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  • FIRST POST
    • Tygermoth
    • By Tygermoth 3rd Mar 18, 7:24 AM
    • 1,354Posts
    • 2,754Thanks
    Tygermoth
    sick dog - options?
    • #1
    • 3rd Mar 18, 7:24 AM
    sick dog - options? 3rd Mar 18 at 7:24 AM
    Long post alert – sorry but my lovely dog is currently having an attack lasting a few days and its upsetting for us as well as painful for him!

    History - about a year ago our 5 year old dog started getting indigestion so bad that only a trip to the vet would sort it (injection/anti-inflammatory/pain killers) we originally thought the first few rounds was down to 'dietary indiscretion' even though he’s not a random eater or a bin diver.

    It started to ramp up to more and more episodes to the point he was quite unwell and our local vet (a vet hospital) was totally baffled. He was hypersalivating so bad they couldn't even do his scheduled op to try and work out what was going on with him. The aforementioned drugs started not to work to knock him out of the attack.

    Concerned the vet hospital referred him to a specialist and we drove a few hours to take him to the referral centre where he had a thorough introduction and scheduled overnight stay.

    He had
    Ultra sound
    Endoscopy
    Bloods
    x-rays
    biopsy’s
    And a huge raft of other tests

    He was sent home two months ago with no definitive diagnosis - just a long list of maybes the only advice given was to religiously stick to the prescribed diet. They have categorically stated that we are to stop with antacids and his painkillers as they felt it was contributing to the issue.

    So, we have had three follow ups and even though we mention our poor dog is in pain, is hypersalvating a number of times a week, is hunched and not himself they just keep stating that we need to keep up with the exclusion diet.

    They have freely admitted they don’t know what wrong with him as the tests have excluded all the common issues - but seem to have side-lined his treatment as they don’t know where to go.

    That’s understandable to a degree, medicine even veterinary medicine doesn’t have all the answers but I am deeply unhappy that they just have ‘stopped’ leaving my dog to keep suffering.

    I had a meeting today with the vet and he got quite snotty with me basically asked me to give him the answer! (I was not rude –he reacted poorly to my pushing to start looking at treatment options as doing something is better that doing nothing)

    So I am not asking for medical advice, I know that not allowed but has anyone heard of this before?

    Symptoms
    Extreme hyper salivation
    Hunching
    Licking and lip smacking
    Pacing

    My dog is fit, slightly underweight, well stimulated and looked after - very healthy - fed (normally) on a dehydrated raw diet – food doesn’t appear to be the issue as he’s now had an attack lasting 2 days on Z/D and nothing else (he’s been on Z/D for several weeks now and it’s not made a blind bit of difference)

    We have ruled out
    Cancer
    Esophagitis
    Reflux
    Stomach and bowel abnormalities
    Any issue Teeth and salivary glands.

    He had a tiny positive for helicobacter and the same again for inflammatory bowel markers – but both were negligible. The only treatment he is on is CBD oil one drop twice a day.

    Anyone have any thoughts for a direction?
    Please note I have a cognitive disability - as such my wording can be a bit off, muddled, misspelt or in some cases i can miss out some words totally...
Page 1
    • Tygermoth
    • By Tygermoth 3rd Mar 18, 7:48 AM
    • 1,354 Posts
    • 2,754 Thanks
    Tygermoth
    • #2
    • 3rd Mar 18, 7:48 AM
    • #2
    • 3rd Mar 18, 7:48 AM
    Ps the only test they didn't do was blood drawn allergy test. They were dead against it as they felt the results are often incorrect with many false positives
    Please note I have a cognitive disability - as such my wording can be a bit off, muddled, misspelt or in some cases i can miss out some words totally...
    • Tabbytabitha
    • By Tabbytabitha 3rd Mar 18, 11:17 AM
    • 1,952 Posts
    • 3,289 Thanks
    Tabbytabitha
    • #3
    • 3rd Mar 18, 11:17 AM
    • #3
    • 3rd Mar 18, 11:17 AM
    As most of those are symptoms of his being in pain, I'm surprised they've taken him off painkillers. What was he on previously?
    • Carer
    • By Carer 3rd Mar 18, 11:43 AM
    • 270 Posts
    • 437 Thanks
    Carer
    • #4
    • 3rd Mar 18, 11:43 AM
    • #4
    • 3rd Mar 18, 11:43 AM
    Can't give any medical advice here, not a vet, but we had a dog with a similar issue - stomach cramps, bloody loose stools, excessive panting and unbelievably loud stomach noise for many years. We eventually found a food that worked for her but it took years of trial and error.

    In the meantime, have you tried him on just normal boiled rice with some added shredded chicken? Nothing else at all. Small amount 2-3 times a day so the stomach isn't too empty when he gets the next feed (which can cause problems in some dogs and did help ours when we changed from one feed a day to 3).

    It's what our vet recommended to feed ours for a few days when she was bad and it always settled her down and got her back to normal, we then gradually introduced foods back into her diet until we figured out what set her off.

    We couldn't feed her on it long term though as it doesn't have enough nutrients. We ended up feeding a hypoallergenic chicken and rice feed which essentially cured her, but obviously you need to find one that works for your dog.
    • fairymoneysaver
    • By fairymoneysaver 3rd Mar 18, 2:45 PM
    • 169 Posts
    • 372 Thanks
    fairymoneysaver
    • #5
    • 3rd Mar 18, 2:45 PM
    • #5
    • 3rd Mar 18, 2:45 PM
    Having had a dog with multiple issues I know how frustrating it is not getting an answer.
    It does sound like a possible stomach/digestive issue. Could you try a different diet? Maybe a gastrointestinal diet or even Chappie or as suggested above chicken and rice (although some dogs have an intolerance to chicken)?
    Have you tried an antacid without painkiller, some painkillers are harsh on the stomach.
    Has your dog been tried on steroids? If you at the stage of trying anything I would ask for a course of steroids - you have nothing to lose, they tend to work quite quickly so you will know if they are making a difference, may also lead to an answer if they do work.
    It is sad your dog has been left in pain
    • Tygermoth
    • By Tygermoth 3rd Mar 18, 7:32 PM
    • 1,354 Posts
    • 2,754 Thanks
    Tygermoth
    • #6
    • 3rd Mar 18, 7:32 PM
    • #6
    • 3rd Mar 18, 7:32 PM
    Hi Guys, thank you for replying - is so lovely when someone takes the time - so thank you

    When the issues first presented he was on a bland diet/chicken rice for ages with no change.

    He then was put on ZD (its a prescription diet to be totally bland and no allergens as well as hydrolyzed proteins)

    He was on metacam for the pain but that is hard on the tum so was taken off that an popped onto tramadol, which the specialist didn't like.

    I kinda see where the vet is coming from its not right to throw treatment to see what sticks, that's not good practice - but pushing the exclusion diet when we know diet is not the issue is really frustrating me.

    I agree on the pain side and i will admit i caved last night and gave him some painkillers.

    There is no rhyme or reason to the attacks - after food, not after food, after a walk - or just randomly in the middle of the day. we have been keeping a diary to try and correlate a trigger - nothing, the dog is being an enigma!

    (the top of the vets list of possibles is crohn's disease - so i have been heavily researching this - hence the CBD as some studies look to show it has very positive benefit - steroids is the next option and its what i am going to discuss for on monday) however the vet is very very resistant, he is adamant this is a nuclear option for a issue we don't even know he has...... sigh
    Last edited by Tygermoth; 03-03-2018 at 7:37 PM.
    Please note I have a cognitive disability - as such my wording can be a bit off, muddled, misspelt or in some cases i can miss out some words totally...
    • Tabbytabitha
    • By Tabbytabitha 3rd Mar 18, 8:06 PM
    • 1,952 Posts
    • 3,289 Thanks
    Tabbytabitha
    • #7
    • 3rd Mar 18, 8:06 PM
    • #7
    • 3rd Mar 18, 8:06 PM
    Hi Guys, thank you for replying - is so lovely when someone takes the time - so thank you

    When the issues first presented he was on a bland diet/chicken rice for ages with no change.

    He then was put on ZD (its a prescription diet to be totally bland and no allergens as well as hydrolyzed proteins)

    He was on metacam for the pain but that is hard on the tum so was taken off that an popped onto tramadol, which the specialist didn't like.

    I kinda see where the vet is coming from its not right to throw treatment to see what sticks, that's not good practice - but pushing the exclusion diet when we know diet is not the issue is really frustrating me.

    I agree on the pain side and i will admit i caved last night and gave him some painkillers.

    There is no rhyme or reason to the attacks - after food, not after food, after a walk - or just randomly in the middle of the day. we have been keeping a diary to try and correlate a trigger - nothing, the dog is being an enigma!

    (the top of the vets list of possibles is crohn's disease - so i have been heavily researching this - hence the CBD as some studies look to show it has very positive benefit - steroids is the next option and its what i am going to discuss for on monday) however the vet is very very resistant, he is adamant this is a nuclear option for a issue we don't even know he has...... sigh
    Originally posted by Tygermoth
    I've two dogs who take Tramadol sometimes - why did the specialist not like it?

    I think it's the kidneys and liver that Metacam is hard on, that's why they need to have a blood test before being prescribed it and regular monitoring.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 3rd Mar 18, 8:26 PM
    • 38,382 Posts
    • 34,986 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    • #8
    • 3rd Mar 18, 8:26 PM
    • #8
    • 3rd Mar 18, 8:26 PM
    If this is all consultations with the specialist, is it worth a conversation with your regular vet to say that you're no further forward, and you'd like to explore X and Y, would they be happy for you to come back under your care to do that because the specialist is resisting that until after diagnosis, but diagnosis is not happening!
    Still knitting!
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    • Sambella
    • By Sambella 3rd Mar 18, 9:38 PM
    • 377 Posts
    • 378 Thanks
    Sambella
    • #9
    • 3rd Mar 18, 9:38 PM
    • #9
    • 3rd Mar 18, 9:38 PM
    Look up Ptyalism - excessive saliva

    Our dog is currently unwell and has had this along with bringing up bile. Turns out she has 1 badly swollen tonsil and we are waiting for the results of a biopsy.
    • Battybird
    • By Battybird 4th Mar 18, 9:44 PM
    • 288 Posts
    • 517 Thanks
    Battybird
    My dog started having stomach cramps and a very noisy tummy. He seemed very, very uncomfortable. We tried him with various diets (slowly) We even tried grainfree.

    What worked for him is Harringtons Salmon and Potato, bought in supermarkets. I know this is a cheaper food but his tummy is fine with this food. We feed him 3 smaller meals per day.
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 6th Mar 18, 1:46 AM
    • 8,989 Posts
    • 5,352 Thanks
    teddysmum
    I take Tramadol and it does give you indigestion as well as some acid reflux.


    The lip smacking is a sign that the poor lad thinks he's done something wrong and is being punished.


    I lost one of my dogs nearly two weeks ago, but prior to stopping eating, he quite enjoyed Harrington's (salmon and potato as above).


    A bland diet to try is tinned Butcher's Tripe (original tripe or tripe with chicken),as there are no additives and a vet once told me that it's better than some so called puppy meats which are too hard on a puppy's digestion. (My remaining dog was actually weaned on Butcher's, after a conversation on the vet's recommendation and has had barely any ill health, being wellpast 14,now.
    • Oddjob
    • By Oddjob 16th Apr 18, 4:43 AM
    • 431 Posts
    • 130 Thanks
    Oddjob
    What sort of dog is he? One drop of CBD oil twice a day is not very much, you start off on a small dose then work up the dose over 2-3 weeks, you can get it up to 12 drops twice a day if needed. You stop increasing the dose as soon as it starts to work. If you increase too much, it can go the other way.
    It just doesn't seem to me that you are giving enough for it to ease the pain or to be of any use.

    For more information about CBD dosage, Rayanna at All Natural Pet is very good and really helpful - https://www.allnaturalpet.co.uk If you click on Contact, it gives her email address and telephone number, she is also on facebook.

    Good luck at finding what's wrong and finding a cure.
    Last edited by Oddjob; 16-04-2018 at 4:50 AM.
    • Judi
    • By Judi 16th Apr 18, 10:51 AM
    • 15,994 Posts
    • 69,053 Thanks
    Judi
    Try live yogurt. I always give it my two when they have digestive problems.
    'Holy crap on a cracker!'
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 16th Apr 18, 8:53 PM
    • 4,509 Posts
    • 3,405 Thanks
    sheramber
    It might be worth finding a holistic vet.
    • Soot2006
    • By Soot2006 17th Apr 18, 8:16 AM
    • 1,236 Posts
    • 1,238 Thanks
    Soot2006
    Tygermoth, how is your dog doing now?

    We went through an awfully long pancreatitis with my dog. It's such a nightmare when they are in pain and you don't know how to help them. I hope your boy is feeling better x
    • melbury
    • By melbury 18th Apr 18, 4:53 PM
    • 10,008 Posts
    • 15,693 Thanks
    melbury
    My dog started having stomach cramps and a very noisy tummy. He seemed very, very uncomfortable. We tried him with various diets (slowly) We even tried grainfree.

    What worked for him is Harringtons Salmon and Potato, bought in supermarkets. I know this is a cheaper food but his tummy is fine with this food. We feed him 3 smaller meals per day.
    Originally posted by Battybird
    Years ago one of our dogs was suffering from what the vet thought was pancreatitis. Suggested we feed her on the tinned original Chappie wet food (smells disgusting, very fishy). Anyway it gave her a new lease of life, worked a treat.
    Stopped smoking 27/12/2007, but could start again at any time

    • Oddjob
    • By Oddjob 18th Apr 18, 8:19 PM
    • 431 Posts
    • 130 Thanks
    Oddjob
    Years ago one of our dogs was suffering from what the vet thought was pancreatitis. Suggested we feed her on the tinned original Chappie wet food (smells disgusting, very fishy). Anyway it gave her a new lease of life, worked a treat.
    Originally posted by melbury
    A lot of vets seem to recommend it
    • herbily
    • By herbily 21st Apr 18, 7:30 PM
    • 212 Posts
    • 1,852 Thanks
    herbily
    I've had to deal with most of the above symptoms but not the hypersalivation, in a dog with chicken allergy. The z/d is full of chicken liver, and chicken fat is one of the most common ingredients in dry food. It often says "poultry fat" on the label, but this generally means chicken rather than anything else. It's really hard to isolate the source of a food allergy because dogfood manufacturers aren't obliged to detail exactly what's gone inton food, but my vets suggested "novel proteins".




    I was lucky enough to be given some venison mince from a neighbour whose freezer was on the blink, and she didn't dare eat anything in it, but she thought my dog might like it. Three days of venison and rice saw an end to the trouble. It took a little while to work out what he could eat - everything except chicken, as it turned out.
    One day at a time...
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