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  • FIRST POST
    • Greenlady
    • By Greenlady 3rd Mar 18, 6:47 PM
    • 37Posts
    • 17Thanks
    Greenlady
    Bought a very sick puppy
    • #1
    • 3rd Mar 18, 6:47 PM
    Bought a very sick puppy 3rd Mar 18 at 6:47 PM
    So, finally gave in to my love of Labradors and agreed to get one. Noticed he was skinny when visiting but he was quite lively, so I wasn't majorly concerned and I was assured that vet was quite happy with his development. Breeder did saymas he wasn't getting much with his litter mates, he was being fed spearately.

    Once I got him home he was still lively but wouldn't eat much (I raised it with the breeder in writing who admitted he was a bit fussy and she did make scrambled egg for him somtimes with bits of tuna - so it wasn't really the litter mates taking his food). I tried that but still not that successful.

    We picked him up on a sunday and his second jab was scheduled for coming Friday. Again, as he was lively, no need to rush him.

    Sadly, once we got there for the jab the vet said he'd not be getting his booster as he had a bad murmur that needed immediate investigation.

    I kept the breeders updated, as asked, and she made all the right noises "Oh no, we didn't know. I'm so sorry. Keep us posted."

    He was referred to another clinic and from there to a specialist clinic.

    He has tricuspid valve dysplasia with right side heart failure, ascitis and pulmonic stenosis.

    Incredibly long story short and few thousand pounds later (he has free kennel club insurance but that is probably void as I know now the breeders vets had already found the murmur and that monitoring was required).

    We'd not have brought him home if we'd known. It's been very distressing because we got attached to the puppy very quickly. She did offer to have him back and refund the money but admitted she had no money to treat him (nor do we, but can't contemplate not to!)

    What would you do in these circumstances? Head is all over the place.
Page 1
    • Lavendyr
    • By Lavendyr 3rd Mar 18, 8:15 PM
    • 2,088 Posts
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    Lavendyr
    • #2
    • 3rd Mar 18, 8:15 PM
    • #2
    • 3rd Mar 18, 8:15 PM
    I'm really sorry I have little advice, it sounds like an awful situation. At least the breeder has offered to refund you - ultimately they should never have sold him to you, so there might be some further monetary compensation there but it doesn't make up for the bond that you forge with a pet. Ultimately I guess you need to decide whether to hand him back (where you know he won't be treated) or keep him and give him the best life you can, treatment or no.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 3rd Mar 18, 9:19 PM
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    Red-Squirrel
    • #3
    • 3rd Mar 18, 9:19 PM
    • #3
    • 3rd Mar 18, 9:19 PM
    I'd expect the breeder to give you a refund and let you keep him. If she won't pay for treatment then her offering to take him back is just a death sentence isn't it? Do you have it all in writing from her? Even just texts?

    It might be worth consulting a solicitor to see if its worth pursuing her for your costs based on her misrepresentation. I don't believe for a minute she hasn't got any money, how many lab puppies does she sell every year? She's certainly not a responsible ethical breeder so she'll be doing it for the cash and she wouldn't bother if she wasn't making any!
    • Zandy_23
    • By Zandy_23 4th Mar 18, 8:09 AM
    • 59 Posts
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    Zandy_23
    • #4
    • 4th Mar 18, 8:09 AM
    • #4
    • 4th Mar 18, 8:09 AM
    It's such a hard decision to turn your dog back to it's seller as you've already created a special relationship. If it's not that hard for you, I'd say keep your dog and give him the best life. Money is just something you'll be able to earn along the way.
    • Greenlady
    • By Greenlady 5th Mar 18, 2:41 PM
    • 37 Posts
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    Greenlady
    • #5
    • 5th Mar 18, 2:41 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Mar 18, 2:41 PM
    I'm at home today so I've printed all facebook messages we have exhanged where she assures me the vet checked him and all was OK (after we brought him home and raised concerns over his lack of interest in food).

    I don't believe they don't have any money either. I don't want any profit, just not go bankrupt over this - a situation we should have never have been handed, given that their vet had already spotted the murmur. Yes, we could hand him back (and they'd put him to sleep or medicate until his heart stops - he is already in heart failure- or we could do the same). Either way, we have no way out of this without great emotional cost.

    I'm just waiting on insurance decision and then I'm getting a solicitor (I have received legal help from my work but I need to things to move once I get that decision).
    • catkins
    • By catkins 5th Mar 18, 3:09 PM
    • 5,516 Posts
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    catkins
    • #6
    • 5th Mar 18, 3:09 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Mar 18, 3:09 PM
    Oh how sad. That's awful of the breeder and, as you say, she must have known about his heart.

    I don't think I could hand him back to someone who is not going to try and help him in the slightest (may be a dog breeder but doesn't sound like a dog lover to me).

    Definitely speak to a solicitor. Would you think about setting up a just giving page? I know someone who had an ill dog whose treatment cost over 10,000. She set one up and lots of people donated including myself.
    The world is over 4 billion years old and yet you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie
    • bugslet
    • By bugslet 5th Mar 18, 3:13 PM
    • 6,128 Posts
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    bugslet
    • #7
    • 5th Mar 18, 3:13 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Mar 18, 3:13 PM
    I'd not be able to hand him back either.

    What is his prognosis and the costs? Can he be treated, or is it a case of making him comfortable for the time he is with you?
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 5th Mar 18, 3:22 PM
    • 2,664 Posts
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    Red-Squirrel
    • #8
    • 5th Mar 18, 3:22 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Mar 18, 3:22 PM
    I'm at home today so I've printed all facebook messages we have exhanged where she assures me the vet checked him and all was OK (after we brought him home and raised concerns over his lack of interest in food).

    I don't believe they don't have any money either. I don't want any profit, just not go bankrupt over this - a situation we should have never have been handed, given that their vet had already spotted the murmur. Yes, we could hand him back (and they'd put him to sleep or medicate until his heart stops - he is already in heart failure- or we could do the same). Either way, we have no way out of this without great emotional cost.

    I'm just waiting on insurance decision and then I'm getting a solicitor (I have received legal help from my work but I need to things to move once I get that decision).
    Originally posted by Greenlady
    Have you got something in writing from the other vet confirming that they found the murmur (and had told the breeder about it) before she sold the puppy to you?
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 6th Mar 18, 1:28 AM
    • 9,037 Posts
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    teddysmum
    • #9
    • 6th Mar 18, 1:28 AM
    • #9
    • 6th Mar 18, 1:28 AM
    Your not wanting to give up a sick puppy, to which you would obviously have become attached, is the emotional blackmail used by puppy farmers, who also don't care about the dogs and can always breed more (unfortunately),but they don't even offer a refund.
    • bertiewhite
    • By bertiewhite 6th Mar 18, 9:05 AM
    • 1,064 Posts
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    bertiewhite
    how many lab puppies does she sell every year? She's certainly not a responsible ethical breeder
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel
    puppy farmers
    Originally posted by teddysmum
    They're bold statements, gained from just a couple of posts.

    I'm at home today so I've printed all facebook messages we have exhanged where she assures me the vet checked him and all was OK
    Originally posted by Greenlady
    The breeder says her vet checked the puppy and all was ok

    given that their vet had already spotted the murmur.
    Originally posted by Greenlady
    so how do you know this? Can you find out who the original vet was and ask them yourself?
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 6th Mar 18, 2:52 PM
    • 6,487 Posts
    • 8,414 Thanks
    TBagpuss
    Very difficult situation. IS the dog registered with the kennel club? If so, then it might be worth contacting them, if only to let them know.

    You can speak to a solicitor to see whether you would be entitled to claim back from the breeder the money you have spent so far, however I suspect that because they have offered to take back the puppy and refund you, you wouldn't be able to claim any future costs.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 6th Mar 18, 3:27 PM
    • 2,664 Posts
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    Red-Squirrel
    They're bold statements, gained from just a couple of posts.
    Originally posted by bertiewhite
    They've admitted they wouldn't be paying to treat the pup if they did take it back, so I'm happy to stand by my judgement.
    • adandem
    • By adandem 7th Mar 18, 7:22 PM
    • 3,482 Posts
    • 4,715 Thanks
    adandem



    so how do you know this? Can you find out who the original vet was and ask them yourself?
    Originally posted by bertiewhite
    I'm assuming the details would be on the vaccination record?
    What a terrible situation, not going to change anything but how did you source the breeder? Did you do any research on them prior to getting your puppy? It may help to find out what type of breeders they are, a legal case might threaten any future trade. I would hazard a guess that the pups parents weren't screened or health checked.
    You could also contact the Kennel Club, they are meant to promote ethical breeding and welfare.
    Hope you can find a solution.
    The only thing I would say, as hard as it is, just be prepared to know when enough is enough for the puppy.
    • Greenlady
    • By Greenlady 7th Mar 18, 8:19 PM
    • 37 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Greenlady
    Have you got something in writing from the other vet confirming that they found the murmur (and had told the breeder about it) before she sold the puppy to you?
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel
    Yes, I have the records from the breeders vets, which had to be sent to our vets as our vets needed previous history for their information and to send to insurer. I have it in black & white. The insurer has now refused to cover any expenses on the basis that he has a pre-existing condition (shocking that the insurance isn't bothered that they were lied to, but I guess it's all about the money - I thought Kennel Club meant security. Nope. We were left on our own).
    • Greenlady
    • By Greenlady 7th Mar 18, 8:33 PM
    • 37 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Greenlady
    I'm assuming the details would be on the vaccination record?
    What a terrible situation, not going to change anything but how did you source the breeder? Did you do any research on them prior to getting your puppy? It may help to find out what type of breeders they are, a legal case might threaten any future trade. I would hazard a guess that the pups parents weren't screened or health checked.
    You could also contact the Kennel Club, they are meant to promote ethical breeding and welfare.
    Hope you can find a solution.
    The only thing I would say, as hard as it is, just be prepared to know when enough is enough for the puppy.
    Originally posted by adandem
    I have contacted Kennel Club who assured me they'd launch an investigation.

    I wanted a Labrador but never went looking for ads or anything (felt I should really get a rescue, etc - we had a Lab x Collie that looked almost 100% Labrador, and when it comes to cross breeds you just can't get another one of the same look easily as they all vary so much (it was a moment of weakness of wanting to have a similar dog, that's all).

    Long story short, someone came across someone whose dog was having a litter of Labradors (the words Kennel Club registred, 5 weeks free insurance, vaccinated felt very reassuring). The contact wasn't even for me, it was for smeone else. I half heartedly enquired (still struggling with loss of previous one). We met the parents, paid two visits.

    So, no, not enough homework was done. I didn't even think so much homework needed to be done (too late now). Parents were not checked.

    The puppy is happy. He's playful but has less stamina than a healthy puppy. He had a couple of very lethargic days. Bottom line, he seems unaware.

    We spoke to specialist and we were surprised to hear that they think that by placing a stent on his heart this will give him a close to normal life (initially they said two operations, but now seem to think this one will allow him to have a normal life).

    I'm sort of skeptical but I'm reassured by different sources he is in the hands of the best professionals.
    • Greenlady
    • By Greenlady 7th Mar 18, 8:40 PM
    • 37 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Greenlady
    Very difficult situation. IS the dog registered with the kennel club? If so, then it might be worth contacting them, if only to let them know.

    You can speak to a solicitor to see whether you would be entitled to claim back from the breeder the money you have spent so far, however I suspect that because they have offered to take back the puppy and refund you, you wouldn't be able to claim any future costs.
    Originally posted by TBagpuss
    I contacted solicitor today and I expect you could be right.

    However, I'm hoping that the fact that there was an intention to deceive us, the insurance and continue the farce even after they found he was ill, gives us grounds to sue. (Written statements such as "vet checked him and he was OK").

    It's one thing a breeder finding out they sold a sick puppy. It's quite another knowing beforehand and setting up insurance with false information. Just giving him back won't do.
    • adandem
    • By adandem 7th Mar 18, 8:45 PM
    • 3,482 Posts
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    adandem
    I hope they can sort him out with the stent, that would be great news. Everything crossed.
    • Aced2016
    • By Aced2016 7th Mar 18, 8:49 PM
    • 233 Posts
    • 466 Thanks
    Aced2016
    This is so sad I'm really sorry for you ! Here's hoping this operation goes well and he brings you years of joy.

    In all fairness this is happening to often, my mother in law and sister in law have been breeding their poor little dogs to the extent of 3 litters in 12 months. It's disgusting hence why I take little to do with them. Sadly these people just see signs at everyone else's expense.

    The law needs to get tougher as its far to common now. I would seek legal advice to recoup money, as her outgoings are very little to care for the pups so what has she done with the money for all the other puppies ?

    And the fact that she bare faced lied about this is vile ! Horrible woman and not a responsible dog breeder !
    Last edited by Aced2016; 07-03-2018 at 8:52 PM.
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 7th Mar 18, 10:50 PM
    • 9,037 Posts
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    teddysmum
    The KC is not interested in much except income; even their accredited breeders have the status by self certification (I knew someone who got one in hot water after filming and getting vet backup that they had cruel practices and didn't do the 'mandatory' health testing).


    They were not interested when a work friend showed that someone was falsifying pedigree papers (One dog of her breeding and one I bought from this person ) and took years to be convinced that puppy farmers were making out impossible pedigrees ( it's impossible for two Blenheim cavaliers to produce a litter of all four of the breed's colour patterns;they can only produce Blenheims ie red and white) ,but they now ban certain applications .


    However, I believe the KC does have rules about how many litters a female is allowed to produce in a timescale (one per year?) and should refuse any extra applications for registration
    • Greenlady
    • By Greenlady 9th Mar 18, 9:01 AM
    • 37 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Greenlady
    I already got legal advice and I'm also taking this to the media (my next task). Need to see who I'm taking this, to.

    They wrote they don't have money to compensate us. Let a judge decide that now.

    But, as I dig deeper yes, this is happening more and more often, sadly.

    It was my first pedigree purchase and it's my last. I sincerely thought I was with people Kennel Club approved and therefore I was not fueling puppy farming type of practices. I visited them twice before coming over to pick him up, they volunteered even before we asked that the vet was so happy with him and he was doing well. As legal advisor said, we couldn't have done much more to ascertain we were getting a healthy pup .
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