THEIR insurance bill is the sort of scummy employer who might try to get rid of you if you rock the boat.
    I'm the Board Guide on the Matched Betting; Referrers and Jobseeking & Training boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

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    • JadeKyle100
    • By JadeKyle100 4th Mar 18, 11:10 PM
    • 4 Posts
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    JadeKyle100
    • #3
    • 4th Mar 18, 11:10 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Mar 18, 11:10 PM
    That's correct as I actually was without a car for a couple days last month and asked to use it - which is when they asked whether I would be allowed to drive it by my insurers. I had to sign a document about use of the 4x4 and can't remember reading any part about damage to it.

    I've worked there for over a year now and they're normally great people to work for - so their response to this shocked me and I'm wondering whether they are unfamiliar of the procedure given that this is the first incident to occur like this.

    When it happened I just assumed I was responsible, but having spoke to others nearly all have said that it should be the companys responsibility to fix it, not mine..
    • jobbingmusician
    • By jobbingmusician 4th Mar 18, 11:15 PM
    • 19,141 Posts
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    jobbingmusician
    • #4
    • 4th Mar 18, 11:15 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Mar 18, 11:15 PM
    I think they should have given you a copy of the document you signed - ask them for a copy now! I suppose it may be that this included an agreement that you would insure the vehicle (but with any luck it didn't.......)

    In any case, it's not clear that the document you signed when they lent you the vehicle because you asked to use it while your car was unavailable would apply when THEY asked you to use it (presumably because of snow?)
    I'm the Board Guide on the Matched Betting; Referrers and Jobseeking & Training boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    The good folk of the matched betting board are now (I hope!) supporting Macmillan, in memory of Fifigrace. Visit
    https://www.gofundme.com/running-the-leeds-10k-for-macmillan
    • Queenbean
    • By Queenbean 5th Mar 18, 4:40 PM
    • 7 Posts
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    Queenbean
    • #5
    • 5th Mar 18, 4:40 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Mar 18, 4:40 PM
    If you were asked to drive the company car then they should go through there business insurance to cover the repairs.
    • Katapolt
    • By Katapolt 5th Mar 18, 5:14 PM
    • 194 Posts
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    Katapolt
    • #6
    • 5th Mar 18, 5:14 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Mar 18, 5:14 PM
    they should have fleet insurance, or if they only have the one vehicle it should be covered under company insurance.

    definitely not your insurance! dont let them bully you
    FTB 2017
    Currently dealing with a Quarter Life Crisis
    • Kayalana99
    • By Kayalana99 5th Mar 18, 5:54 PM
    • 3,407 Posts
    • 6,093 Thanks
    Kayalana99
    • #7
    • 5th Mar 18, 5:54 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Mar 18, 5:54 PM
    That's correct as I actually was without a car for a couple days last month and asked to use it - which is when they asked whether I would be allowed to drive it by my insurers. I had to sign a document about use of the 4x4 and can't remember reading any part about damage to it.

    I've worked there for over a year now and they're normally great people to work for - so their response to this shocked me and I'm wondering whether they are unfamiliar of the procedure given that this is the first incident to occur like this.

    When it happened I just assumed I was responsible, but having spoke to others nearly all have said that it should be the companys responsibility to fix it, not mine..
    Originally posted by JadeKyle100

    Ah...this is now much more complicated. So they asked you if you were insured to drive it through YOUR insurance, it sounds like you've said yes? Some insurance companies let you drive other cars so it's a valid question but unlikely to be allowed if it comes under Business use (that said was it actually for the Business or transport to and from work? That might mean your insurance validates it..?!)


    I think there response is actually reasonable considering they have let you use the 4x4 on the basis you are covered under your own car insurance..I mean why else would they ask you if you are insured to drive it, if in the event of an accident you would use there's? I know it seems unfair but you did agree to this before hand...
    Last edited by Kayalana99; 05-03-2018 at 5:56 PM.
    People don't know what they want until you show them.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 5th Mar 18, 7:24 PM
    • 10,654 Posts
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    lincroft1710
    • #8
    • 5th Mar 18, 7:24 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Mar 18, 7:24 PM
    You might find you are only covered for 3rd party losses when you drive a car not owned by you on your insurance. In other words any damage you cause to other vehicles/property etc is covered, but damage to the vehicle you are driving is not.
    • littleboo
    • By littleboo 5th Mar 18, 7:38 PM
    • 563 Posts
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    littleboo
    • #9
    • 5th Mar 18, 7:38 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Mar 18, 7:38 PM
    As above, your insurance will probably only provide 3rd party cover for another vehicle. What was said about insurance when you asked to use the vehicle previously? It would be foolish of them to let it be driven on a 3rd party policy as if the vehicle was written off by you, they would be reliant on you being able to pay the full costs of a replacement.
    • Wee_bri
    • By Wee_bri 5th Mar 18, 8:23 PM
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    Wee_bri
    You'll surely be insured with the company's insurance rather than going through your own?
    have you ever handed in a copy of your licence etc. to them?
    for them to allow you to drive a vehicle of theirs without insuring you I'd say that's a breach of their duty of care. and likewise if they allowed you to drive their vehicle under the assumption that you were insuring yourself without having proof from you that you were actually insured at all.
    I'd not be paying it nor putting it though my insurance
    Last edited by Wee_bri; 05-03-2018 at 8:28 PM.
    • John-K
    • By John-K 6th Mar 18, 7:00 PM
    • 654 Posts
    • 1,009 Thanks
    John-K
    You'll surely be insured with the company's insurance rather than going through your own?
    have you ever handed in a copy of your licence etc. to them?
    for them to allow you to drive a vehicle of theirs without insuring you I'd say that's a breach of their duty of care. and likewise if they allowed you to drive their vehicle under the assumption that you were insuring yourself without having proof from you that you were actually insured at all.
    I'd not be paying it nor putting it though my insurance
    Originally posted by Wee_bri
    If you are going to invent a duty of care, why not go one further and invent a duty for the company to also buy them a new puppy and a slap-up meal?
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 6th Mar 18, 8:46 PM
    • 1,473 Posts
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    Manxman in exile
    OP - you may be better off getting this moved to the Insurance or Motoring boards.


    FWIW my MiL has benefited greatly from care workers visiting her home and trying to help her function normally.


    It's a bl00dy travesty if carers' employers are going to start arguing the toss over insurance liabilities. The employer's insurance ought to be sorting this out.


    I'm only 60 but I'm beginning to think of "easy ways out". In 20 years time I don't want to be dependant on a "caring" company that can't give their employees accurate insurance advice. God help us all...
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 6th Mar 18, 10:50 PM
    • 2,664 Posts
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    Red-Squirrel

    I'm only 60 but I'm beginning to think of "easy ways out". In 20 years time I don't want to be dependant on a "caring" company that can't give their employees accurate insurance advice. God help us all...
    Originally posted by Manxman in exile

    What would be better is if you use your vote and your voice while you are young and fit and can, to improve the situation for vulnerable people.
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 7th Mar 18, 12:00 PM
    • 1,473 Posts
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    Manxman in exile
    What would be better is if you use your vote and your voice while you are young and fit and can, to improve the situation for vulnerable people.
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel

    Yes but I don't see it happening. I've voted in every election since 1979 and I've never voted for the winning side! Apparently taxpayers don't want to pay for proper social or healthcare.


    I worked in a mental health trust for 25 years and I'm really pessimistic about the future. We want people to stop smoking and drinking (= a loss in duty revenue) so they'll live longer ( = more elderly people with complex health problems and dementia) but we seem to have no long term plan as to how we are going to deal with this.


    I also used to be involved in NHS workforce planning (always an embarrassing admission!) and we still seem to be dealing badly with the same problems as 20 years ago. We don't have enough nurses. Why can't we train sufficient numbers in this country? Because it's cheaper to poach trained nurses from poorer countries.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 7th Mar 18, 12:21 PM
    • 2,664 Posts
    • 7,134 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel
    Yes but I don't see it happening. I've voted in every election since 1979 and I've never voted for the winning side! Apparently taxpayers don't want to pay for proper social or healthcare.
    Originally posted by Manxman in exile
    You voted Tory in 97? Jesus!
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 7th Mar 18, 2:15 PM
    • 1,473 Posts
    • 1,116 Thanks
    Manxman in exile
    You voted Tory in 97? Jesus!
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel

    DEFINITELY NO!!! I've never voted Tory! Although I did consider doing so in 2010 to get rid of that idiot Gordon Brown. After he'd "saved the world" by bailing out the bankers (and their bonuses!), my MH trust had to find savings of 20% over five years. People think it was the Torys who started this, but it was Brown's labour government.


    The first time I didn't vote labour was in 1997. That's because I'm a "socialist" and I certainly did not want to vote for Tony Blair. He was clearly going to be a disaster.


    I became involved in NHS workforce planning after 1997 - I can tell you, the government did not have a clue. They created (and funded!) new training places but did not have the joined up thinking to ensure that trusts had sufficient revenue funding to employ the newly qualified staff. Our local university provider pointed this out, (they didn't want to train people for jobs that wouldn't exist), but government didn't want to know - it was "political".


    And don't get me started on PFI. Yes, it was a Tory creation, but Blair and Brown just continued it without restraint.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 7th Mar 18, 3:55 PM
    • 6,487 Posts
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    TBagpuss
    OP, I think the first thing to do is to ask your employers for a copy of the doumcnet you were asked to sign, and to check your contract and any manual or hand book you have to see whether this situation is covered.
    If it isn't, then ask them why they feel you should be liable

    If you were driving under your own insurance then you are already going to suffer as you will have a claim.

    I think it is fairly common for people who drive their employers vehicle to be held responsible for damage caused by their own negligence, so there may be an issue over whether the accident was caused by your negligence (i.e. were you driving badly for the conditions)

    Are you a member of a Union? Do you have legal cover on your home insurance that would enable youto access some advice?

    If not, I would suggest that in the first instance, you go back to your manager and say that as you were driving the vehicle under their instructions and as part of your job, you believe that it is their responsibility to cover the costs of all repairs, and that you are not in a position to pay or to agree to any deduction from your wages for that purpose, and see what they say.

    if they still say you should pay, ask them to provide copies of the relevant part of your contract
    • JadeKyle100
    • By JadeKyle100 8th Mar 18, 10:20 AM
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    JadeKyle100
    Hi guys,
    Thanks for the advice and comments so far. I wasn't sure whether to put this under work/insurance or motoring!

    They knew I was driving under my own third party insurance, I don't believe I'm one of the named drivers on their own company insurance for the car.
    Since then I got paid yesterday and as I didn't go into the office the day prior to discuss moving forward they informed me that they deducted a sum from my wages until the matter has been dealt with. Now that I'm pretty sure they cannot do! I never agreed to that, though the director said bring in the signed copy of the contract, so I'm assuming there's a clause in there.

    After I didn't respond well to that message my Manager told me 'off the record' that the director wasn't going to make me liable for it or pay towards it, but that I need to speak with her.

    They're both sending me really mixed messages and if it's true that I won't be expected to pay towards the repairs then what reason is there to deduct a penny from me?!
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 8th Mar 18, 3:53 PM
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    Savvy_Sue
    They knew I was driving under my own third party insurance, I don't believe I'm one of the named drivers on their own company insurance for the car.
    Originally posted by JadeKyle100
    We simply don't let anyone drive our works van without being on the company insurance, and I can imagine their insurance company is going to ask some awkward questions if they try to claim.

    In a way it's a shame that you'd borrowed it previously NOT under their instruction, it does muddy the waters somewhat.

    You do realise that you need to tell your own insurance company that you had an accident, even if you're not claiming from them?
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