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  • FIRST POST
    • anyadvicehelp
    • By anyadvicehelp 2nd Mar 18, 2:54 AM
    • 1Posts
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    anyadvicehelp
    LL termination notice due to some AIRBNB - help(!)
    • #1
    • 2nd Mar 18, 2:54 AM
    LL termination notice due to some AIRBNB - help(!) 2nd Mar 18 at 2:54 AM
    Hi - be grateful for any help please...

    • Have been renting a place in Westminster, London for about 9 years (a lot of money)
    • The rent has always been paid on time and the flat has been kept in great condition
    • Its rented off big landlord company that own a lot of local property in Westminster
    • I have been travelling and staying away due to the difficulties of finding work over last 6months
    • My partner has been helping with the rent & bills and stays when he is in London
    • I signed a new fixed term AST for a year from Aug 2017- Aug 2018 with the landlord company
    • There have been issues recently with the lift in the building over the last 3months, but that is fixed

    Just this week the landlord sent an email indicating they will serving notice of termination and will take legal action if we do not comply. In the email they say the basis for the notice is a breach of the AST terms:
    • Running a business in the premises
    • Not occupying the residence as a principle home
    • Subletting
    • Assigning the tenancy of the premises

    It would seem that my partner has been occasionally using AIRBNB when I am and him are not there.

    He says this is occasional and has helped him contribute to the large rent bill & costs in my work absence

    The lease is in my name only.

    I am devastated by this Notice of Termination and don't know what to do?

    The Westminster Council and MP promotes the sharing economy and AIRBNB within reason.

    I don't know how I can fight this and what to do??
    Last edited by anyadvicehelp; 02-03-2018 at 2:57 AM.
Page 3
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 4th Mar 18, 8:26 AM
    • 9,601 Posts
    • 10,673 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    Several simple questions for you to answer.
    If what you wrote initially is correct, why do you think you need to change their minds, when simply by telling them that you are stopping the AirBNB and will be occupying the property, they wil not issue a eviction notice?
    Why are you "devastated" when you don't appear to live in the property or be able to afford it ?
    Why don't you move to somewhere you can afford?
    And finally, why don't you understand that the only legal process needed would be if you pointlessly contested their formal notification to leave as per the ts&cs ?
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 4th Mar 18, 8:39 AM
    • 6,503 Posts
    • 6,044 Thanks
    00ec25
    Hi, thanks for the information, I am reading the advice and will reply as much as I can.

    I have spend the last day going through the Aug-17 to Aug-18 one year AST contract, it does state this in it..


    If this is the case, does it mean that they will not need any formal legal process? - or if a possession order is requested after 2 months, its a done deal that it will be given?

    It may not come to that, however I just want to know where I stand legally as they may not be willing to understand or change their minds at all (they have a lot of flats).
    Originally posted by anyadvice4me
    if the LL serves notice under the break clause then that has nothing whatsoever to do with the legal processes already mentioned

    the break clause says the LL wants the tenancy to end once the notice period set out in the break clause has passed. note carefully, it does NOT end the tenancy. If you as tenant continue in occupation after the break clause notice period has passed the LL must then return to the legal processes already mentioned, they will need to go to court and get a court awarded possession order. Only once they have one of those will you tenancy be ended.

    if you want to play hard ball the following scenario could possibily apply:
    1. LL gives notice under the break clause but fails to issue a S21 at the same time
    2. 2 months later you refuse to leave and continue in occupation at which point LL realises his mistake and serves a S21 giving another 2 months notice
    3. 2 months later you refuse to leave, LL cannot physically evict you so must go to court to get a possession order. It could take 1 - 2 months to get a court date. (you will be liable for their court fees)
    4. if the S21 was dated correctly then there is no defence against it and the court will automatically award a possession order.
    5. you continue to refuse to leave, LL cannot physically evict you, so must appoint bailiffs who can physically evict you. That could take another 1 - 2 months before the bailiffs turn up and carry out the eviction

    total time lapsed 6 - 8 months ... but please understand, if they serve a S21 it is only a matter of time before you will be leaving.

    the whole point of posts to date is that it appears you have not had a S21, you have had a formal warning, but it seems you want to ignore that?
    • anyadvice4me
    • By anyadvice4me 9th Mar 18, 2:14 PM
    • 14 Posts
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    anyadvice4me
    Appreciate advice
    Thanks. I am grateful for your reply. I just appreciate practical advice as I am scared and don't know what to do.

    I have been a tenant at this flat for about 9yrs and have always paid rent and kept the flat in the same condition.

    I have exchanged emails with the Landlord company but they have not responded to my last email.

    They have served a section 6A notice in a "Department for Communities Local Government FORM 6A" standard template.

    I am not sure what this means as I thought Ground 6 was evicting on grounds of building works? They have not sent a section 21, but I can check to see if we signed any s21 at the start of the last tenancy renewal which began at the end of Aug-17 (if that is relevant?).

    The FORM 6A notice has a cover letter from the LL company and says that they are serving this notice due to a particular clause in the AST. That specific clause is the break clause and just says the below in the AST

    "It is further mutually agreed that the Landlord shall have the right to terminate the Tenancy Agreement by the giving of two calendar months notice in writing to the Tenant of their intention so to do the tenancy thus determining upon the expiration of such notice but without prejudice to the rights of either party. Please note, this notice must be given on the rent due date and the expiry date should not fall on either a Sunday or a bank holiday.”
    There was no lift in the building for 3months late last year (the flat is on the top floor of the building) - it was hard for my partner to climb the stairs, so he Airbnb'ed it to help pay for things while he was not there and to stop it being empty (there had been a burglary a couple of years ago in a flat downstairs). I had complained to the Landlord about the Lift access and they said at that time I could leave if I did not like it. I have a feeling they may be relating now.

    I am just not able to move at this time. I don't know where to start with this? Do I have any way of overcoming this? I can try and reason with the LL - but are there any places I can go to get any support or help? Are there any organisations, local council, local Gov or the Westminster MP surgery that can help intervene, mediate or advise?
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 9th Mar 18, 2:21 PM
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    Comms69
    Thanks. I am grateful for your reply. I just appreciate practical advice as I am scared and don't know what to do.

    I have been a tenant at this flat for about 9yrs and have always paid rent and kept the flat in the same condition.

    I have exchanged emails with the Landlord company but they have not responded to my last email.

    They have served a section 6A notice in a "Department for Communities Local Government FORM 6A" standard template.

    I am not sure what this means as I thought Ground 6 was evicting on grounds of building works? They have not sent a section 21, but I can check to see if we signed any s21 at the start of the last tenancy renewal which began at the end of Aug-17 (if that is relevant?).

    The FORM 6A notice has a cover letter from the LL company and says that they are serving this notice due to a particular clause in the AST. That specific clause is the break clause and just says the below in the AST



    There was no lift in the building for 3months late last year (the flat is on the top floor of the building) - it was hard for my partner to climb the stairs, so he Airbnb'ed it to help pay for things while he was not there and to stop it being empty (there had been a burglary a couple of years ago in a flat downstairs). I had complained to the Landlord about the Lift access and they said at that time I could leave if I did not like it. I have a feeling they may be relating now.

    I am just not able to move at this time. I don't know where to start with this? Do I have any way of overcoming this? I can try and reason with the LL - but are there any places I can go to get any support or help? Are there any organisations, local council, local Gov or the Westminster MP surgery that can help intervene, mediate or advise?
    Originally posted by anyadvice4me


    No. The LL is not obliged to listen to anyone else. If they wish to evict that is that.


    Form 6A is not ground 6A, so don't get those confused.


    The break clause however may be invalid IF you do not have a right to invoke it. You need to provide the full wording
    • anyadvice4me
    • By anyadvice4me 9th Mar 18, 3:05 PM
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    anyadvice4me
    The wording in the AST is the below...

    Break Clause
    It is further mutually agreed that the Tenant shall have the right to terminate the Tenancy Agreement by the giving of two calendar months notice in writing to the Landlord of their intention so to do the tenancy thus determining upon the expiration of such notice but without prejudice to the rights of either party. Please note, this notice must be given on the rent due date and the expiry date should not fall on either a Sunday or a bank holiday.

    It is further mutually agreed that the Landlord shall have the right to terminate the Tenancy Agreement by the giving of two calendar months notice in writing to the Tenant of their intention so to do the tenancy thus determining upon the expiration of such notice but without prejudice to the rights of either party. Please note, this notice must be given on the rent due date and the expiry date should not fall on either a Sunday or a bank holiday.
    I assume as its reciprocal - the clause and thus AST is valid?

    I thought Section 21s are used to attain possession and did not know that a FORM 6A is to be used.

    The Landlord company has future developments in the pipeline in the area and may want to stay on the right side of the local council. People had complained to an MP caseworker about the lift issue and the owner of the business did reply to the MP caseworker. I am unsure if highlighting this issue to the company owner, may stop the actions of the individual Property Manager and force a reply or compromise. Most would have considered that if a good tenant's partner had done something like this, there would be a warning or something - and not this action against the actual AST tenant?
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 9th Mar 18, 3:41 PM
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    Comms69
    The wording in the AST is the below...



    I assume as its reciprocal - the clause and thus AST is valid?

    I thought Section 21s are used to attain possession and did not know that a FORM 6A is to be used.

    The Landlord company has future developments in the pipeline in the area and may want to stay on the right side of the local council. People had complained to an MP caseworker about the lift issue and the owner of the business did reply to the MP caseworker. I am unsure if highlighting this issue to the company owner, may stop the actions of the individual Property Manager and force a reply or compromise. Most would have considered that if a good tenant's partner had done something like this, there would be a warning or something - and not this action against the actual AST tenant?
    Originally posted by anyadvice4me
    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515658/Form_6A_INTERACTIVE_FINAL_Possession_property.pdf


    Form 6a is the form used. s.21 is the law under which notice is served.


    Please don't be silly. You are one person, who neither the council nor the MP care about. That's not being harsh. People are evicted everyday.


    Planning committees don't hear about this, and certainly aren't allowed to take it into account!
    • anyadvice4me
    • By anyadvice4me 9th Mar 18, 4:18 PM
    • 14 Posts
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    anyadvice4me
    Thanks. I was just unsure if I can go a different route to contact the boss of the Landlord company as an individual property manager can do something which a diplomatic appeal to the boss may change; it would be important to check that leadership are in agreement with the current approach of the property manager.

    There is a Section 33 (Preventing retaliatory eviction) in the Deregulation Act 2015 - I am unsure if I have any grounds for a re-think, on the basis that it may be construed as retaliative action for complaining about the lift service in writing to the property manager. If they have the 2m break clause in the contract I assume this has no weight?
    • anyadvice4me
    • By anyadvice4me 9th Mar 18, 4:21 PM
    • 14 Posts
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    anyadvice4me
    I have not done anything wrong. If they have any evidence/screen shots of an Airbnb listing of the flat - it would not be in my name and not by me. Does this mean that anyone who has pictures of your flat - can post them on Airbnb and then get you evicted?
    • need an answer
    • By need an answer 9th Mar 18, 4:31 PM
    • 576 Posts
    • 692 Thanks
    need an answer
    I have not done anything wrong. If they have any evidence/screen shots of an Airbnb listing of the flat - it would not be in my name and not by me. Does this mean that anyone who has pictures of your flat - can post them on Airbnb and then get you evicted?
    Originally posted by anyadvice4me
    But surely the property has attracted money as a result of it being listed on a commercial website and it is that that is in breach of the lease?

    Maybe the transaction was not made by yourself but you certainly are aware of who did breach the lease terms.
    in S 32 T 32 F 47
    out S 45 T 32 F 38
    2017 -32
    • Boler1985
    • By Boler1985 9th Mar 18, 4:32 PM
    • 180 Posts
    • 104 Thanks
    Boler1985
    I have not done anything wrong. If they have any evidence/screen shots of an Airbnb listing of the flat - it would not be in my name and not by me. Does this mean that anyone who has pictures of your flat - can post them on Airbnb and then get you evicted?
    Originally posted by anyadvice4me
    Yes you have. You allowed someone else into the flat who broke the terms of the rental agreement - that's YOUR fault.

    You seem like a person who is unable or unwilling to take any personal responsiblilty. Stop playing victim.
    • fairy lights
    • By fairy lights 9th Mar 18, 4:40 PM
    • 8,575 Posts
    • 28,531 Thanks
    fairy lights
    I have not done anything wrong. If they have any evidence/screen shots of an Airbnb listing of the flat - it would not be in my name and not by me. Does this mean that anyone who has pictures of your flat - can post them on Airbnb and then get you evicted?
    Originally posted by anyadvice4me
    Oh jeez stop playing the victim.
    The tenancy is in YOUR name and YOU allowed this to happen.
    • anyadvice4me
    • By anyadvice4me 9th Mar 18, 4:45 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    anyadvice4me
    Form 6a is the form used. s.21 is the law under which notice is served. Please don't be silly. You are one person, who neither the council nor the MP care about. That's not being harsh. People are evicted everyday. Planning committees don't hear about this, and certainly aren't allowed to take it into account!
    Originally posted by Comms69
    Thanks. The particular MP for this area has been active in promoting/discussing the sharing economy and Airbnb issue. I think this is part of the Deregulation Bill that was introduced. Thus they may be willing to be more involved.
    • need an answer
    • By need an answer 9th Mar 18, 4:48 PM
    • 576 Posts
    • 692 Thanks
    need an answer
    Thanks. The particular MP for this area has been active in promoting/discussing the sharing economy and Airbnb issue. I think this is part of the Deregulation Bill that was introduced. Thus they may be willing to be more involved.
    Originally posted by anyadvice4me
    The difference possibility being that they are open to the suggestion of airbnb for home owners not tenants.

    I would have thought no MP will want to get involved in something that actively encourages the breach of lease conditions and therefore allows offending tenants to remain
    in S 32 T 32 F 47
    out S 45 T 32 F 38
    2017 -32
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 9th Mar 18, 4:51 PM
    • 2,970 Posts
    • 2,939 Thanks
    Comms69
    Thanks. I was just unsure if I can go a different route to contact the boss of the Landlord company as an individual property manager can do something which a diplomatic appeal to the boss may change; it would be important to check that leadership are in agreement with the current approach of the property manager.

    There is a Section 33 (Preventing retaliatory eviction) in the Deregulation Act 2015 - I am unsure if I have any grounds for a re-think, on the basis that it may be construed as retaliative action for complaining about the lift service in writing to the property manager. If they have the 2m break clause in the contract I assume this has no weight?
    Originally posted by anyadvice4me
    I have not done anything wrong. If they have any evidence/screen shots of an Airbnb listing of the flat - it would not be in my name and not by me. Does this mean that anyone who has pictures of your flat - can post them on Airbnb and then get you evicted?
    Originally posted by anyadvice4me
    Thanks. The particular MP for this area has been active in promoting/discussing the sharing economy and Airbnb issue. I think this is part of the Deregulation Bill that was introduced. Thus they may be willing to be more involved.
    Originally posted by anyadvice4me


    None of this applies. I'm sorry. It doesn't. Wait for court papers and go from there.
    • anyadvice4me
    • By anyadvice4me 9th Mar 18, 5:01 PM
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    anyadvice4me
    Yes you have. You allowed someone else into the flat who broke the terms of the rental agreement - that's YOUR fault. You seem like a person who is unable or unwilling to take any personal responsiblilty. Stop playing victim.
    Originally posted by Boler1985
    There's a difference between finding out and partaking in it.

    If the LL is free to issue a S21 based on the break clause at anytime then they don't need a reason. If they do provide a reason (in this case the Airbnb issue) - then does that provide any defendable position against the action if I had no involvement with it?
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 9th Mar 18, 5:04 PM
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    Comms69
    There's a difference between finding out and partaking in it.

    If the LL is free to issue a S21 based on the break clause at anytime then they don't need a reason. If they do provide a reason (in this case the Airbnb issue) - then does that provide any defendable position against the action if I had no involvement with it?
    Originally posted by anyadvice4me
    FGS NO!


    How are you not getting this?!


    It could've been because you wore a red scarf, or because you opened the door at 5.59pm, and not 6.01pm. Or because the landlord just felt like it.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 9th Mar 18, 6:53 PM
    • 16,720 Posts
    • 41,339 Thanks
    FBaby
    There was no lift in the building for 3months late last year (the flat is on the top floor of the building) - it was hard for my partner to climb the stairs, so he Airbnb'ed it to help pay for things while he was not there and to stop it being empty (there had been a burglary a couple of years ago in a flat downstairs). I had complained to the Landlord about the Lift access and they said at that time I could leave if I did not like it. I have a feeling they may be relating now.
    Are you really believing that this is a reasonable excuse? Your partner is not on the lease, he has no right of his own to be there. He has no right to complain that the lack of a lift was an inconvenience to him, let alone that it a valid reason for deciding to use airbnb.

    In any case, you in your first post that he has done on 'occasions' so not just that time. You make the choice to give your partner keys to the place, you are responsible for his actions.

    Why you would think of yourself as a victim or that you should have any rights not to be evicted is beyond belief. It's time to accept the inevitable.
    • parkrunner
    • By parkrunner 9th Mar 18, 7:34 PM
    • 1,149 Posts
    • 1,814 Thanks
    parkrunner
    I have not done anything wrong. If they have any evidence/screen shots of an Airbnb listing of the flat - it would not be in my name and not by me. Does this mean that anyone who has pictures of your flat - can post them on Airbnb and then get you evicted?
    Originally posted by anyadvice4me
    You are the tenant who has allowed this to happen, you are 100% in the wrong. How on earth can you not understand this, it must be a wind up.
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 9th Mar 18, 9:57 PM
    • 4,540 Posts
    • 2,835 Thanks
    csgohan4
    Wind up, calling it
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land"
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 9th Mar 18, 11:50 PM
    • 31,903 Posts
    • 20,091 Thanks
    DCFC79
    There's a difference between finding out and partaking in it.

    If the LL is free to issue a S21 based on the break clause at anytime then they don't need a reason. If they do provide a reason (in this case the Airbnb issue) - then does that provide any defendable position against the action if I had no involvement with it?
    Originally posted by anyadvice4me
    As far as the LL is concerned your at fault since your name is on the agreement, just accept it and move on.

    Have you bollocked the bf/partmer for this ?

    The OP has posted on the thread with 2 usernames.
    Last edited by DCFC79; 09-03-2018 at 11:57 PM.
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