Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • ALLSOP
    • By ALLSOP 1st Mar 18, 2:08 PM
    • 9Posts
    • 5Thanks
    ALLSOP
    PCN Letter from Napier Parking and BW Legal
    • #1
    • 1st Mar 18, 2:08 PM
    PCN Letter from Napier Parking and BW Legal 1st Mar 18 at 2:08 PM
    Hello, I'm looking for some advice in dealing with a PCN from Napier Parking and their legal team BW Legal. I'm in London UK

    Background Info
    I had received a £90 PCN from Napier Parking 2 years ago on 11/03/2016 for my previous car (sold 25/12/2016). Reason for issue: parking or waiting on roadway or on verge/footpath. There was only 1 small sign hidden away behind the open gate.

    I ignored all the letters, including last debt collector letter on 05/12/2016. Then 2 years later on 19/01/2018 I get this letter from BW Legal, their legal team. They are demanding the £90 PCN and £60 legal cost, a total of £150.

    I have made a formal request for all the information / documents as required by the pre-action protocol for debt claims; I have sent this letter below on 04/02/2018:


    Dear Sir/Madam,

    I am in receipt of your Letter Before Claim of 19th January 2018. Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon.

    Your client must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.

    Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2). Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure to comply to the attention of the court, and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply, and when costs come to be considered.

    As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October 2017 and the Protocol which applies thereafter (and your client, as a serial litigator of small claims, should likewise be aware of them). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and un-evidenced 'Letter Before Claim'; in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.

    Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.
    I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

    1. An explanation of the cause of action;
    2. Whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper;
    3. Whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012;
    4. What the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated;
    5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract;
    6. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details;
    7. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1 "establishing yourself as the creditor";
    8. A plan showing where any signs were displayed;
    9. Details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed);
    10. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added;
    11. Provide a copy of the Information Sheet and Reply Form;

    If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) - Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

    Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

    Yours faithfully
    I have received a reply letter from BW Legal on 19/02/2018. They have failed to provide me with all the information / documents I requested, as they have just attached the original PCN with the date and time of incident, reason for issue, and photographic evidence of car and sign.

    Question: Do I ignore them? As they have not provided me with all the information I asked for in my letter.
    If I reply, what do I put in reply letter and how can I get them to cancel PCN?

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Regards,
    ALLSOP
    Last edited by ALLSOP; 01-03-2018 at 2:11 PM.
Page 2
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 9th Apr 18, 2:47 PM
    • 4,114 Posts
    • 4,987 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Ask a board guide to move your threads into one
    Dont open new threads for the same case.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Apr 18, 2:48 PM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,455 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    We will reply further on your original thread, once merged. Send a pm to Crabman or soolin.
    • ALLSOP
    • By ALLSOP 9th Apr 18, 3:42 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    ALLSOP
    You can see how busy this forum is.

    You do need to keep everything in the one thread.

    You can find your other thread via your user profile

    Ask a board guide to merge your threads.
    Ask a board guide to move your threads into one
    Dont open new threads for the same case.
    We will reply further on your original thread, once merged. Send a pm to Crabman or soolin.
    Have sent Private Message to Crabman and soolin, requesting merge of threads. I'm a new member on this Forum and could not find my old thread.

    Its been 1hr no reply, are you sure 'newbies' can send PM's? and

    Can you answer Question while we wait for Thread to be merged?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Apr 18, 3:55 PM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,455 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes you can send a pm, are soolin or Crabman even online?

    You can see if their light is on. Give them a chance! They normally post in the evenings I think.

    You could have clicked on you own username to find your thread in less than a second.

    You would be best spending the time while you wait for your merged threads, searching the forum for BW Legal Napier or BW Legal claim to read how useless they are!

    QUESTIONS:
    What would you do given this situation? I would respond again, telling them and Napier to stop threatening you with heavy costs for daring to defend a baseless parking charge claim, and asking for their evidence of who was driving, and whether they are relying on the POFA or not.

    If they make Small Claim, what are my chances of winning?
    On this forum if you stick around and get help at all stages/miss no deadlines, we win 99% of them! Just two were lost last year, and just one has been reported lost in 2018, among well over 350/400 cases where we assisted in the past 16 months or so (since 2017 started, is when I started to keep data).

    What is a good defence against Court Claim?
    See the examples in the NEWBIES thread, in particular a registered keeper's defence if the driver has not been identified.

    Does CCJ have negative effect on credit rating? A CCJ would do in the end yes, but you will not get a CCJ. A CCJ is not a 'court claim'. You would have to:

    - ignore the claim (which you won't), or
    - miss deadlines to respond (which you won't) or
    - lose a defended claim (unlikely, but)
    - even a lost case gives you 30 days to pay after judgment. NO CCJ REMAINS AT ALL.
    • ALLSOP
    • By ALLSOP 10th Apr 18, 12:32 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    ALLSOP
    I would respond again, telling them and Napier to stop threatening you with heavy costs for daring to defend a baseless parking charge claim, and asking for their evidence of who was driving, and whether they are relying on the POFA or not.
    Napier Parking Final Reminder states they will be relying on PoFA 2012, Quote follows:
    Further to our previous correspondence, we write to inform you that as this Fixed Charge Notice has not been paid, we intend to recover the unpaid charges from you as the Registered Keeper, as is our right under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012

    See the examples in the NEWBIES thread, in particular a registered keeper's defence if the driver has not been identified.
    Thanks,
    I Have been searching the Forumn, and I don't understand the registered keeper defence. According to PoFA 2012 and parking cowboys (keeper liability), the PPC must have complied with all the procedural steps set-out in PoFA 2012 in order to be able to recover the parking charge from the Registered Keeper.

    So, there is Keeper Liability if PoFA 2012 requirements are met? if so how can I use Registered Keeper defence?

    PoFA 2012 Requirements are as follows:
    The Notice to Keeper

    Schedule 4 paragraphs 8 and 9 of the PoFA stipulates the mandatory information that must be included in the Notice to Keeper. If all of this information is not present then the Notice to Keeper is invalid and the condition set out in paragraph 6 of Schedule 4 has not been complied with. Failure to comply with paragraph 6 means that the registered keeper cannot be held to account for the alleged debt of the driver.

    • Specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates

    • Advise that the driver is liable for the parking charge and the amount and that it has not been paid in full

    • State whether a notice to the driver was given either to the driver or placed on the vehicle and if so to repeat
      the information in that notice about paying the parking charge and when

    • Specify the outstanding amount of the parking charge and of the maximum additional costs they may seek to recover,
      and of the dispute resolution arrangements

    • Invite the registered keeper to pay the outstanding parking charge or, if he was not the driver, to provide the name and address of the driver and to pass a copy of the notice on to that driver

    • Warn the keeper that if the parking charges remains outstanding after 28 days and the name and address of the driver has not been given, or otherwise known to the person entitled to the parking charge, that “creditor” will be entitled to recover the parking charge from the registered keeper.

    • Details of the discount for payment within 14 days, The Discount should be at least 40% of the full charge under the BPA Code of Practice (applies to BPA Members only)


    • Identify the “creditor” who is legally entitled to recover the parking charge


    • Date of the notice

    Schedule 4 paragraphs 8(5) or 9(5) specify the time limits for serving a Notice to Keeper. If this is not complied with then the registered keeper cannot be held to account for the alleged debt of the driver.
    The PPC meets the above requirements, apart from identifying 'creditor'. Who is the 'creditor' Napier Parking or Land Owner?

    I have read PoFA 2012 (schedule 4, paragraph 6), I don't see how i can use this as defence. Maybe I have missed something...
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Apr 18, 12:35 AM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,455 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Show us the Notice to Keeper. Last time I looked at a Napier one I don't think they complied.

    If not, just look at any BW LEGAL Defence (those being the keywords to search) & adapt one. Have you done this?

    You would be best spending the time while you wait for your merged threads, searching the forum for BW Legal Napier or BW Legal claim to read how useless they are!
    • Crabman
    • By Crabman 12th Apr 18, 8:05 PM
    • 9,711 Posts
    • 7,146 Thanks
    Crabman
    Duplicate threads have been merged
    I'm a Board Guide on the Savings & Investments, ISAs & Tax-free Savings, Public Transport & Cycling, Motoring and Parking Fines, Tickets & Parking Boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Board Guides are not moderators & don't read every post. If you spot a contentious or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com

    • ALLSOP
    • By ALLSOP 15th Apr 18, 1:41 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    ALLSOP
    I would like to thank everyone that's posted information and letter templates on this Forum. After 2 years and 15 Letters from Napier Parking and BW Legal, Napier have sent the following Letter/Email cancelling the PCN.

    Without Prejudice.

    We have reviewed this case and despite the Fixed Charge Notice being issued correctly we have decided that on this occasion we are not going to pursue it further. The case has therefore been cancelled and we have instructed BW Legal to cease further legal action.

    No further action is therefore required.

    In future when parking on private land please observe the clearly displayed Terms and Conditions.

    Yours sincerely
    Enforcement Department
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

3,028Posts Today

8,377Users online

Martin's Twitter