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  • FIRST POST
    • Adrian1999
    • By Adrian1999 3rd Mar 18, 11:31 AM
    • 26Posts
    • 11Thanks
    Adrian1999
    Received Final demand Total Parking Solutions
    • #1
    • 3rd Mar 18, 11:31 AM
    Received Final demand Total Parking Solutions 3rd Mar 18 at 11:31 AM
    Good news and bad news.

    Good news, my previous appeal was successfully won.

    However, I have gained another PCN, of which I promptly appealed within the 14 days as outlined in this forum through their online route. However, my appeal appears not to have been 'acknowledged' and I am now on my final demand of '60'.

    Just like my original offence, there was no confirmation of the appeal and I am without the option to appeal now. I have a screenshot of the completed appeal however, it does not contain any reference material to the PCN or date/time. The only date stamp is of the screenshot being taken.

    What are my possible options?

    Many thanks.
    Last edited by Adrian1999; 03-03-2018 at 2:07 PM.
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 3rd Mar 18, 11:45 AM
    • 36,628 Posts
    • 82,975 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 3rd Mar 18, 11:45 AM
    • #2
    • 3rd Mar 18, 11:45 AM
    How did you appeal, online, by email, or by post?

    If the former two, did you take screenshots, or can you do a retro search to find the submission on your pooter? I am not sure how to do this myself, but it may be possible. Perhaps the techy forum might be able to help.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 03-03-2018 at 11:50 AM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Adrian1999
    • By Adrian1999 3rd Mar 18, 11:54 AM
    • 26 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    Adrian1999
    • #3
    • 3rd Mar 18, 11:54 AM
    • #3
    • 3rd Mar 18, 11:54 AM
    In the moment I knew I should of taken a screenshot, of which I did and I have just found. Sadly, I've realised it has basically no discerning indicators to which appeal. Except that my appeal has been submitted and the file date it was taken, of which was when this appeal was made.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 3rd Mar 18, 12:07 PM
    • 36,628 Posts
    • 82,975 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #4
    • 3rd Mar 18, 12:07 PM
    • #4
    • 3rd Mar 18, 12:07 PM
    I suggest you complain to the BPA and tell them you have proof that the keeper submitted an appeal.
    I would also complain to the HB telling them your appeal has been refused lost, and tell them what MPs have said about his unregulated scam.

    You should also complain to your MP.

    These are some of the comments made by the MPs in Parliament concerning the unregulated parking industry (Feb 2018):

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

    ''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

    These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your HB and MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if he wants further information about this scam.

    Do you have a Union Rep who can help?
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Adrian1999
    • By Adrian1999 3rd Mar 18, 12:22 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    Adrian1999
    • #5
    • 3rd Mar 18, 12:22 PM
    • #5
    • 3rd Mar 18, 12:22 PM
    What would be the best medium to contact the BPA? Contact them through their general 'info@britishparking.co.uk' email or put through a POPLA?

    I am currently not part of a union, but may join one if need be.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 3rd Mar 18, 12:27 PM
    • 36,628 Posts
    • 82,975 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #6
    • 3rd Mar 18, 12:27 PM
    • #6
    • 3rd Mar 18, 12:27 PM
    What would be the best medium to contact the BPA? Contact them through their general 'info@britishparking.co.uk' email or put through a POPLA?

    I am currently not part of a union, but may join one if need be.
    Originally posted by Adrian1999
    The former. You can't appeal to PoPLA unless the PPC rejected your appeal and gave you a PoPLA code.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Adrian1999
    • By Adrian1999 3rd Mar 18, 1:09 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    Adrian1999
    • #7
    • 3rd Mar 18, 1:09 PM
    • #7
    • 3rd Mar 18, 1:09 PM
    This is so frustrating to encounter this level of intentional misleading action. I have appealed, and they return no email of confirmation; the confirmation page after the appeal presents no respective reference material only a confirmation (of which I have a print screen of). Now they DEMAND this. I have emailed the BPA but the whole waiting around with nothing to do is stressful.

    Is there any worth of attempt to email TPS directly as the keeper and re-iterating the appeal?

    Many thanks.
    Last edited by Adrian1999; 03-03-2018 at 1:29 PM.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 3rd Mar 18, 1:33 PM
    • 36,628 Posts
    • 82,975 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #8
    • 3rd Mar 18, 1:33 PM
    • #8
    • 3rd Mar 18, 1:33 PM
    I think you should copy the PPC in to your complaint to the BPA just so they know what is going on. Focus on the fact that you have confirmation they received the initial appeal.

    As for the Union, they tend not to like people who join to sort out an existing problem, although they should already be aware of this. If they are any good, they should be pushing the HB about it already. Perhaps you could ask some of your colleagues who are Union members if they have contacted their reps.

    I used to be a Unite Rep, and got involved on this forum when two of my members got PCNs, one private and one council. I am happy to say I got them both overturned thanks to the expert help I received here.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Adrian1999
    • By Adrian1999 3rd Mar 18, 2:05 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    Adrian1999
    • #9
    • 3rd Mar 18, 2:05 PM
    • #9
    • 3rd Mar 18, 2:05 PM
    I think you should copy the PPC in to your complaint to the BPA just so they know what is going on. Focus on the fact that you have confirmation they received the initial appeal.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    Sorry what do you mean by PPC? and I have already sent my email to the BPA.

    Many thanks.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Mar 18, 1:13 AM
    • 57,473 Posts
    • 71,066 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The acronym 'PPC', as well as all other forum acronyms, and the correct complaint email for the BPA (which is NOT the general contact one) are both in post #5 of the NEWBIES thread.

    I have already sent my email to the BPA.
    You haven't (you have sent it to a black hole), so re-send it once you've read the NEWBIES thread more thoroughly.

    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Adrian1999
    • By Adrian1999 4th Mar 18, 11:06 AM
    • 26 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    Adrian1999
    Here is the email I have written. I have included the DVLA & BPA as identified on the newbies thread. I have also included every email I could find presented by TPS.

    Should I mention anything about information handling in relation to 'Section 10 Notice under the DPA'.

    The thread has a lot of information and with the navigation makes it difficult to interpret, so please suggest anything or refer me to read specific sections if I need too.

    Thank you all for your continued support.

    To whom it may concern,

    The following complaint has been disseminated between the DVLA, the BPA and the respective Private Parking Company (PPC).

    I am the keeper of the vehicle which received this purported 'parking charge'. The complaint is in regards to the Parking Charge Notice (PCN): ########, which transpired on the DD.MM.YYYY and the appeal was submitted on the DD.MM.YYYY.

    This is a written complaint regarding the actions of the PPC Total Parking Solutions (otherwise TPS), of which they have appeared to breach their code of practice set out by the British Parking Association when enforcing an appeal.

    The appeal was submitted within 14 days as outlined in the first Parking Charge Notice letter. However, this has appeared to go without acknowledgement. Resulting in further PCNs and a final demand notice being received. There is evidence of the appeal in the form of an electronic print screen of the confirmation message after the point of appeal submission. However, no receipt of acknowledgement to the keeper was received, as required by Section B standard 22.8 of the BPA Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice. A requirement of acknowledgement includes the failure to respond with the rejection of the original appeal. These actions infringe BPA standards of operator standards;

    22.4 If a driver or keeper appeals a parking charge you must review the case and decide whether to: !!!8226; uphold the parking charge and explain why it was issued and should therefore be paid, or !!!8226; reduce or cancel the charge and take no further management action other than informing the driver.

    22.6 When you receive a appeal about the issue of a parking charge, you must stop work on processing the charge immediately. You must not increase the charge until you have replied to the appeal.

    22.8 You must acknowledge or reply to the appeal within 14 days of receiving it. If at first you only acknowledge the appeal, or your reply does not fully resolve it, normally we would expect you to seek the additional information you require from the motorist and accept or reject the appeal in writing not more than 35 days after the information required to resolve it has been received from the motorist. It is acknowledged that in exceptional circumstances, an investigation into a appeal may take longer than 35 days after such information has been received and in these instances the motorist must be advised accordingly and given a date by which they can expect a resolution. If this date cannot be achieved then the motorist must be written to again and a revised resolution date agreed. We may require you to demonstrate that you are keeping to these times.

    22.12 If you reject an appeal you must: !!!8226; tell the motorist how to make an appeal to IAS. This includes providing a template !!!8216;notice of appeal!!!8217; form or a link to the appropriate website for lodging an appeal and a valid 10-digit verification code. Even if the verification code is automatically printed on an enclosed appeal form, it must still be in a prominent position on the first page of the rejection letter. !!!8226; give the motorist a reasonable amount of time to pay the charge before restarting the collection process. We recommend that you allow at least 35 days from the date you rejected the challenge.


    If the respective appeal was rejected a POPLA code was not supplied to further challenge the issue.

    I will be taking into consideration to raise this appeal with my local MP, union representative, and the client landowner of whom the PPC is accountable to will be contacted.

    Sincerely,

    ...........
    Last edited by Adrian1999; 04-03-2018 at 4:14 PM.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 4th Mar 18, 5:23 PM
    • 36,628 Posts
    • 82,975 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    I've only had a quick look, but I think the preamble is a bit flowery and not particularly concise, but I think you have the main points there.

    You just need to make sure that it goes to the right people and will actually be seen.

    Underline or otherwise highlight the word "must" wherever it appears, and state that the PPC has failed to do this.
    Include the screen grab showing that the initial appeal was submitted and acknowledged.

    Don't "consider" contacting your MP. Tell them you are are going to do it.

    Point out the words used by MPs about the unregulated parking industry, especially the comments about the BPA, and ask them how they intend to change the perception of MPs and the motoring public with regards to rogue parking companies such as this one.

    Please do complain to your MP.

    These are some of the comments made by the MPs in Parliament concerning the unregulated parking industry (Feb 2018):

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

    ''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

    These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if he wants further information about this scam.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 5th Mar 18, 8:39 AM
    • 9,209 Posts
    • 8,979 Thanks
    The Deep
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences.

    Parking Eye, Smart and a smaller company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (who take hundreds of these cases to court, and nearly always lose), who have also been reported to the regulatory authority.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind most of these companies may well be put out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Adrian1999
    • By Adrian1999 6th Mar 18, 11:56 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    Adrian1999
    I have received a reply through the 'black hole' general email to my unsupported email.
    A key point of their response intrigued me;
    We are unable to prove if any mail has been received or not by either party unless sent by recorded delivery.
    Recorded delivery and appeals submitted online? no email has been received by the PPC, the confirmation screen upon appeal submission lacks any form of referencing material, PCN number or date.

    Here is my altered email:

    To whom it may concern,

    The following complaint has been disseminated between the DVLA, the BPA and the respective Private Parking Company (PPC).

    The keeper of the vehicle received this purported 'parking charge'. The complaint is in regards to the Parking Charge Notice (PCN): #######, which transpired on the DD/MM/YYYY and the appeal was submitted on the DD/MM/YYYY.

    The PPC Total Parking Solutions (otherwise TPS), of which they have appeared to breach!their code of practice set out by the British Parking Association (BPA) when enforcing an appeal.

    The appeal was submitted within 14 days as outlined in the first Parking Charge Notice letter. The initial appeal has appeared to go without acknowledgement let alone a form of rejection. Resulting in further PCNs and a final demand notice being received. There is evidence of the appeal in the form of an!electronic print screen of the confirmation message after the point of appeal submission (find attached).

    The print screen is of the confirmatory page after the submission of the appeal. This shows the lack of referencing material, PCN number or date of the confirmation to its respective appeal; or any form of "recorded delivered" correspondence between TPS and the keeper. A requirement outlined in a previous communication with BPA.

    This is another reflection of the remarks made by the minister of parliament Sir Greg Knight, "Appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices". A segment of not only his but a on going dialogue in tackling and disbanding PPC businesses such as Total Parking Solutions as result of their "cowboy" practices that lack any form of adequate regulation posed by the British Parking Association.

    There has been no receipt of acknowledgement to the keeper was received, as required by Section B standard 22.8 of the BPA Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice. A requirement of acknowledgement includes the failure to respond with the rejection of the original appeal. These actions infringe BPA standards of operator standards;

    22.4 If a driver or keeper appeals a parking charge you must review the case and decide whether to: uphold the parking charge and explain why it was issued and should therefore be paid, or reduce or cancel the charge and take no further management action other than informing the driver.

    22.6 When you receive a appeal about the issue of a parking charge, you must stop work on processing the charge immediately. You must not increase the charge until you have replied to the appeal.

    22.8 You must acknowledge or reply to the appeal within 14 days of receiving it. If at first you only acknowledge the appeal, or your reply does not fully resolve it, normally we would expect you to seek the additional information you require from the motorist and accept or reject the appeal in writing not more than 35 days after the information required to resolve it has been received from the motorist. It is acknowledged that in exceptional circumstances, an investigation into a appeal may take longer than 35 days after such information has been received and in these instances the motorist must be advised accordingly and given a date by which they can expect a resolution. If this date cannot be achieved then the motorist must be written to again and a revised resolution date agreed. We may require you to demonstrate that you are keeping to these times.

    22.12 If you reject an appeal you must: tell the motorist how to make an appeal to IAS. This includes providing a template notice of appeal form or a link to the appropriate website for lodging an appeal and a valid 10-digit verification code. Even if the verification code is automatically printed on an enclosed appeal form, it must still be in a prominent position on the first page of the rejection letter. give the motorist a reasonable amount of time to pay the charge before restarting the collection process. We recommend that you allow at least 35 days from the date you rejected the challenge.

    If the respective appeal was rejected a POPLA code was not supplied to further challenge the issue.

    This appeal will be raised with the keepers local MP, union representative, and the client landowner of whom the PPC is accountable to. The current dialogue in the house of commons of the poor practice of PPCs and its regulating body the BPA will be stressed upon in the subsequent communication.


    Sincerely,
    One key change I have included is the removal of wording that indicates my own involvement. Instead I have portrayed it was best as, "the keeper". Is this appropriate?

    Any other thoughts would be very welcome.

    Many thanks


    P.S - I have tried my best to removal text errors that have appeared through pasting from a mac based program, apologises.
    Last edited by Adrian1999; 07-03-2018 at 12:02 AM. Reason: text copy and pasting errors
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Mar 18, 12:27 AM
    • 57,473 Posts
    • 71,066 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    As long as you attach the letters/screenshot proving appeal/acknowledgement, then the BPA should investigate. But that email looks too long, the fact that you received no POPLA code is lost among the wordiness!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 20-03-2018 at 10:24 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Adrian1999
    • By Adrian1999 7th Mar 18, 10:01 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    Adrian1999
    Okay, I will trim it down, make a more focusing point towards the POPLA.

    I do have one doubt which is in regards to my print screen of the appeal confirmation. As I said, there is no referencing detail or PCN code on the print screen, which I feel is done intentionally.
    • Adrian1999
    • By Adrian1999 20th Mar 18, 10:20 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    Adrian1999
    Apparently, the email correspondence submitted with the appeal may be incorrect, as presented in a response by the PPC. A screenshot has been provided with an 'appeal response' to the keeper at an incorrect email address.

    Advice on how to proceed?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Mar 18, 10:24 PM
    • 57,473 Posts
    • 71,066 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    What do you mean? Don't understand.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Adrian1999
    • By Adrian1999 23rd Mar 18, 8:38 AM
    • 26 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    Adrian1999
    The email that the Parking enforcer has for correspondence of the appeal is wrong. They have sent a response to an invalid email.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 23rd Mar 18, 12:52 PM
    • 7,210 Posts
    • 6,714 Thanks
    KeithP
    You're still not explaining it well.

    Whose email address is wrong?

    Have the PPC given you an invalid email address to send your appeal to?

    Are you sending to the PPCs wrong address?

    Are the PPC not responding to your correct email address?
    .
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