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  • FIRST POST
    • S Baker
    • By S Baker 1st Mar 18, 11:47 PM
    • 2Posts
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    S Baker
    Probate and property valuation
    • #1
    • 1st Mar 18, 11:47 PM
    Probate and property valuation 1st Mar 18 at 11:47 PM
    I lived with my mum for 20 years and she has recently died. We own the house jointly and it will need to get valued for Probate. It is an unusual house and I imagine difficult to value. I have no idea what it's worth but a wild guess would be 750,000. If I get the house valued and it comes in at something wildly large that means I have to pay tax I am worried I may lose my home of 20 years as I have no cash to pay this debt. Can I get more than one valuation? Does it have to be rics. I am not trying to cheat the system I just don't want to lose my home as well as my mum and a house is only worth what you can sell it for in the end. Many people may not want to buy a house like mine.
Page 1
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 2nd Mar 18, 12:02 AM
    • 4,245 Posts
    • 3,464 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    • #2
    • 2nd Mar 18, 12:02 AM
    • #2
    • 2nd Mar 18, 12:02 AM
    I lived with my mum for 20 years and she has recently died. We own the house jointly and it will need to get valued for Probate. It is an unusual house and I imagine difficult to value. I have no idea what it's worth but a wild guess would be 750,000. If I get the house valued and it comes in at something wildly large that means I have to pay tax I am worried I may lose my home of 20 years as I have no cash to pay this debt. Can I get more than one valuation? Does it have to be rics. I am not trying to cheat the system I just don't want to lose my home as well as my mum and a house is only worth what you can sell it for in the end. Many people may not want to buy a house like mine.
    Originally posted by S Baker
    You need a RICS valuation for probate. Don.t forget only half the value will be included in your mother.s estate. You need to get that done before worrying about the IHT. If the worst comes and you have to sell you will still have a good pile to buy another house and have a substantial sum left over.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 2nd Mar 18, 12:31 AM
    • 5,093 Posts
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    Keep pedalling
    • #3
    • 2nd Mar 18, 12:31 AM
    • #3
    • 2nd Mar 18, 12:31 AM
    Your mothers estate has a nil rate band of £325,000 plus a primary residence nil rate band of £100,000 so her total estate will need to be over £425,000 before IHT kicks in. Assuming you owned the property 50/50 then her share of the property, assuming your guesstimate is correct, is well below the level that any IHT would kick in.

    If she has other assets over £100,000 then there may be some IHT to pay but the house would not need to be sold to pay it. If your mother was a widow, her estate can transfer at least some of his nil rate band to reduce the chance of having to pay IHT even further.
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 2nd Mar 18, 2:51 AM
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    Tom99
    • #4
    • 2nd Mar 18, 2:51 AM
    • #4
    • 2nd Mar 18, 2:51 AM
    It is likely that an RICS valuation submitted with your IHT form is more likely to be accepted that one just provided by yourself or an estate agents valuation.

    I would employ an RICS surveyor as you are valuing only a share of the property not the whole and you are allowed a discount on the full open market value to reflect the fact that a share would be less attractive to sell.

    The VO guidance on valuing half share:

    "Where at the valuation date any co-owner remains in occupation of the property, as their main residence, (other than the co-owner whose share is being valued) the normal approach is to take half the freehold vacant possession value and deduct 15%. This approach is in accordance with the Lands Tribunal decision of Wight and Moss v CIR (264/935/82) full details of which are at paragraph 9 of Practice Note 2."

    Further details can be found here:

    http://manuals.voa.gov.uk/corporate/publications/Manuals/InheritanceTaxManual/sections/r-section_18/b-iht-man-s18.html

    How was your half share acquired, was it a gift from your mother?
    Last edited by Tom99; 03-03-2018 at 12:35 AM.
    • YoungBlueEyes
    • By YoungBlueEyes 2nd Mar 18, 11:42 PM
    • 206 Posts
    • 220 Thanks
    YoungBlueEyes
    • #5
    • 2nd Mar 18, 11:42 PM
    • #5
    • 2nd Mar 18, 11:42 PM
    Just out of interest... what's so unusual about your house that you think people might not want to buy it?
    • S Baker
    • By S Baker 4th Mar 18, 9:11 AM
    • 2 Posts
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    S Baker
    • #6
    • 4th Mar 18, 9:11 AM
    Thank you
    • #6
    • 4th Mar 18, 9:11 AM
    Thank you for your replies. Your excellent information has put my mind at rest that I won't have to pay IHT. I did ring a surveyor and they want to charge £450.00 plus VAT for a RICS survey. A new round of face pulling ensued. This sounds like a lot of money.Is this normal?

    I could, of course, sell the house but it is my family home and I keep my horses here. Finding a house with land is not cheap in this country and while I may move in the next few years (no one else in the family wants the house) I don't want to be forced to move, particularly at this difficult time.

    It is unusual because one end was built 20 years ago and the other end is a listed and derelict 14th-century barn. Someone might want to buy it a try for planning permission and build something really stunning or it might be an outright liability as it is subsiding. Who knows?

    Thank you for your help.

    Sophie
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 4th Mar 18, 9:17 AM
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    Yorkshireman99
    • #7
    • 4th Mar 18, 9:17 AM
    • #7
    • 4th Mar 18, 9:17 AM
    Thank you for your replies. Your excellent information has put my mind at rest that I won't have to pay IHT. I did ring a surveyor and they want to charge £450.00 plus VAT for a RICS survey. A new round of face pulling ensued. This sounds like a lot of money.Is this normal?

    I could, of course, sell the house but it is my family home and I keep my horses here. Finding a house with land is not cheap in this country and while I may move in the next few years (no one else in the family wants the house) I don't want to be forced to move, particularly at this difficult time.

    It is unusual because one end was built 20 years ago and the other end is a listed and derelict 14th-century barn. Someone might want to buy it a try for planning permission and build something really stunning or it might be an outright liability as it is subsiding. Who knows?

    Thank you for your help.

    Sophie
    Originally posted by S Baker
    £450 plus VAT would be qite normal for a full RICS valuation. What you would be paying for is expertise and all the overheads survetors have.
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 4th Mar 18, 9:27 AM
    • 2,233 Posts
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    Tom99
    • #8
    • 4th Mar 18, 9:27 AM
    • #8
    • 4th Mar 18, 9:27 AM
    £450 + VAT is certainly not excessive and since you admit the property is difficult to value may be worthwhile.

    You do not have to use an RICS valuation, you can come up with your own figure or use an estate agent particularly if you can be sure the estate is well within the Nil rate band.

    However if IHT turned out to be payable and the VO think you have not taken enough care and put forward a low figure, I believe you can be issued with a penalty.
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 4th Mar 18, 10:24 AM
    • 8,191 Posts
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    Owain Moneysaver
    • #9
    • 4th Mar 18, 10:24 AM
    • #9
    • 4th Mar 18, 10:24 AM
    You can try asking some other surveyors firms for a quote but it's probably going to be an expense you'll have to meet.

    If there is tax to pay then you may be able to raise money against the house either as a mortgage which you pay off monthly from income, or as equity release which is paid off when you die (take appropriate advice before borrowing money secured on the property, but there are options which may be open to you without an outright sale of the property to pay the IHT bill).

    You have I think six months from date of death to make the IHT payment without penalty, after that time interest/fees may be charged, but it is possible to delay payment of some/all of the tax depending on circumstances and by agreement with HMRC.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 4th Mar 18, 10:41 AM
    • 32,185 Posts
    • 19,344 Thanks
    getmore4less
    I lived with my mum for 20 years and she has recently died.
    Any predeceased spouse(s)?
    • nom de plume
    • By nom de plume 5th Mar 18, 10:32 AM
    • 695 Posts
    • 646 Thanks
    nom de plume
    The property needs to be valued at what it "might reasonably be expected to fetch if sold in the open market". This would include anything that has potential to affect it's sale price such as in your words "Someone might want to buy it a try for planning permission and build something really stunning"

    If it's value is likely to come in much higher than your opening post suggested then the answer to getmore4less' post may be relevant.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 5th Mar 18, 1:17 PM
    • 4,245 Posts
    • 3,464 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    Thank you for your replies. Your excellent information has put my mind at rest that I won't have to pay IHT. I did ring a surveyor and they want to charge £450.00 plus VAT for a RICS survey. A new round of face pulling ensued. This sounds like a lot of money.Is this normal?

    I could, of course, sell the house but it is my family home and I keep my horses here. Finding a house with land is not cheap in this country and while I may move in the next few years (no one else in the family wants the house) I don't want to be forced to move, particularly at this difficult time.

    It is unusual because one end was built 20 years ago and the other end is a listed and derelict 14th-century barn. Someone might want to buy it a try for planning permission and build something really stunning or it might be an outright liability as it is subsiding. Who knows?

    Thank you for your help.

    Sophie
    Originally posted by S Baker
    That shows even more how much you need urgent professional advice. You will not be allowed to let a listed building fall down. The local planning authority can, and probably will serve a repair order on you. if so, and you do nothing they will do the work and charge you.
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