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  • FIRST POST
    • vlmal
    • By vlmal 25th Feb 18, 1:53 PM
    • 7Posts
    • 4Thanks
    vlmal
    Hotel holding fee not refunded... AFTER 5 MONTHS
    • #1
    • 25th Feb 18, 1:53 PM
    Hotel holding fee not refunded... AFTER 5 MONTHS 25th Feb 18 at 1:53 PM
    Hi All, hope this is the correct thread to be posting this is.

    So last September my wife went for a weekend away in Dublin with a group of her friends, they stayed at the Intercontinental hotel

    The hotel then asked to put a holding fee on someones card, but none of them could afford the amount they wanted to charge: 535.35 (or 603.50 euros).
    Since my wife happened to have my Halifax mastercard on her at the time she rang me and asked if she could use that. The balance on the card was 650 at the time, with the limit at 1,200. So I said sure, since it was a card I didn't really use.

    A month later I happen to be checking my online banking and noticed that the money hadn't been refunded to the card, so I asked my wife to get in contact with the hotel about it.
    After a few phone calls we got the excuse of an administrative error -- apparently somebody had forgot to process then payment.
    A few weeks later I checked my online banking again and it still hadn't been refunded so my wife again spoke to somebody at the hotel and again she was told that it had now been processed and should be back on the card in 7-10 working days.

    Then Christmas came around and I forgot about it for a few weeks. But I checked my statement in January and saw that it had still not gone back on my card! So my wife wrote the hotel a letter. So far we haven't heard anything back from them so I thought I'd post here to see if there is anything else I can do.
    I mean the card is only a spare one, kind of "for emergencies". But last week I got a notification that my credit report had changed as a direct result of my % of lending! This is not good since we are looking to move house this year!

    Thank you for reading, have a good day!
Page 2
    • PeacefulWaters
    • By PeacefulWaters 18th Mar 18, 5:01 PM
    • 8,318 Posts
    • 10,672 Thanks
    PeacefulWaters
    That would depend on the date it happened in September
    Originally posted by d123
    Silly me thinking it's more than 120 days since September.
    • Wizardy18
    • By Wizardy18 18th Mar 18, 6:23 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    Wizardy18
    This is the exact reason why I refuse to pay for hotel bookings or stays with a credit card. The company can make any story up before, during and after and try charging you for damages you never did etc.

    I had one hotel who took a 150 "Damage" fee a few years ago, the manager said he never had seen a room left so messy.
    When asked for photos, he couldn't supply any.
    He refused to refund me.

    After tracing the actual director of the company, he was abroad too, advised him of the issue, and then threatened him with legal action via small claims, within a hour a refund was issued.
    He said sorry and that he would have words with the hotel manager.

    No evidence still was ever supplied, but days later I had my refund.

    Never trust a hotel with your credit card, id rather use a debit card.
    • Bogof_Babe
    • By Bogof_Babe 18th Mar 18, 7:01 PM
    • 10,165 Posts
    • 16,604 Thanks
    Bogof_Babe
    Well we had a problem with a hotel in New York and a debit card charge. We had paid in full through a well known travel agent for a holiday package, flights, cruise, hotel, and two months after we got back the hotel took over 400 from my husband's debit card, and we only found out when he got a balance from a bank ATM. This was two weeks before Christmas and left us short. Our friends who we went with and who had paid on a credit card did not have a similar problem.

    We tried to take it up with the hotel and got nowhere despite several costly phone calls. Then we did what we should have done in the first place and got the travel agent involved. It took them another month to obtain a full refund.

    So no cards are foolproof. But unfortunately the likes of booking.com require you to reserve your room on a card. I don't know what the answer is.
    I haven't bogged off yet, and I ain't no babe


    • chattychappy
    • By chattychappy 19th Mar 18, 9:03 AM
    • 6,966 Posts
    • 3,804 Thanks
    chattychappy
    Never trust a hotel with your credit card, id rather use a debit card.
    Originally posted by Wizardy18
    So you don't trust the hotel with the CC's money, but you trust it with yours?
    • vlmal
    • By vlmal 12th Oct 18, 7:37 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    vlmal
    Hey all, a little update...

    I think the title of this thread should be amended to: Hotel holding fee not refunded... AFTER 13 MONTHS

    I have had lengthy correspondence with Intercontinental since the original post and got to the source of the problem - my wife paid for the room with points (as previously mentioned), but they also charged the card as if the points hadn't been used, so it was a final bill charge rather than a holding fee.

    HOWEVER, I am yet to see any refund and Intercontinental Hotel have been increasingly slower to respond to my emails.
    Fortunately, they deducted the points from my wifes IHG account on departure, as well as deducted the full bill from my credit card, which is evidence of a double payment.
    They have offered me and my wife a free stay at any one of their hotels, but I have refused for obvious reasons. I just want the money back to be honest. The interest on the card recently changed and my credit card utilization is about 25% higher because of this, contributing to a poor credit score.

    So since Intercontinental are apparently refusing the be fair and reasonable, what are my legal options from this point on wards?

    Thanks.

    P.S. I'm glad this thread wasn't closed as it is still unresolved!
    • Terry Towelling
    • By Terry Towelling 12th Oct 18, 8:18 PM
    • 755 Posts
    • 590 Thanks
    Terry Towelling
    I suspect most contributors to the forum had worked out exactly what the issue was months back, which is why you were advised to get the transaction disputed and get it charged back as 'paid by other means' (or the like).

    You are the cardholder and therefore the person responsible for the debts that you allow to be applied to it - not your wife. You need to take a much more active attitude and approach to the way you handle your cards - sorry.

    All that said, IHG seems to be agreeing that they have made a mess-up here and they are just trying to fend you off rather than fork out. Press a bit harder if you really want your money back. If it is legal advice you are after, you will have to consult a legal professional - although some on the forum may be able to make suggestions as to legal processes that may be open to you.

    Have you tried complaining to IHG head office rather than the hotel itself?
    • eco_warrior
    • By eco_warrior 12th Oct 18, 8:30 PM
    • 194 Posts
    • 66 Thanks
    eco_warrior
    This was way out of time for a chargeback when the OP made the first post. 120 days from 27th September was the last chance.
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 12th Oct 18, 9:14 PM
    • 7,265 Posts
    • 7,220 Thanks
    eddddy
    I guess the reason you didn't want to contact the card company was because your wife used your card (and presumably knew your PIN) - and so you probably would have had to admit that you broke the card company's t&cs, and maybe had your account closed.

    Looking at alternative options - Ireland seems to have a Small Claims Procedure, but...

    Both the claimant and the respondent must be living or based within the State. If either party lives or is based in another EU member state, the European Small Claims Procedure should be used.

    Link: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courts_system/small_claims_court.html
    So I guess your wife could try the European Small Claims procedure: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courts_system/european_small_claims_procedure.html
    • T-G-C
    • By T-G-C 13th Oct 18, 7:57 PM
    • 477 Posts
    • 227 Thanks
    T-G-C
    I guess the reason you didn't want to contact the card company was because your wife used your card (and presumably knew your PIN) - and so you probably would have had to admit that you broke the card company's t&cs, and maybe had your account closed.

    Looking at alternative options - Ireland seems to have a Small Claims Procedure, but...



    So I guess your wife could try the European Small Claims procedure: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courts_system/european_small_claims_procedure.html
    Originally posted by eddddy
    He could still have filed it and confirmed it was an authorized transaction, they are hardly going to ask the hotel for CCTV footage.
    Advice provided from this account does not consist of any professional knowledge. For professional debt advice, please contact either National Debtline or StepChange. Advice may consist of personal experience, opinion and/or informational sources.
    • T-G-C
    • By T-G-C 13th Oct 18, 8:01 PM
    • 477 Posts
    • 227 Thanks
    T-G-C
    The hotel has no right to charge someone's card a considerable amount of funds, hold it for 13+ months and still be acting within the law.

    Provided the hotel did not incur expenses upon departure, the full amount should be refunded. However, should and will are two different words.

    I would start to threaten them with legal action, as it is essentially moral theft. They have taken the funds for something on the understanding it was essentially a refundable deposit, that something ended 13 months ago and have not returned it to you. I cannot describe it any other way.
    Advice provided from this account does not consist of any professional knowledge. For professional debt advice, please contact either National Debtline or StepChange. Advice may consist of personal experience, opinion and/or informational sources.
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 13th Oct 18, 8:22 PM
    • 6,217 Posts
    • 3,792 Thanks
    Nasqueron
    The interest on the card recently changed and my credit card utilization is about 25% higher because of this, contributing to a poor credit score.
    Originally posted by vlmal

    To reiterate a point made maybe a billion times on this forum


    YOU DO NOT HAVE A CREDIT SCORE


    The "score" given on Experian, Equifax and Call Credit is a made up number, NOBODY except you sees it, you will NEVER have an application for credit refused based on this score, whether it goes up or down or irrelevant.
    • Mr Underwriter
    • By Mr Underwriter 13th Oct 18, 9:59 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Mr Underwriter
    To reiterate a point made maybe a billion times on this forum


    YOU DO NOT HAVE A CREDIT SCORE


    The "score" given on Experian, Equifax and Call Credit is a made up number, NOBODY except you sees it, you will NEVER have an application for credit refused based on this score, whether it goes up or down or irrelevant.
    Originally posted by Nasqueron
    The score in itself isn't used or seen by anyone other than the user. BUT, generally speaking for the masses it is INDICATIVE of how your file is viewed by the financial institutes, along with other variables, salary etc. and is therefore very RELEVANT
    • Dragonfly1
    • By Dragonfly1 14th Oct 18, 1:25 AM
    • 82 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    Dragonfly1
    Also too late for the OP - I stay at IHG Hotels more often that I stay at home..... But Intercontintental would never put a holding charge of 500 euros on your card when you pay with IHG points. They would instead ask you what holding charge you would like and usually suggest 50-100 euros with further daily deductions depending on the previous night's expenses.

    Obviously you had paid with IHG points & therefore - as others had suggested back in February - alarm bells would be immediately ringing and this should have been sorted in February.

    Presumably you are Spire or Platinum Elite or Ambassador? You should phone the specific IHG hotline to your membership tier. Then - on the same day - follow this up with IHG via email stating the outcome of your conversation and your intention to proceed to court action if this has not been resolved within X weeks.

    There's usually a room limit of 2 adults and you say she stayed "with a group of friends". Do you really have enough IHG points to pay for 2 or 3 rooms for a weekend as you sound quite IHG naive (no offence). Did the other rooms pay the cash rate? Any cash rate room would indeed have a holding deposit and it sounds like the hotel treated any and all rooms as cash in error (Did you friends ever get billed for their stay?). If the hotel believe you are family, they may merge all expenses i.e. the deposit etc into one room to present you ('the family') one bill upon checkout - hence the one holding deposit despite multiple rooms. I'd be fascinated to know if the other room ever got a bill. Otherwise why would Intercontinental be so reluctant to refund you to be honest.

    EDIT: This was never a purely refundable deposit for your wife's room. It would have been 50 euros, 100 euros - hell even 500 euros as a refundable deposit. They took a deposit of 503 euros so that the other room had been 'paid' for at check-in... in case the other room didn't pay on check-out. Leading me back to my original question - did they pay on check-out? In short your wife should have let her friends pay the deposit on their room.
    Last edited by Dragonfly1; 14-10-2018 at 1:31 AM.
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 14th Oct 18, 10:19 AM
    • 6,217 Posts
    • 3,792 Thanks
    Nasqueron
    The score in itself isn't used or seen by anyone other than the user. BUT, generally speaking for the masses it is INDICATIVE of how your file is viewed by the financial institutes, along with other variables, salary etc. and is therefore very RELEVANT
    Originally posted by Mr Underwriter

    No it isn't. In any way


    Bankrupts can get a 999 rating on Experian. Someone with a mid range score can get the top cards.



    If the scoring is so important, why don't you borrow from Experian if they rate you well, you won't have any issues will you?
    • chattychappy
    • By chattychappy 14th Oct 18, 10:54 AM
    • 6,966 Posts
    • 3,804 Thanks
    chattychappy
    No it isn't. In any way


    Bankrupts can get a 999 rating on Experian. Someone with a mid range score can get the top cards.



    If the scoring is so important, why don't you borrow from Experian if they rate you well, you won't have any issues will you?
    Originally posted by Nasqueron
    I disagree. It has become a mantra here that credit scores are irrelevant, only seen by you etc., and are therefore worthless.

    It is true they are created "on the fly" by Experian (or whoever) when consumers want to know their score. But they are based on a subset of data on which a lender would make a decision. Lenders would also take into consideration what you write on a form, any previous history etc. Therefore there is a correlation between your credit score and how a lender would see you.

    My score is usually 999 on Experian (via the Barclaycard service). When a missed payment was logged, the score dropped (to around 850, I think) and then quickly recovered. This all makes sense. A lender is unlikely to see a missed payment positively. They may view it very seriously, or consider it a minor problem.

    In my own business we credit check people before signing contracts. Experian give us a score and a recommendation, as well as basic data - eg how long at an address etc. I combine this with what else we know about the person before making a decision. When I checked myself out of curiosity, it gave me the same score as I got via Barclaycard.

    In summary, I agree with Mr Underwriter. The score you get from Experian is a useful indication, but I wouldn't rate it any higher than that.
    Last edited by chattychappy; 14-10-2018 at 10:56 AM.
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 14th Oct 18, 11:06 AM
    • 7,265 Posts
    • 7,220 Thanks
    eddddy
    I guess the reason you didn't want to contact the card company was because your wife used your card (and presumably knew your PIN) - and so you probably would have had to admit that you broke the card company's t&cs, and maybe had your account closed.
    Originally posted by eddddy
    He could still have filed it and confirmed it was an authorized transaction, they are hardly going to ask the hotel for CCTV footage.
    Originally posted by T-G-C
    CCTV footage is a bit of a 'red-herring'.

    Halifax explain their dispute resolution process here:

    How to raise a payment dispute with us

    If you've been unsuccessful in your attempts to resolve a payment dispute on your account, we can help you raise a claim.

    We’ll need the following information:
    • The name of the company
    • Details of the payment or description of the item/service and delivery date
    • We may also ask you for a written summary of your dispute. This includes details of how you've attempted to resolve the dispute and details of any responses you've received.

    Link: https://www.halifax.co.uk/creditcards/help-guidance/payment-disputes/
    Halifax is then likely then contact the hotel to get their side of the story.

    Given...
    • A written summary of the dispute from the OP
    • Copies of communications to/from the hotel
    • The hotel's reply to Halifax

    I think it's 99.99% certain that Halifax would find out that the OP's wife was using his credit card - and he had presumably disclosed his PIN to her - and therefore he had breached the terms of the agreement with Halifax.
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 14th Oct 18, 6:09 PM
    • 6,217 Posts
    • 3,792 Thanks
    Nasqueron
    I disagree. It has become a mantra here that credit scores are irrelevant, only seen by you etc., and are therefore worthless.

    It is true they are created "on the fly" by Experian (or whoever) when consumers want to know their score. But they are based on a subset of data on which a lender would make a decision. Lenders would also take into consideration what you write on a form, any previous history etc. Therefore there is a correlation between your credit score and how a lender would see you.

    My score is usually 999 on Experian (via the Barclaycard service). When a missed payment was logged, the score dropped (to around 850, I think) and then quickly recovered. This all makes sense. A lender is unlikely to see a missed payment positively. They may view it very seriously, or consider it a minor problem.

    In my own business we credit check people before signing contracts. Experian give us a score and a recommendation, as well as basic data - eg how long at an address etc. I combine this with what else we know about the person before making a decision. When I checked myself out of curiosity, it gave me the same score as I got via Barclaycard.

    In summary, I agree with Mr Underwriter. The score you get from Experian is a useful indication, but I wouldn't rate it any higher than that.
    Originally posted by chattychappy

    And again, for the umpteenth time, a person with an active bankruptcy in their record can have a score of 999 (there are examples on this board). They can and will get rejected for credit from mainstream lenders yet this "useful indication" suggests they are perfect.


    I had the same exact score from ClearScore for best part of 3 years despite the fact the only debt I had was a PCP car deal (paid every month, on 0%, never missed anything) and a BT card deal (again paid a fixed amount every month always over minimum). A score reflecting my real credit worthiness would have gone up as debt went down, it didn't move. I joined the MSE club while I still had the PCP / BT deal and Experian were saying I was 999 yet Clearscore and Noddle had me around 2/3 of their maximum score. Only the MSE club knows my salary details. I have 2 other credit cards (paid in full every month), a contract SIM phone deal, on the electoral roll at the same address for about 13 years. I have no CCJ, no late payments, no CIFAS etc



    Noddle score me currently 642/710 with a rating of 5,



    MSE say I am 999 but my credit card and loan affordability is very weak even though my only debt is a BT card which is paid off monthly. MSE say I only have an 80% chance of getting a bad credit card but 90% of getting a good one


    Clearscore say I am 538/700



    How can it be a useful indication when the 3 big agencies can't even get ratings similar? 100% on Experian, 90% on Noddle, 77% on ClearScore...


    Simply put, if you think the number gives you an indication of anything then you don't understand the scoring system
    • Potbellypig
    • By Potbellypig 14th Oct 18, 7:22 PM
    • 317 Posts
    • 184 Thanks
    Potbellypig
    YOU DO NOT HAVE A CREDIT SCORE
    Originally posted by Nasqueron
    Noddle score me currently 642/710 with a rating of 5,



    MSE say I am 999 but my credit card and loan affordability is very weak even though my only debt is a BT card which is paid off monthly. MSE say I only have an 80% chance of getting a bad credit card but 90% of getting a good one


    Clearscore say I am 538/700
    Originally posted by Nasqueron

    So you do have a credit score then.
    • Terry Towelling
    • By Terry Towelling 14th Oct 18, 8:30 PM
    • 755 Posts
    • 590 Thanks
    Terry Towelling
    OK, so we do have credit scores and the companies that provide them presumably use facets of our credit histories to create that score.

    The question is, what facets do they use to make their determination and just how relevant is the result they come up with?

    My guess is that they are teaming up with certain lenders who will give an indication of their lending criteria so the score providers can construct a picture of possible lending suitability with the sole intention of inducing us into applying for credit products with their partner lenders.

    How the partner lenders then assess the resulting applicants is something entirely different, but they've had a load of marketing done for them and hopefully screened out most of the dross in the process.

    So, yes, we do have a score (or even lots of them) but whether they actually mean anything is another matter.
    • 1974Stephen
    • By 1974Stephen 14th Oct 18, 8:54 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 50 Thanks
    1974Stephen
    Someone scores 999 on Experian. OH PULEEEZZZEEE
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