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  • FIRST POST
    • Lee Lucky Nut
    • By Lee Lucky Nut 28th Feb 18, 5:25 PM
    • 12Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Lee Lucky Nut
    Welcome Finance Underwriters
    • #1
    • 28th Feb 18, 5:25 PM
    Welcome Finance Underwriters 28th Feb 18 at 5:25 PM
    Hello all,
    I am brand new to this forum and looking to see if anyone out there would know who was the 'underwriter' for Welcome Finance Ltd in 1999 ?
    I took out a Hire Purchase agreement which had PPI on there (I still have the paperwork) but it is proving very difficult to find out who was the underwriter at the time.
    Any help would be greatly appreciated !
Page 2
    • sun73
    • By sun73 9th Mar 18, 9:14 PM
    • 405 Posts
    • 128 Thanks
    sun73
    I wonder if they did their own in house underwriting of PPI policies. Have you looked at the FCA register? Often that can provide a timeline of company names, permissions, regulators etc I seem to remember the name Cattles is mentioned in connection with Welcome Finance.
    • jellie
    • By jellie 9th Mar 18, 11:13 PM
    • 836 Posts
    • 680 Thanks
    jellie
    The underwriter method only works in a tiny number of cases and only if the commercial agreement and dates all align.

    From my reading here, the underwriters were Aviva. However, they are only liable for the pre-regulation period from June 2003 until January 2005.

    So, with yours being 1999, that is before June 2003 and therefore outside the period that Aviva are liable.

    Insurance was not regulated until January 2005. So, a breach of regulation cannot occur if the regulation didnt exist. However, there was an earlier body which operated a voluntary code and Aviva are responsible for that period. That is June 2003 to Jan 2005. Prior to that there were no regulations. So, no breach of regulations can occur.

    Banks have to go back further because of their regulatory position historically. That is why dates dont matter with them.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    For info for future posters, Welcome Finance were under GISC from Feb 2003. So they would have to deal with any PPI complaint themselves from that date until Jan 2005.
    • jellie
    • By jellie 9th Mar 18, 11:16 PM
    • 836 Posts
    • 680 Thanks
    jellie
    I wonder if they did their own in house underwriting of PPI policies. Have you looked at the FCA register? Often that can provide a timeline of company names, permissions, regulators etc I seem to remember the name Cattles is mentioned in connection with Welcome Finance.
    Originally posted by sun73
    Cattles was Welcome's parent company.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 9th Mar 18, 11:35 PM
    • 20,162 Posts
    • 11,106 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    Welcome Finance were under GISC from Feb 2003. So they would have to deal with any PPI complaint themselves from that date until Jan 2005.
    Originally posted by jellie
    Irrelevant information for the OP of this thread, of course, whose complaint dates from 1999.
    I have received another follow up (letter) from Welcome which says they can't take my claim any further but if I do manage to find out who the underwriter was then they will investigate
    Originally posted by Lee Lucky Nut
    So Welcome themselves can't tell you the identity of the Underwriter, but they magnanimously offer to "investigate" if you find out?
    • sun73
    • By sun73 10th Mar 18, 8:48 PM
    • 405 Posts
    • 128 Thanks
    sun73
    I found something on another forum which might help. A poster replied to another who was looking for the name of the underwriter in 1999 and they had a PPI policy leaflet dated 1997 that was issued with a Welcome finance loan in 1999.

    It said the underwriter was a consortium consisting of AA Cassidy, Scor UK and Zurich Insurance. Its on the Legal Beagles forum dated 24/3/2015
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 10th Mar 18, 9:19 PM
    • 20,162 Posts
    • 11,106 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    the underwriter was a consortium consisting of AA Cassidy, Scor UK and Zurich Insurance
    Originally posted by sun73
    Well that certainly sounds like a useful lead.
    Regardless of whether they were the underwriters, does that "consortium" even exist anymore?
    If not, it's a dead end.

    If they still exist, I suspect it's still a dead end.
    • sun73
    • By sun73 11th Mar 18, 1:41 AM
    • 405 Posts
    • 128 Thanks
    sun73
    I believe Zurich insurance is alive and kicking. I certainly hope so because my life policy is with them.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 11th Mar 18, 8:42 AM
    • 20,162 Posts
    • 11,106 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    I believe Zurich insurance is alive and kicking.
    Originally posted by sun73
    I was referring to the "consortium" you found mentioned on another forum.

    An anonymous poster (yourself) referencing another anonymous poster without even giving a proper link to the actual comment ??

    Are you now recommending the OP contact Zurich on the strength of that? Seriously?
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 11th Mar 18, 11:43 AM
    • 92,656 Posts
    • 59,977 Thanks
    dunstonh
    What was the name of this consortium? Has companies house been checked to see if it is still open? Is it still authorised by the FCA?

    If the company was closed and no longer has FCA permissions then you ar looking at the FSCS. However, its pre 2005. So, the FSCS wont consider it.

    So, knowing the status of this company is going to be key.

    It said the underwriter was a consortium consisting of AA Cassidy, Scor UK and Zurich Insurance. Its on the Legal Beagles forum dated 24/3/2015
    The thread died. Indicating it went nowhere. There was a similar thread on the consumer action group. That thread died too despite the main poster going on about taking legal action (despite it being over 15 years ago and statute barred).

    There was also a thread here from a poster that was not giving up and they made posts about it between 2008 and 2012 and got nowhere.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • jellie
    • By jellie 11th Mar 18, 11:59 AM
    • 836 Posts
    • 680 Thanks
    jellie
    For info for future posters, Welcome Finance were under GISC from Feb 2003. So they would have to deal with any PPI complaint themselves from that date until Jan 2005.
    Originally posted by jellie
    Irrelevant information for the OP of this thread, of course, whose complaint dates from 1999.
    Originally posted by Moneyineptitude
    That'll be why I stated it was for info for future posters (did you miss that bit - you haven't quoted it) & clarified the relevant dates.

    It's irrelevant for this OP, but not for others looking for information on this particular company.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 11th Mar 18, 2:18 PM
    • 92,656 Posts
    • 59,977 Thanks
    dunstonh
    This is what the FCA say in PS10/12

    If a firm was not a member of GISC at the time (and not already FSA authorised), then in most cases complaints about
    that firm!!!8217;s pre-2005 business will not be within the scope of DISP (and thus our finalised PPI complaint handling
    provisions) anyway. The existing complaints handling rules apply to the pre-January 2005 mediation of policies where
    the firm is FSA authorised post-Janaury 2005 and was covered by GISC at the time of the sale and the subject matter
    of the complaint would have been covered by GISC.
    --

    This is why the dates GISC membership are important. The FCA does also note that "Prior to January 2005, the General Insurance Standards Council (GISC) Code and, prior to the GISC Code, the Association of British Insurers (ABI) Code, constituted the industry codes of good practice in relation to the sale of insurance"

    It goes on to explain the areas where the GISC principles align with the FCA. The GISC code was from 2001.

    The ABI had a code of practice from 1989 for intermediaries and areas there overlap and are taken into consideration.

    So, a firm would have to be regulated after 14th Jan 2005 and have been a member of those respective bodies at the date of sale for them to be liable.

    If the firm deregulated prior to 14th Jan 2005 but was a member of the ABI or GISC then its game over.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 11th Mar 18, 8:30 PM
    • 20,162 Posts
    • 11,106 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    It's irrelevant for this OP
    Originally posted by jellie
    Correct, that's why I was basically saying it's off-topic for this thread.

    Sorry if you misunderstood.
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