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  • FIRST POST
    • facade
    • By facade 2nd Mar 18, 6:11 PM
    • 3,152Posts
    • 1,657Thanks
    facade
    Why aren't BMWs limited to Winter tyres and 75 BHP
    • #1
    • 2nd Mar 18, 6:11 PM
    Why aren't BMWs limited to Winter tyres and 75 BHP 2nd Mar 18 at 6:11 PM
    Then the roads wouldn't be gridlocked by arctics trying to go round a BMW stuck on a virtually flat road in 0.5cm of snow.

    The combination of 500BHP, a lead right foot and ultra low profile summer tyres does not make for good progress
    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

    (except air quality and Medical Science )
Page 3
    • shazzablue
    • By shazzablue 3rd Mar 18, 6:24 PM
    • 119 Posts
    • 42 Thanks
    shazzablue
    i think rwd plus my run flat tyres are to blame....not my driving..
    • Jackmydad
    • By Jackmydad 3rd Mar 18, 8:09 PM
    • 2,491 Posts
    • 7,436 Thanks
    Jackmydad
    I had a big metal drum from a fishing boat winch, which weighed over 2 cwt in the boot of my marina. I was staying in a block of tenement flats at the time and dumped it out the back in the summer. A new owner took offence at the mess of the place and was trying to tidy it up. He had a friend helping and they struggled to move it between them. Anyway, they had no knowledge of fishing boats and thought it was a wheel! I was remarkably amused listening in as they were blown away by the weight of it and were speculating what kind of vehicle it must have come from.
    Originally posted by Nebulous2
    When I had the old Mark 1 Cortina I used to just bung a couple of bags of sand in the boot.
    All those old "ordinary" RWD cars were a bit light on the back end IIRC.
    "Luck happens where hard work meets opportunity"
    • highet
    • By highet 3rd Mar 18, 9:36 PM
    • 337 Posts
    • 71 Thanks
    highet
    had a couple of capris in the 80s and you certainly didnt drive around happily in the snow - live rear axle made them the most tail slide happy cars ive ever owned
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 3rd Mar 18, 10:57 PM
    • 4,354 Posts
    • 3,824 Thanks
    Joe Horner
    Was stuck in my wife's Mundano today because mine decided it didn't want to play & wa easier than jumping it. Still got to have fun on the way home though

    https://www.facebook.com/joe.horner.3/videos/1602127416541465/
    • custardy
    • By custardy 4th Mar 18, 6:56 AM
    • 33,453 Posts
    • 28,353 Thanks
    custardy
    Saw an M5 the other day struggling to get into the B&Q car park. Went in,did my shoppingand saw had managed to get out of the car park.
    Then found him stuck on the roundabout leaving B&Q.,requiring a tow to get up the hill.
    I was driving our C4 Picasso on relativly cheap non winter tyres.
    On the way to work I picked up a coworker who could get neither of his flash beemers off his drive and had warned me to 'not go near his road as it was impossible to drive'
    I picked him up at his house.
    IMO poor driver skills/experience with wrong tyres and some elctronic 'aids' not helping.Picasso has switchable ESP.
    Last edited by custardy; 04-03-2018 at 7:06 AM.
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 5th Mar 18, 9:03 AM
    • 1,773 Posts
    • 9,453 Thanks
    NBLondon
    Even the xdrive BMWs are useless if they have large wheels and performance tyres.
    Originally posted by daveyjp
    On the basis of what I saw on Friday afternoon - Porsche Cayennes are no better. There's a lot of Range Rover Evoques in my neighbourhood but I didn't see a single one actually being driven in the snow. I think there might be a correlation between driver ability and cars being purchased for image over function.
    Womble #7 - Running Total 9.68 $1.99 3.35 S//0.10 (that's supposed to be 10 Ukrainian kopiyki but the site is refusing to display the symbol) Bds$0.10 A$0.05 C$0.88 S$0.20 zl0.02 (Polish grosze) LB0.22 (Bulgarian stotinka) ISKr 5 DKr 0.50 CHF 0.50
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 5th Mar 18, 9:40 AM
    • 1,462 Posts
    • 1,080 Thanks
    IanMSpencer
    Never used to have that much trouble in the snow. I think the fundamental change was to very wide tyres. My first car was a Citroen GS and that has 2CVesque super narrow tyres. Wet and snow didn't phase it.

    It also had a twin choke carburettor, where the first 2/3s of the accelerator travel gave fine control over the first carburettor, and then there was a sort of kick down where the second carburettor opened and it was basically a loud or louder setting (about 90bhp out of 1222cc air cooled IRCC - it could do about 95mph happily).

    1999 Merc C Class was undriveable until I put all season tyres on.

    In Germany and Austria, drivers are obliged to put on winter tyres by law, so it is a bit of a clue as to the solution that the owners of BMWs, Audis and Mercs continue to buy these "undriveable" cars when they have much worse conditions.

    It is one of the great mysteries of the British car industry that the standard tyre that cars are sold with are sub-optimal for about 80% of the year (rain, cold and snow). Buyers seem to be tempted by marketing aimed at performance optimised for hot, dry track days rather than safe, all year round performance. As more all season tyres are coming into use it is becoming more obvious in bad weather.

    Worse are the people driving their over-worn rock solid ditchfinders around the place, bemoaning the lack of gritting and skidding all over the place.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 5th Mar 18, 9:45 AM
    • 10,964 Posts
    • 7,777 Thanks
    neilmcl
    Never used to have that much trouble in the snow. I think the fundamental change was to very wide tyres. My first car was a Citroen GS and that has 2CVesque super narrow tyres. Wet and snow didn't phase it.

    It also had a twin choke carburettor, where the first 2/3s of the accelerator travel gave fine control over the first carburettor, and then there was a sort of kick down where the second carburettor opened and it was basically a loud or louder setting (about 90bhp out of 1222cc air cooled IRCC - it could do about 95mph happily).

    1999 Merc C Class was undriveable until I put all season tyres on.

    In Germany and Austria, drivers are obliged to put on winter tyres by law, so it is a bit of a clue as to the solution that the owners of BMWs, Audis and Mercs continue to buy these "undriveable" cars when they have much worse conditions.

    It is one of the great mysteries of the British car industry that the standard tyre that cars are sold with are sub-optimal for about 80% of the year (rain, cold and snow). Buyers seem to be tempted by marketing aimed at performance optimised for hot, dry track days rather than safe, all year round performance. As more all season tyres are coming into use it is becoming more obvious in bad weather.

    Worse are the people driving their over-worn rock solid ditchfinders around the place, bemoaning the lack of gritting and skidding all over the place.
    Originally posted by IanMSpencer
    I wouldn't have said so. If you really look at the weather statistics you'd probably find it to be the opposite, ie, temperature being in excess of 7 degrees for the majority of the year in most places and so the use of standard "summer" tyres being more than optimal.

    I totally agree though that there should be more encouragement for the use of winter tyres.
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 5th Mar 18, 9:51 AM
    • 13,957 Posts
    • 18,376 Thanks
    Gloomendoom
    Never used to have that much trouble in the snow. I think the fundamental change was to very wide tyres. My first car was a Citroen GS and that has 2CVesque super narrow tyres. Wet and snow didn't phase it.

    It also had a twin choke carburettor, where the first 2/3s of the accelerator travel gave fine control over the first carburettor, and then there was a sort of kick down where the second carburettor opened and it was basically a loud or louder setting (about 90bhp out of 1222cc air cooled IRCC - it could do about 95mph happily).
    Originally posted by IanMSpencer
    I had a couple of those. The power output was closer to 60 bhp than 90 and they really struggled on hills with full load of passengers. I had a set of chains for mine which really helped when it (snow, not struggling on hills) got really bad.
    Last edited by Gloomendoom; 05-03-2018 at 9:55 AM.
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 5th Mar 18, 10:04 AM
    • 1,462 Posts
    • 1,080 Thanks
    IanMSpencer
    I wouldn't have said so. If you really look at the weather statistics you'd probably find it to be the opposite, ie, temperature being in excess of 7 degrees for the majority of the year in most places and so the use of standard "summer" tyres being more than optimal.

    I totally agree though that there should be more encouragement for the use of winter tyres.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    I think what you have to remember about temperature is when are cars being driven - one of the main times is around 7-8 in the morning which is the coldest part of the day. Then how much of the summer were the roads wet?

    Yes, 80% is an exaggeration, but the cross over point for all seasons is not the fabled 7 degrees where the rubber does not work properly, but higher than that - plenty of cool days where all season are still the perfect choice and summer tyres are sub-optimal.

    My main reasoning is that as I do not drive on the limit of the handling of my car, the extra 10% or so of an already short braking distance in optimal summer conditions is highly unlikely to make a difference to me, where as the extreme differences in the cold and wet will make a significant difference (after all we are talking here about the situation where cars are literally undriveable simply due to tyre choice).
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 5th Mar 18, 11:09 AM
    • 10,964 Posts
    • 7,777 Thanks
    neilmcl
    Again I wouldn't say "summer" tyres are sub-optimal, even in cooler (above 7 degrees) and wetter conditions. To me all-seasons are a compromise rather than the best of both worlds, they have their place but I'd rather be driving on the best tyre for the conditions and that is a good, standard tyre for most of the year and a set of winters during the 3 or 4 colder months.

    Having said that I neglected to fit my winters this year and apart from this previous week, where I wasn't needed to drive anywhere anyway, there's been no issues.
    • nubbz
    • By nubbz 5th Mar 18, 1:28 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    nubbz
    Had a BMW e36 until a few days ago.
    Was perfectly fine in the snow.. ye the back end kicked out a lot but only when I wanted it to. Was plodding on quite fine until I went down a hill had to stop due to a transit being stuck in the snow.... Was waiting for about 30 minutes for him to dig himself out when a 4x4 honda couldn't stop and went right into the back of me.
    T'is not the car but the driver that is the issue.
    • almillar
    • By almillar 5th Mar 18, 1:39 PM
    • 7,333 Posts
    • 2,967 Thanks
    almillar
    The combination of 500BHP, a lead right foot and ultra low profile summer tyres does not make for good progress
    It's the driven rear wheels with not much weight over them that makes the difference versus most other cars. Because most BMWs aren't 500 BHP, and most other cars are on summer tyres. And you can get XDrive (4WD) Beemers now so....

    The manual tells you to switch off DSC for slow speed driving on snow.
    Applies to all cars, but I would say don't switch it off until you actually get stuck. It could save you whilst driving, and it only really gets in the way when you're stuck.

    Even the xdrive BMWs are useless if they have large wheels and performace tyres.
    ... again, applies to any brand of car...

    They just have the equivalent of massive engine braking when you lift off the go pedal
    Most electric cars do this when you lift your foot off the accelerator pedal - it feels like engine braking. It can be stronger than that of course, but the thing that Nissan are advertising with the Leaf is that you can come to a stop without using the brake pedal. One pedal driving. Great, except that the i3 has been doing this since 2014(?)!.
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 5th Mar 18, 6:00 PM
    • 4,354 Posts
    • 3,824 Thanks
    Joe Horner
    ]
    Worse are the people driving their over-worn rock solid ditchfinders around the place, bemoaning the lack of gritting and skidding all over the place.
    Originally posted by IanMSpencer

    My video above was on about half worn "ditchfinders" - Three A P306's for the record. Really didn't have a problem.
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