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    • anyadvicehelp
    • By anyadvicehelp 2nd Mar 18, 2:54 AM
    • 1Posts
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    anyadvicehelp
    LL termination notice due to some AIRBNB - help(!)
    • #1
    • 2nd Mar 18, 2:54 AM
    LL termination notice due to some AIRBNB - help(!) 2nd Mar 18 at 2:54 AM
    Hi - be grateful for any help please...

    • Have been renting a place in Westminster, London for about 9 years (a lot of money)
    • The rent has always been paid on time and the flat has been kept in great condition
    • Its rented off big landlord company that own a lot of local property in Westminster
    • I have been travelling and staying away due to the difficulties of finding work over last 6months
    • My partner has been helping with the rent & bills and stays when he is in London
    • I signed a new fixed term AST for a year from Aug 2017- Aug 2018 with the landlord company
    • There have been issues recently with the lift in the building over the last 3months, but that is fixed

    Just this week the landlord sent an email indicating they will serving notice of termination and will take legal action if we do not comply. In the email they say the basis for the notice is a breach of the AST terms:
    • Running a business in the premises
    • Not occupying the residence as a principle home
    • Subletting
    • Assigning the tenancy of the premises

    It would seem that my partner has been occasionally using AIRBNB when I am and him are not there.

    He says this is occasional and has helped him contribute to the large rent bill & costs in my work absence

    The lease is in my name only.

    I am devastated by this Notice of Termination and don't know what to do?

    The Westminster Council and MP promotes the sharing economy and AIRBNB within reason.

    I don't know how I can fight this and what to do??
    Last edited by anyadvicehelp; 02-03-2018 at 2:57 AM.
Page 4
    • G_M
    • By G_M 10th Mar 18, 12:03 AM
    • 44,097 Posts
    • 52,245 Thanks
    G_M
    This thread is either a wind-up, or the OP will only be satisfied by being told what he wants to hear.

    Pointless to continue.
    • John-K
    • By John-K 10th Mar 18, 12:26 AM
    • 654 Posts
    • 1,011 Thanks
    John-K
    I am unsure if I have any grounds for a re-think, on the basis that it may be construed as retaliative action for complaining about the lift service in writing to the property manager. If they have the 2m break clause in the contract I assume this has no weight?
    Originally posted by anyadvice4me
    Are you taking the !!!!?

    You have abused your position with the landlord, but now want to paint them as being in the wrong?

    At this point I hope that you end up on the street. Have you no shame?
    • SnooksNJ
    • By SnooksNJ 10th Mar 18, 10:25 AM
    • 697 Posts
    • 1,203 Thanks
    SnooksNJ
    I have not done anything wrong. If they have any evidence/screen shots of an Airbnb listing of the flat - it would not be in my name and not by me. Does this mean that anyone who has pictures of your flat - can post them on Airbnb and then get you evicted?
    Originally posted by anyadvice4me


    I don't know. Why not ask your boyfriend? Because if someone was scamming people posting random pictures of unavailable houses as soon as the Air BnBer's did show up they wouldn't be allowed access to the house.
    So when you contact your landlord, MP, Santa Claus, or whoever with your outrage you better come up with a different story.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 10th Mar 18, 11:02 AM
    • 4,973 Posts
    • 13,236 Thanks
    EachPenny
    Regardless of the airbnb stuff, you are "Not occupying the residence as a principle home", one of the breaches being claimed. Unless you can rectify this then it is pointless to argue about anything else.

    Have you split up with the boyfriend? If not you are continuing to associate with someone who you yourself is suggesting might have committed some form of fraud. That could be a reason for landlords (not just this one) to have a reason not to want anything to do with you. If you claim the boyfriend did all of this without your knowledge then the landlord can rightly assume that the same situation might happen again.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • anyadvice4me
    • By anyadvice4me 18th Mar 18, 6:59 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    anyadvice4me
    Thanks for Past advice - new letter
    None of this applies. I'm sorry. It doesn't. Wait for court papers and go from there.
    Originally posted by Comms69

    Thanks for the past advise.

    I am lost with this and will need some technical advice.

    1) As indicated previously, have a letter issued by the Landlord company dated 27-Feb-18
    - The cover letter requests notice of possession on 28-Apr-18
    - Then is enclosed a FORM 6A stating should leave on 28-Apr-18
    - Form 6A is hand dated "27-28-18" by mistake

    2) Also received a letter dated 6-Mar-18 (can post up)
    - Issued by some ligation company seeking possession of an AST
    - Seems a template format stating where should not/should not be used
    - Says its seeking possession on "Ground 12" Schedule 2 Housing Act 1988
    - States Court proceedings will not being until after 21-Mar-18
    - Got lots of technical information about various grounds in it
    - Seems to be written on behalf of the landlord company

    Some Questions which may help:
    -Can you shed any light on this 2nd Letter received?
    -(I thought the first letter with FORM 6A was the s21 notice?)
    -Donít understand the 2nd letter purpose and why they state after 21-Mar-18 on it?
    -Are the dates that they can get possession still the 28-Apr-18 or later?
    -If they are agreeable can any of this be retracted?
    -Is there anywhere I can go to understand this process better and if I have any rights?


    Really appreciate the forums past technical experts and advice in this area.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 18th Mar 18, 7:07 PM
    • 4,364 Posts
    • 6,242 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    Even if this is invalid they are going to get it right eventually. Have you started to look for somewhere else to live because that is going to be the eventual outcome.
    • kinger101
    • By kinger101 18th Mar 18, 7:40 PM
    • 4,196 Posts
    • 5,682 Thanks
    kinger101
    Really appreciate the forums past technical experts and advice in this area.
    Originally posted by anyadvice4me
    I've no expert, and I've not commented previously. But I'll sum it up.

    You're in the wrong. Look for somewhere else to live. Behave better next time.
    • parkrunner
    • By parkrunner 18th Mar 18, 7:54 PM
    • 1,096 Posts
    • 1,731 Thanks
    parkrunner
    Jesus wept, I hope the landlord wins this but I feel sorry for the next one, and I speak as a tenant.
    • anyadvice4me
    • By anyadvice4me 18th Mar 18, 8:02 PM
    • 14 Posts
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    anyadvice4me
    Even if this is invalid they are going to get it right eventually. Have you started to look for somewhere else to live because that is going to be the eventual outcome.
    Originally posted by Cakeguts
    Thanks. Appreciate the non-judgemental approach. Forum posters have a limit on how much they can explain about their personal circumstances and situation. Granted the power is in landlords (LL) hands - however is there anything in the LL s21 approach or documentation provided which is incorrect?
    • G_M
    • By G_M 18th Mar 18, 8:11 PM
    • 44,097 Posts
    • 52,245 Thanks
    G_M
    Some Questions which may help:
    -Can you shed any light on this 2nd Letter received?
    Yes.
    -(I thought the first letter with FORM 6A was the s21 notice?)
    Yes
    -Don!!!8217;t understand the 2nd letter purpose
    It's a S8 Notice (faster than S21) using Ground 12. See
    Schedule 2 (17 S8 Grounds a LL can use)

    and why they state after 21-Mar-18 on it?
    S8 is faster than S21

    S21 does not require a reason.
    S8 does require a reason - in this case ground 12.

    -Are the dates that they can get possession still the 28-Apr-18 or later?
    No.
    If the S8 succeeds it could be shortly after 21st March depending on court date

    -If they are agreeable can any of this be retracted?
    Of course
    -Is there anywhere I can go to understand this process better and if I have any rights?
    CAB
    Shelter
    A property/housing law solicitor

    .
    Originally posted by anyadvice4me
    You are going to have to either negotiate and reach an agreement, or leave at some point.

    Focus on those two options.
    Last edited by G_M; 18-03-2018 at 8:15 PM.
    • Annie35
    • By Annie35 18th Mar 18, 8:11 PM
    • 216 Posts
    • 184 Thanks
    Annie35
    The 2nd letter is a section 8 eviction notice. Ground 12 only needs 2 weeks notice though it is discretionary not guaranteed posession.

    Basically they are covering their behinds & will probably submit both s21 & s8 notices to court in the hope 1 sticks.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 18th Mar 18, 8:12 PM
    • 9,422 Posts
    • 10,418 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    Thanks. Appreciate the non-judgemental approach. Forum posters have a limit on how much they can explain about their personal circumstances and situation. Granted the power is in landlords (LL) hands - however is there anything in the LL s21 approach or documentation provided which is incorrect?
    Originally posted by anyadvice4me
    Unbelievable. How can you still fail to understand that even if there is something that's incorrect, you will eventually be evicted so why not be pragmatic, start looking now and move out before baliffs come and throw you and your belongings out on the street and you have to pay court fees?

    Especially since by your own admission you cant afford to live there, so why are you clinging on?
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 18th Mar 18, 8:21 PM
    • 31,662 Posts
    • 19,973 Thanks
    DCFC79
    I have not done anything wrong. If they have any evidence/screen shots of an Airbnb listing of the flat - it would not be in my name and not by me. Does this mean that anyone who has pictures of your flat - can post them on Airbnb and then get you evicted?
    Originally posted by anyadvice4me
    No you weren't involved in what happened BUT the lease is in your name which makes you accountable. Maybe you shpuld be venting your anger toward your partner, maybe go as far consider the future there is for you 2.
    Last edited by DCFC79; 18-03-2018 at 8:28 PM.
    Can people stop loaning money/being a guarator to family/friends, it rarely ends well and you lose out as your money is gone or you get shafted with being a guarantor.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 18th Mar 18, 10:36 PM
    • 4,364 Posts
    • 6,242 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    If someone posted picture of a flat on airbnb and they were not the tenant of the flat of the owner of the flat and people turned up to rent a room at the flat and the owner/tenant didn't know anything about it airbnb would remove the advert.

    In your case people did come and stay at your flat so you are in the wrong because you allowed someone to stay in your flat and do advertise it on airbnb against your tenancy agreement and possibly against the policy of the local council.

    Your landlord cannot allow you to stay there because they can't now trust you. You will be evicted eventually and you will have to find somewhere else to live so instead of wasting time trying to fight something that you can't win you would be better to look for somewhere else which is also cheaper.
    • anyadvice4me
    • By anyadvice4me 19th Mar 18, 3:43 AM
    • 14 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    anyadvice4me
    -It's a S8 Notice (faster than S21) using Ground 12. See Schedule 2 (17 S8 Grounds a LL can use)

    Why they state after 21-Mar-18 on it?
    S8 is faster than S21
    S21 does not require a reason.
    S8 does require a reason - in this case ground 12.

    -Are the dates that they can get possession still the 28-Apr-18 or later?
    No. If the S8 succeeds it could be shortly after 21st March depending on court date

    -If they are agreeable can any of this be retracted?
    Of course
    -Is there anywhere I can go to understand this process better and if I have any rights?
    CAB
    Shelter
    A property/housing law solicitor
    You are going to have to either negotiate and reach an agreement, or leave at some point..
    Focus on those two options.
    Originally posted by G_M
    Grateful for the reply. This is a shock to me. Although I welcome understanding a little more..

    With the S8, how long would I approx have for a court date and a hearing? How would I be notified so I can ensure attendance or send someone if I have to work? I understand "Ground 12" is discretionary ground and it would be up to me to defend possession (how long is generally provided to leave if I lost the S8?). Will costs be awarded against me?

    If I lost, I think I understand they would then need to get a possession order if I had not been able to move out? I assume there is limited ways to defend against the subsequent possession order? - and again I am unsure how long I would have to leave?

    Rent is due for the next month in the next couple of days, if I pay it, will I see any of it back if the S8 is successful in any way?
    • franklee
    • By franklee 19th Mar 18, 10:03 AM
    • 3,644 Posts
    • 3,897 Thanks
    franklee
    With the S8, how long would I approx have for a court date and a hearing? How would I be notified so I can ensure attendance or send someone if I have to work? I understand "Ground 12" is discretionary ground and it would be up to me to defend possession (how long is generally provided to leave if I lost the S8?). Will costs be awarded against me?

    If I lost, I think I understand they would then need to get a possession order if I had not been able to move out? I assume there is limited ways to defend against the subsequent possession order? - and again I am unsure how long I would have to leave?

    Rent is due for the next month in the next couple of days, if I pay it, will I see any of it back if the S8 is successful in any way?
    Originally posted by anyadvice4me
    Like other posters I'm baffled as to why you wish to cling on to a flat you can't afford and don't have work nearby. Maybe you want to hang onto the airB&B income if there are bookings over the next few weeks?

    However given you are asking about the procedure this is what I think:

    The time till the court hearing will depend on how busy the courts are so will vary by area. You can ring the court to ask about procedure so try asking them although it may be they cannot predict.

    If you loose costs will be awarded against you.

    The possession order will be made at the hearing. You would then typically have two weeks. If you still don't leave the landlord would instruct bailiffs. Again the wait time depends on area.

    This gives a good overview of the process:

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/renting-privately/during-your-tenancy/check-your-section-8-notice/

    Frankly I think your breach of the tenancy is pretty major and unfair to your landlord.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 19th Mar 18, 10:26 AM
    • 2,970 Posts
    • 2,938 Thanks
    Comms69
    Grateful for the reply. This is a shock to me. Although I welcome understanding a little more..

    With the S8, how long would I approx have for a court date and a hearing? How would I be notified so I can ensure attendance or send someone if I have to work? I understand "Ground 12" is discretionary ground and it would be up to me to defend possession (how long is generally provided to leave if I lost the S8?). Will costs be awarded against me? - Possibly

    If I lost, I think I understand they would then need to get a possession order if I had not been able to move out? - if you lose they get a possession order, that why they're going to court I assume there is limited ways to defend against the subsequent possession order? - and again I am unsure how long I would have to leave? - a few weeks

    Rent is due for the next month in the next couple of days, if I pay it, will I see any of it back if the S8 is successful in any way?
    Originally posted by anyadvice4me
    Unless it's a solicitor they will have no right of audience without you being present.


    The law is:


    You can speak
    Solicitor can speak
    Anyone else can speak, as long as you are sat next to them!
    • Annie35
    • By Annie35 19th Mar 18, 10:40 AM
    • 216 Posts
    • 184 Thanks
    Annie35
    The dates the notices end (21st march/28th april) are the dates they can apply to court for eviction. You don't need to leave on these dates & baliffs won't come on these dates.

    The s8 notice is based on you running a business so I guess the defence would be 'prove it' & it may come down to wether they have the airbnb reviews page or not. They may or may not wait till the April date anyway.

    Then the s21 notice, could you fight it? Well firstly is it valid, could you argue it's retaliation, will it cause terrible hardship etc. The forum have judged you negatively so you'd need to think how best to present your case as on the other hand on the surface you seem to have funds & access to other living arrangements so it maybe a hard argument.

    Giving you the benefit of the doubt I can totally see being told to leave your home of 10 years would be a wrench, especially if you've resorted to working away/sublet to keep hold of it !!!55357;!!!56853;
    • anyadvice4me
    • By anyadvice4me 19th Mar 18, 10:55 AM
    • 14 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    anyadvice4me
    If you loose costs will be awarded against you.
    Originally posted by franklee
    Thanks. There are no Airbnb things going on. I appreciate any advice that is provided as I have to focus on the practicalities of the situation.

    Do you know how much approx. this would this cost if I lose the possession order? If it is goes ahead and is undefended, I assume the costs would be awarded in any case?

    I do think the property manager was un-phased to go into proceedings quickly because of my previous complaints of having no lift for two and half months in the building, also the terrible noise, dust and dirt when they were repairing it. That work is over now, however I am unsure if there is any defence on retaliation grounds that would defend against a S8 or S21 order (I assume the S21 is not defendable at all as is not "discretionary")?

    I have received an email response from a different Landlord member of staff intimidating that they would consider removing the action after writing to the boss of the company (he may have disagreed with the harshness of his property manager's actions considering how long I have been a good tenant for). I am in too minds if I would want to stay considering the current circumstances but am limited with the ability to move from somewhere which has been a home for a long time and thus accumulated a lot of things whilst juggling lots of other critical priorities at this time as well. It has happened too fast for me.

    If they removed the actions against me - is there anything I need from them in order to ensure its stopped?

    If I felt I could move - technically I would need to provide the 2m notice to leave? When I complained about the lift previously their response was "you can just leave if you don't like it" so I assume they may facilitate an earlier exit, however I am unsure if the present situation would allow me exit sooner if I was able to (I guess to do so is totally at their discretion if the current proceedings are cancelled)?
    Last edited by anyadvice4me; 19-03-2018 at 10:58 AM.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 19th Mar 18, 11:08 AM
    • 2,970 Posts
    • 2,938 Thanks
    Comms69
    Thanks. There are no Airbnb things going on. I appreciate any advice that is provided as I have to focus on the practicalities of the situation.

    Do you know how much approx. this would this cost if I lose the possession order? If it is goes ahead and is undefended, I assume the costs would be awarded in any case? Around £300.

    I do think the property manager was un-phased to go into proceedings quickly because of my previous complaints of having no lift for two and half months in the building, also the terrible noise, dust and dirt when they were repairing it. - Fine, good for them. That work is over now, however I am unsure if there is any defence on retaliation grounds that would defend against a S8 or S21 order (I assume the S21 is not defendable at all as is not "discretionary")? - No, your defence is: The behaviour has now stopped and WILL NOT CONTINUE - that should take care of the s.8, the s.21 will eventually see you evicted

    I have received an email response from a different Landlord member of staff intimidating that they would consider removing the action after writing to the boss of the company (he may have disagreed with the harshness of his property manager's actions considering how long I have been a good tenant for). I am in too minds if I would want to stay considering the current circumstances but am limited with the ability to move from somewhere which has been a home for a long time and thus accumulated a lot of things whilst juggling lots of other critical priorities at this time as well. It has happened too fast for me. - 'too fast'? Sorry rubbish. I've moved a 3 bed house with 3 kids and pets in 2 days. There's no way your two bed flat is not moveable

    If they removed the actions against me - is there anything I need from them in order to ensure its stopped? - No, and there is no guarantee. They haven't taken any action yet. The s.21 will remain valid for (4 months? someone correct me, I cant remember)

    If I felt I could move - technically I would need to provide the 2m notice to leave? - yes, in theory. When I complained about the lift previously their response was "you can just leave if you don't like it" so I assume they may facilitate an earlier exit, however I am unsure if the present situation would allow me exit sooner if I was able to (I guess to do so is totally at their discretion if the current proceedings are cancelled)?
    Originally posted by anyadvice4me
    Forget the lift, it was a big deal to you, but no-one in the management company cares. Literally no-one.
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