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  • FIRST POST
    • shiwen55
    • By shiwen55 27th Feb 18, 4:22 AM
    • 51Posts
    • 3Thanks
    shiwen55
    what defines 'disabled'
    • #1
    • 27th Feb 18, 4:22 AM
    what defines 'disabled' 27th Feb 18 at 4:22 AM
    Hi,


    If you receive PIP, does it mean you are disabled? Thank you


    shiwen55
Page 1
    • tomtom256
    • By tomtom256 27th Feb 18, 7:23 AM
    • 939 Posts
    • 1,714 Thanks
    tomtom256
    • #2
    • 27th Feb 18, 7:23 AM
    • #2
    • 27th Feb 18, 7:23 AM
    No, but an award letter is often accepted as proof of having a disability.

    Disability is defined by https://www.gov.uk/definition-of-disability-under-equality-act-2010
    • Danday
    • By Danday 27th Feb 18, 9:24 AM
    • 354 Posts
    • 63 Thanks
    Danday
    • #3
    • 27th Feb 18, 9:24 AM
    • #3
    • 27th Feb 18, 9:24 AM
    Being awarded PIP does not in itself mean that you are disabled. All it means is that you have qualified for it based on fitting certain descriptors.

    There are many disabled people that don't receive PIP as the descriptors do not exactly fit.
    There used to be a disabled person's register held by the councils' but how you used to qualify I have no idea.
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 27th Feb 18, 10:12 AM
    • 8,284 Posts
    • 1,961 Thanks
    50Twuncle
    • #4
    • 27th Feb 18, 10:12 AM
    • #4
    • 27th Feb 18, 10:12 AM
    Councils stopped registration for disabled persons - about 20 years ago !
    https://www.gov.uk/if-you-become-disabled
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 27th Feb 18, 2:39 PM
    • 9,037 Posts
    • 5,387 Thanks
    teddysmum
    • #5
    • 27th Feb 18, 2:39 PM
    • #5
    • 27th Feb 18, 2:39 PM
    The spectrum of ability ranges from those capable of doing beyond anything they need to being unable to even breath without assistance. The latter is obvious disability but the change from this to the other extreme is very gradual, so it's impossible to draw a line at the exact place where disability ceases to exist.


    Two people with exactly the same problems could apply for a benefit,but one acts up their suffering while the other is keen to show what they are still capable of doing and, unfortunately, it's likely to be the former who wins benefit, but this still doesn't mean that one is now disabled, while the rejected one is not.


    As most people get at least aches and pains when in their late sixties,the range for over 65s is narrower, but if getting benefit (AA) defines disability ,then one has to have more problems, to be deemed disabled, than someone under 65,because the criteria for AA are stricter than those for PIP and especially DLA.
    • _shel
    • By _shel 28th Feb 18, 7:46 AM
    • 1,158 Posts
    • 2,007 Thanks
    _shel
    • #6
    • 28th Feb 18, 7:46 AM
    • #6
    • 28th Feb 18, 7:46 AM
    Councils stopped registration for disabled persons - about 20 years ago !
    https://www.gov.uk/if-you-become-disabled
    Originally posted by 50Twuncle
    Our council registers disabled children and uses the legal definition

    "You’re disabled under the Equality Act 2010 if you have a physical or mental impairment that has a ‘substantial’ and ‘long-term’ negative effect on your ability to do normal daily activities."
    • matrix11001
    • By matrix11001 5th Mar 18, 11:46 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    matrix11001
    • #7
    • 5th Mar 18, 11:46 PM
    Councils still registering people as disabled
    • #7
    • 5th Mar 18, 11:46 PM
    Councils stopped registration for disabled persons - about 20 years ago !
    https://www.gov.uk/if-you-become-disabled
    Originally posted by 50Twuncle
    You might want to check with your council as Plymouth still do it - might be a legal requirement as they also need people registered for their figures/funding I expect. I don't think you get life time registered now, but for a few years (renewable)
    • Danday
    • By Danday 6th Mar 18, 7:04 PM
    • 354 Posts
    • 63 Thanks
    Danday
    • #8
    • 6th Mar 18, 7:04 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Mar 18, 7:04 PM
    As most people get at least aches and pains when in their late sixties,the range for over 65s is narrower, but if getting benefit (AA) defines disability ,then one has to have more problems, to be deemed disabled, than someone under 65,because the criteria for AA are stricter than those for PIP and especially DLA.
    Originally posted by teddysmum
    I don't entirely agree that the AA criteria is stricter than for PIP.

    With AA the guidelines are fairly well expressed

    Washing: does your relative need help getting in and out of the bath or shower, washing their hair or shaving?
    Going to the toilet: does your relative need help going to the toilet during the day or night? Do they suffer from incontinence? Might they need help with changing beds?
    Getting dressed or undressed: does your relative need help with this?
    Mealtimes: does your relative need any help with eating or drinking? Do they have difficulty operating the oven, opening cans or doing other things in the kitchen?
    Medical treatment: do they understand which medication to take when? Can they operate medical devices (such as a hearing aid) or safely manage any illnesses (such as diabetes) by themselves?
    Getting around indoors: does your relative need help navigating stairs, moving from room to room, getting in and out of chairs or bed? Aids and adaptations to list include a hoist, bed- raiser or monkey pole (an under-bed, overhead support pole to help someone lift themselves into a sitting position); a commode or raised toilet seat; bath rails, shower seat or a hoist to help bath or shower; a walking stick, walking frame or crutches; special cutlery or a feeding cup to help with eating and drinking.
    Communicating: if your relative has poor eyesight, do they need help reading their post? If they are deaf, do they need help communicating? Can they hear the doorbell?
    Supervision: is your relative in danger of falling? Do they need someone to watch over them in case they have a seizure or a fall? Are they confused and likely to put themselves in danger if no one is there to monitor them

    There are no restrictive descriptors as in PIP
    ,
    Last edited by Danday; 06-03-2018 at 7:09 PM.
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 8th Mar 18, 12:07 AM
    • 9,037 Posts
    • 5,387 Thanks
    teddysmum
    • #9
    • 8th Mar 18, 12:07 AM
    • #9
    • 8th Mar 18, 12:07 AM
    I don't entirely agree that the AA criteria is stricter than for PIP.

    With AA the guidelines are fairly well expressed

    Washing: does your relative need help getting in and out of the bath or shower, washing their hair or shaving?
    Going to the toilet: does your relative need help going to the toilet during the day or night? Do they suffer from incontinence? Might they need help with changing beds?
    Getting dressed or undressed: does your relative need help with this?
    Mealtimes: does your relative need any help with eating or drinking? Do they have difficulty operating the oven, opening cans or doing other things in the kitchen?
    Medical treatment: do they understand which medication to take when? Can they operate medical devices (such as a hearing aid) or safely manage any illnesses (such as diabetes) by themselves?
    Getting around indoors: does your relative need help navigating stairs, moving from room to room, getting in and out of chairs or bed? Aids and adaptations to list include a hoist, bed- raiser or monkey pole (an under-bed, overhead support pole to help someone lift themselves into a sitting position); a commode or raised toilet seat; bath rails, shower seat or a hoist to help bath or shower; a walking stick, walking frame or crutches; special cutlery or a feeding cup to help with eating and drinking.
    Communicating: if your relative has poor eyesight, do they need help reading their post? If they are deaf, do they need help communicating? Can they hear the doorbell?
    Supervision: is your relative in danger of falling? Do they need someone to watch over them in case they have a seizure or a fall? Are they confused and likely to put themselves in danger if no one is there to monitor them

    There are no restrictive descriptors as in PIP
    ,
    Originally posted by Danday



    PIP and DLA give credit for other needs which appear to be ignored by AA.


    Specifically : For AA a person must need help to eat or drink, so they are also unlikely to be able to prepare a meal (may drop hot dishes, crockery or knives, are unable to open cans, packets etc), but for the others the person could be fully capable of eating, though unable to do the preparation and would have points for this.

    (I make this comment, as despite your list mentioning the problems with kitchen work (eg opening cans, opening oven door ), Age UK and others state that problems with cooking do not count;only the inability to eat or drink unaided.)

    For AA a person should need help getting around the home and may never be able to leave without help, but someone on DLA or PIP can be credited for outdoor help even if they can manage the short distances within the home and would be given extra points if needing that help ,too.


    The point is, I'm not suggesting that that it's harder to decide if someone qualifies for AA (the conditions are clear) , but that a person must have more intense needs (with fewer types of need being considered) to qualify.

    Last edited by teddysmum; 08-03-2018 at 12:09 AM.
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