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  • FIRST POST
    • macleaver
    • By macleaver 27th Feb 18, 12:43 PM
    • 10Posts
    • 4Thanks
    macleaver
    POPLA Pending comments
    • #1
    • 27th Feb 18, 12:43 PM
    POPLA Pending comments 27th Feb 18 at 12:43 PM
    Hi all, total newbie to this, so after a little advice, I received a non official NCP parking fine whilst at a train station car park, last month. I appealed to them, they declined, so I appealed with POPLA, they have now received a response from NCP, (over 2 weeks later!) , now they are waiting my comments. Just after some advice on what to write to strengthen my appeal.
    Quick bullet points below:
    - Got to car park and took ticket from machine
    - Drove round car park several times (7-10 mins or so), to find no spaces available - surely the machine should not distribute tickets if the car park is full, or there should be a sign saying FULL.
    - Had a train to catch to London fo ran important meeting
    - after drving round and finding no spaces apart from a huge one with white lines in it, with no visible signs stating no paring at anytime. (photos to prove)
    - made the decision to park there, as I had seem other motorists parked on these white lined spaces that day due to full car park. Had to do something or I would have missed my train.
    - I was not blocking anyone from entry/exit to anywhere.
    - I was not blocking any vehicles in
    - The space was plenty big enough for my car. (photos to prove)

    NCP have come back to POPLA saying I should have read the sign at the ticket machine upon entry - I was already running late, and who has time to read these signs.
    NCP have come back to POPLA saying I should have read the sign at the pay machine - you only pay for your ticket upon returning to the train station - so I would never have read this until later that evening.

    So frustrating that I was given access to a car park that was full, and now I am being penalised.

    Grateful for any help and advice for my comments I can add to my response to POPLA

    Thanks
Page 1
    • pogofish
    • By pogofish 27th Feb 18, 2:19 PM
    • 8,502 Posts
    • 8,818 Thanks
    pogofish
    • #2
    • 27th Feb 18, 2:19 PM
    • #2
    • 27th Feb 18, 2:19 PM
    Little of this matters to POPLA - get to the Newbies Sticky to see what does.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 28th Feb 18, 1:03 AM
    • 57,564 Posts
    • 71,136 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 28th Feb 18, 1:03 AM
    • #3
    • 28th Feb 18, 1:03 AM
    Have you shot several toes off by saying who was driving? Oooops...
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • macleaver
    • By macleaver 28th Feb 18, 10:18 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    macleaver
    • #4
    • 28th Feb 18, 10:18 AM
    • #4
    • 28th Feb 18, 10:18 AM
    possibly, not actually said my name as the driver!
    • macleaver
    • By macleaver 28th Feb 18, 10:20 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    macleaver
    • #5
    • 28th Feb 18, 10:20 AM
    • #5
    • 28th Feb 18, 10:20 AM
    thanks Pogofish, any links to the area on the newbies would be a great help and much appreciated
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 28th Feb 18, 10:24 AM
    • 57,564 Posts
    • 71,136 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 28th Feb 18, 10:24 AM
    • #6
    • 28th Feb 18, 10:24 AM
    Easier to search 'POPLA comments' and read the discussions on other threads this past week, giving people tips on what to look for and concentrate on - the comments must be BRIEF. Do not repeat your appeal. Do not bark up the wrong tree.

    Saves us repeating ourselves with the same advice, and better use of the forum for you, in finding things by a single search.

    Always do an 'advanced' search and ALWAYS change to 'show posts' (never 'threads' = horrible view!).

    When you appealed online you probably chose 'driver' in the drop-down menu? ...the 100% winning appeal point (no keeper liability) disappeared, if so.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 28-02-2018 at 10:26 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 28th Feb 18, 1:04 PM
    • 17,655 Posts
    • 27,911 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #7
    • 28th Feb 18, 1:04 PM
    • #7
    • 28th Feb 18, 1:04 PM
    possibly, not actually said my name as the driver!
    Originally posted by macleaver
    'I' normally does the job!
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • macleaver
    • By macleaver 28th Feb 18, 2:00 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    macleaver
    • #8
    • 28th Feb 18, 2:00 PM
    • #8
    • 28th Feb 18, 2:00 PM
    so far I have these comments to add to my POPLA appeal. grateful for any help/advice and comments

    NCP have provided no evidence of landowner authority for parking enforcement in the Car Park at Wigan North Western Train Station Car Park, Wigan. Instead they have supplied a copy of their terms and conditions for parking enforcement which is unreadable from within a vehicle when entering the car park.
    NCP have provided a picture to prove this fact above. On the photo evidence given by NCP, with a circle drawn around the entrance barrier and the carpark T&C!!!8217;s !!!8211; you will see how far this is away from the entrance, and even the drivers with the best vision in the world would not be able to read this from that distance. You would need to get out of your vehicle and actually go up to the sign to read this.
    NCP state - !!!8220;We appreciate the motorist!!!8217;s comments; however, they have not parked within a marked bay as per the car parks displayed Terms and Conditions!!!8221; !!!8211; Car Park was full. There were no free marked bays for the vehicle to park in, otherwise it would have gone in one.
    NCP state - !!!8220;the motorist parked in the access road for vehicles to drive around the car park or exit accordingly!!!8221; !!!8211; The vehicle was not parked in any access road. The vehicle was not blocking any right of way for other vehicles or pedestrians. The vehicle was not blocking any exit entry.
    !!!8220;Were all of our customers to share this sentiment, and park their cars wherever they deemed appropriate, then this would pose a significant risk to pedestrians, drivers and their vehicles.!!!8221; !!!8211; On that day other vehicles had to park in similar areas, CCTV footage will show this. The Vehicle was not posing any significant risk to pedestrians, drivers or other vehicles. Photos and CCTV footage will show this.
    On the photo evidence given by NCP, with an arrow pointing to !!!8220;Please Park in mark bays. Vehicles causing an obstruction may be removed!!!8221; !!!8211; The vehicle was not causing any obstruction, BUT according to NCP!!!8217;s statement !!!8220;the motorist parked in the access road for vehicles to drive around the car park or exit accordingly!!!8221; !!!8211; therefore, should the vehicle have been removed/towed away if this was the case?
    On the photo evidence given by NCP, with an arrow pointing to !!!8220;Terms and conditions of Parking!!!8221; !!!8211; this is unviewable from within a vehicle collecting a ticket from the entrance barrier. Also, if every vehicle was to stop and read this each time the entered the carpark, you would have a huge tail back getting into the carpark.
    T&C Point 5. Parking Contraventions - 5.1a !!!8220;You comply with all signs in the Car Park!!!8221; !!!8211; But there were no signs at, around or near the area where the vehicle was parked. 5.1b !!!8220;you park within the limits of a marked bay!!!8221; !!!8211; No bays available for vehicle. Entry ticket machine should have displayed a Car Park Full sign. Entry ticket machine should not release tickets if car park is full.
    I require NCP to provide the following information/documents, for this alleged parking event.
    1. Any photographic or other evidence they have of the vehicle being !!!8220;parked in the access road for vehicles to drive around the car park or exit!!!8221;
    2. A copy of the contract between NCP and the landowner under which they claim authority to bring the claim and authority to issue parking charges on the date in question.
    3. A plan of the land in question showing where any signs were displayed.
    4. Details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
    • macleaver
    • By macleaver 28th Feb 18, 2:02 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    macleaver
    • #9
    • 28th Feb 18, 2:02 PM
    • #9
    • 28th Feb 18, 2:02 PM
    ignore the !!!8221 and !!!8211 numbers word has carried over during the copy and paste process!
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 28th Feb 18, 2:05 PM
    • 7,261 Posts
    • 6,783 Thanks
    KeithP
    ignore the !!!8221 and !!!8211 numbers word has carried over during the copy and paste process!
    Originally posted by macleaver
    Well edit them out then. Not difficult.
    .
    • macleaver
    • By macleaver 12th Mar 18, 8:25 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    macleaver
    Help with POPLA operator evidence comments - I have received an unsuccessful decision from POPLA, however, reading their comments I am now confused, as they finish by saying they must allow this appeal, see below. Anyone have any advice on how to proceed with this one?? Thanks

    While I note that the appellant has raised a number of grounds of appeal, my report will focus solely on signage as this supersedes other aspects of the appeal. I refer to Section 18.1 of the British Parking Association Code of Practice, which outlines to operators: !!!8220;The driver!!!8217;s use of your land will be governed by your terms and conditions, which the driver must be made aware of from the start. You must use signs to make it easy for them to find out what your terms and conditions are!!!8221;. Further, Section 18.3 states: !!!8220;You must place signs containing the specific parking terms throughout the site, so that drivers are given the chance to read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle!!!8230; signs must be conspicuous and legible, and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to see, read and understand!!!8221;. In response to this appeal, the operator has provided several photographs of the signage at the site. While I am satisfied that the operator has provided sufficient evidence of the terms and conditions, I am not satisfied that the operator has demonstrated the location and the distribution of the signs. As such, I am unable to determine whether the appellant was presented with a reasonable opportunity to review and comply with them. Therefore, I cannot conclude that the PCN was issued correctly. Accordingly, I must allow this appeal.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 12th Mar 18, 8:34 AM
    • 17,655 Posts
    • 27,911 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I have received an unsuccessful decision from POPLA
    But that's a SUCCESSFUL appeal decision. It says so.

    As such, I am unable to determine whether the appellant was presented with a reasonable opportunity to review and comply with them. Therefore, I cannot conclude that the PCN was issued correctly. Accordingly, I must allow this appeal.
    Why do you think it was unsuccessful? Was that the statement at the top of the appeal decision, just above the assessor's name?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • macleaver
    • By macleaver 12th Mar 18, 10:12 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    macleaver
    thanks Umkomaas, this is how I read it too. However, at the top of my appeal, I have the big red X saying unsuccessful, and also on the decision line it says unsuccessful.
    Anyone know how I can respond to POPLA with this one. Very confusion indeed
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 12th Mar 18, 10:38 AM
    • 35,624 Posts
    • 19,852 Thanks
    Quentin
    Write to them and point out their admin error and ask them to confirm that they have corrected it and informed the PPC
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Mar 18, 6:47 PM
    • 57,564 Posts
    • 71,136 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    thanks Umkomaas, this is how I read it too. However, at the top of my appeal, I have the big red X saying unsuccessful, and also on the decision line it says unsuccessful.
    Anyone know how I can respond to POPLA with this one. Very confusion indeed
    Originally posted by macleaver
    Yes, you just email them of course. Like others have done when the same thing happened.

    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 12th Mar 18, 7:34 PM
    • 17,655 Posts
    • 27,911 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    thanks Umkomaas, this is how I read it too. However, at the top of my appeal, I have the big red X saying unsuccessful, and also on the decision line it says unsuccessful.
    Anyone know how I can respond to POPLA with this one. Very confusion indeed
    Originally posted by macleaver
    Appalling attention to detail by the assessor, even worse management oversight by those paid to supervise the whole process.

    It's starting to smack of a workload that is becoming unmanageable - if not, why the increasing incidences of sloppy copy and pastes and conflicting statements within the same assessment, as in this case?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • macleaver
    • By macleaver 13th Mar 18, 8:09 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    macleaver
    thanks all, I have e-mailed them and await their response! I will keep you all posted.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 13th Mar 18, 8:13 AM
    • 9,209 Posts
    • 8,980 Thanks
    The Deep
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and a smaller company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They nearly always lose) and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind most of these companies may well be put out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • macleaver
    • By macleaver 13th Mar 18, 3:05 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    macleaver
    Result - received a reply from POPLA

    Dear Michael

    Thank you for your email.

    Your appeal was allowed, the incorrect option was chosen. Please accept our apologies.

    I have attached the outcome to this email, we have also made the parking operator aware of the error.

    Regards

    POPLA Team


    No Attachment to the e-mail, but none the less, I got the result I rightly deserved. Lets stop these criminals scamming the public with high inflated parking charges!

    Thanks for all your help and advice
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Mar 18, 1:18 AM
    • 57,564 Posts
    • 71,136 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Well done!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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