Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Gunner84
    • By Gunner84 23rd Feb 18, 12:54 PM
    • 46Posts
    • 19Thanks
    Gunner84
    UKPC - SCS Claim form recieved
    • #1
    • 23rd Feb 18, 12:54 PM
    UKPC - SCS Claim form recieved 23rd Feb 18 at 12:54 PM
    I live in a flat in a gated development parking controlled by UKPC. The flat comes with two parking passes, one guest pass and one for my own car. Over the past year my partner suddenly began recieving tickets for her car in the visitor bay. We observed advice on these forums which we now sadly know was out of date, to ignore them. Given the reputation is easy to research, this seemed reasonable at the time given that we actually have a pass, and they seem to operate purely for commission rather than protecting the parking interests of residents.

    Flash forward several months - We now have a court claim letter against us. So here are the finer details about what supposedly went wrong here.

    They claim the guest pass is invalid. Some months ago i had my own guest pass for my numbered bay replaced. I did not receive this from the property management, or via any chain from UKPC. I got it from a tenant who says he often acts as a liason for the property management. Since guest passes were not numbered, I did not question the validity of the guest pass. We also did not receive any tickets around this time, so I had no reason to question it. The existing parking permit is undated, there is no such thing as an expiry date. When i recently spoke to the property management they informed me that they had posted a letter (did not recieve this) updating us on the new passes. When i mentioned I hadn't received this they referred me to a notice board, saying they did not have my landlords email address.

    Parking signs are several meters away from the bays which are marked "visitors bay". They state requirement for a valid pass, but do not detail validity dates on the pass themselves. I have lived here for 5 years. Passes were not updated annually, or to any pattern that is noticeable.

    My tenancy agreement was initially 12 months, but has been rolling ever since. I am not sure how relevant this is but worth mentioning.

    So just to clarify, my partner is the keeper of the ticketed vehicle, parking in the visitor bay with a permit that just suddenly became invalid. It is my permit, and the only one i had ever received until recently. Where does she/we stand here?

    The claim is for 4 figures. Since its several tickets ignored as we felt they were in error due to it being valid pass at our own home. We did inform the parking officers who stopped ticketing when we did. When i actually phoned UKPC to discuss it, suddenly they ticketed again. Almost appeared malicious.

    Any help is most appreciated.
    Last edited by Gunner84; 23-02-2018 at 1:01 PM.
Page 1
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 23rd Feb 18, 1:10 PM
    • 9,209 Posts
    • 8,979 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #2
    • 23rd Feb 18, 1:10 PM
    • #2
    • 23rd Feb 18, 1:10 PM
    The PPCs have, imo, bitten off more than they can chew in targeting residents, some of whom are a lot smarter that your average Lidl shopper. They are losing more and more cases in court as judges become familiar with the scam. Read these

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/residential-parking.html

    http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/permit-car-parks/

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/resident-counterclaims-against-ukpc-for.html

    https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKPC-liable-for-trespass-**SUCCESS**


    And google UKPC parking Prankster for a lot more.
    You have a periodic tenancy which gives you all the rights of an AST.

    You appear to be a player so encourage them to take you to court and, once you have won your case, take them to the cleaners, please read this

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences.

    Parking Eye, Smart and a smaller company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (who take hundreds of these cases to court, and nearly always lose), who have also been reported to the regulatory authority.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind most of these companies may well be put out of business by Christmas.

    Have you seen this, and asked you landlord to give the MA a kicking?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35253759
    Last edited by The Deep; 23-02-2018 at 1:27 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 23rd Feb 18, 1:11 PM
    • 2,901 Posts
    • 4,399 Thanks
    fisherjim
    • #3
    • 23rd Feb 18, 1:11 PM
    • #3
    • 23rd Feb 18, 1:11 PM
    As above but also:
    Start by reading the newbies thread on here.
    Stop phoning UKPC, who are scammers and have been caught flasifying evidence in the past.
    Your tenancy agreement is very relevent.
    The whole private parking industry is a scam, and paliament is at last starting to realise it.
    With multiple tickets the greedy scumbags are now likely to try a punt at you in court, you need to get up to speed with this.
    Shame you ignored them in the first place.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 23rd Feb 18, 1:13 PM
    • 17,621 Posts
    • 27,847 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #4
    • 23rd Feb 18, 1:13 PM
    • #4
    • 23rd Feb 18, 1:13 PM
    We now have a court claim letter against us.
    Do you mean an official County Court Claim via the Northampton CCBC? The NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2 walks you right through the court process, including advice on what to do and when to do it. If it is a pucker Claim, you must deal with it; it won't go away, and could turn out nasty if you continue to ignore things.

    When i actually phoned UKPC to discuss it, suddenly they ticketed again.
    How recent is this latest ticket?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Gunner84
    • By Gunner84 23rd Feb 18, 1:34 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Gunner84
    • #5
    • 23rd Feb 18, 1:34 PM
    • #5
    • 23rd Feb 18, 1:34 PM
    Do you mean an official County Court Claim via the Northampton CCBC? The NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2 walks you right through the court process, including advice on what to do and when to do it. If it is a pucker Claim, you must deal with it; it won't go away, and could turn out nasty if you continue to ignore things.


    How recent is this latest ticket?
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Yes it is addressed from the CCBC Northampton. The latest tickets came in the past few weeks. They have also ticketed my own car which has now recieved a letter before claim. They did this during the period where the garage door was broken so i was forced to park outside of my indoor parking space. I still had a UKPC permit on display even showing my flat number, which makes this whole situation seem even more ridiculous. Frankly the fact that It is a tenants guest pass on my girlfriends car, and they have ticketed the tenant myself did make me hopeful some common sense could prevail here. I don't know if that is the route i should prepare to go in terms of defence here, or something more typial like poor signage.

    Frankly the issue is so bad that i will likely give my landlord notice soon. It feels like any minor excuse and i will be in court, and its not a peaceful way to live.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 23rd Feb 18, 1:49 PM
    • 17,621 Posts
    • 27,847 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #6
    • 23rd Feb 18, 1:49 PM
    • #6
    • 23rd Feb 18, 1:49 PM
    Those tickets that can be appealed to UKPC and then to POPLA should appealed in line with the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1. If you can get favourable POPLA decisions on those, it will be useful evidence for any court case on the others.

    Any windscreen ticket that has been issued in the past 50 days or so should be potentially appealable.

    How many fall into that category, and have you had a subsequent letter - Notice to Keeper (NtK) - from UKPC?

    Please list those in the '50 day category' with date of issue and whether a NtK has been served.

    You are likely to need to be battling on a number of fronts, but we need the information from you so we can advise how you chop this up into manageable segments.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Gunner84
    • By Gunner84 23rd Feb 18, 2:54 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Gunner84
    • #7
    • 23rd Feb 18, 2:54 PM
    • #7
    • 23rd Feb 18, 2:54 PM
    I will provide the above as soon as i get home from work. Is this likely to result in a CCJ on my partners credit eligibility? That is a big concern for her.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 23rd Feb 18, 3:20 PM
    • 2,516 Posts
    • 3,062 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #8
    • 23rd Feb 18, 3:20 PM
    • #8
    • 23rd Feb 18, 3:20 PM
    What do you think the "J" stands for?

    That would be judgement

    You havent even had a court hearing yet. Never mind a judgement. Also, 5 minutes of research on this forum - seriously, GET OUT your thread - tells you paying within 1 months removes the CCJ. So, only byu YOUR INACTION will a CCJ actually impact you.
    • Gunner84
    • By Gunner84 23rd Feb 18, 5:20 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Gunner84
    • #9
    • 23rd Feb 18, 5:20 PM
    • #9
    • 23rd Feb 18, 5:20 PM
    I did read that, but to be honest I have read so much, looked through so many different cases that it's almost overwhelming doing all this at work. I knew really, so was probably looking more for a bit of confirmation than anything. We are very much prepping to fight this meticulously.
    • Gunner84
    • By Gunner84 1st Mar 18, 2:22 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Gunner84
    Those tickets that can be appealed to UKPC and then to POPLA should appealed in line with the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1. If you can get favourable POPLA decisions on those, it will be useful evidence for any court case on the others.

    Any windscreen ticket that has been issued in the past 50 days or so should be potentially appealable.

    How many fall into that category, and have you had a subsequent letter - Notice to Keeper (NtK) - from UKPC?

    Please list those in the '50 day category' with date of issue and whether a NtK has been served.

    You are likely to need to be battling on a number of fronts, but we need the information from you so we can advise how you chop this up into manageable segments.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas

    Quick update.

    So there is the initial claim which my partner with the guest pass has now acknowledged. It stands at 4 figures with court courts added. We have acknowledged for the 28 days to defend.

    Additionally the two new malicious NTK's within 50 days, we are going to appeal them individually. Would this be the correct thing to do?

    Now, there is a the issue of charges on my own car for my own supposedly suddenly invalid permit (my flat number was always on it). I have written a letter to UKPC asking for these to kindly be rescinded, given that I, the keeper, am a tenant of the building, am very easy to contact regarding replacement permits, and had received no information regarding the validity of my permit. I told them that i would like to take reasonable steps to resolve this matter, since I can prove my occupancy, and clearly do not act in contravention of their remit to protect the residents peaceful enjoyment, since I am one. Should this go any further I am determined to fight on all fronts, and as a result have already requested land registry documents. Since both of the passes are mine, my main doubt is as to in what way, if any i should be referencing these cases, as they clearly correspond.

    The bottom line here is I am actually paying for both of these parking permits within my rent. How best to i bring this to an MCOL defence? I would not be averse to a counter claim here either, once I can better clarify my case, because after all, surely i am paying big money for rent here, and these spaces were included within it.

    I would be grateful for any assistance. I am not letting this go.
    • Gunner84
    • By Gunner84 2nd Mar 18, 11:54 AM
    • 46 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Gunner84
    UPDATE:

    I now have my original tenancy agreement. The agreement was for 12 months. Since then I have continued to reside there paying rent to my landlord. My name is on the tenancy agreement. What happens in this case? Does it count for something still?

    Could my landlords lease agreement be of use here? For example it will detail his entitlement to 2 passes for his tenants. Could I still argue primacy based on his lease, and me being the recipient of his passes which are used for myself and my partner.

    Failing this, should i look to go a different route with the defence. Signage is of course awful as you'd expect.
    • Gunner84
    • By Gunner84 5th Mar 18, 10:59 AM
    • 46 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Gunner84
    I am currently building my defence in accordance with all instructions in the newbies thread, and have noticed something in the particulars of claim that I was curious about as to how it affects the case against my partners vehicle.

    The development is gated access. The particulars of claim reference a completely different postcode and address to the position on which my partners vehicle was parked. This other road is part of the same development, but they are seperated by a large area of grass. In fact, it is impossible to drive the car once within the gate to the street address that they have issued the parking charge notice for. Is this relevant? Something that can be used in a defence?

    It quite literally is not the correct address. It is however within the area that they cover. What difference does this make?
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 5th Mar 18, 12:11 PM
    • 2,516 Posts
    • 3,062 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Yes, you can state that the location specified is NOT a location the vehicle has ever been parked (if true!) and as such they cannot have a cause of action.
    • Gunner84
    • By Gunner84 5th Mar 18, 12:19 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Gunner84
    Thanks, should I start the MCOL defence with that immediately?

    My next action was intended to be an SAR request to UKPC for all data held on the keepers vehicle. The Poor quality photos show my partners car clearly parked at a completely different location. Provable with any map and a few supporting photographs. On top of this she is displaying her permit, no signage visible in their own images, apart from one almost 8ft high that is probably about 20 meters away.

    Thanks once again for the help. I have 18 days left to defend. Have also requested land ownership documents and the contract with UKPC and the Landowner from property management. I am working to make this as transparent as possible. Please let me know if there is anything I am overlooking.

    Thanks again. I may even look in to a counter claim when I have time to find out how viable that would be. This is costing a phenomenal amount of working hours, and there is also a portion of rent paid for these inclusive passes.
    • eltacano
    • By eltacano 5th Mar 18, 12:32 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    eltacano
    I don't think you say whether your partner is a resident or not.
    Presumably she is not, because if she were a resident clearly she would have no right to park in a visitor's space even if her vehicle displayed a valid guest permit.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 5th Mar 18, 12:52 PM
    • 2,516 Posts
    • 3,062 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    You must write your defence now. Assuming you have acknowledged you only have 33 days from the date of issue for the court to RECEIVE your defence.

    Do NOT use MCOL to write the defence. Do it in word / libreoffice / etc. THEN you can email then a printed, signed, scanned to PDF copy of the defence.

    Counterclaim - this CANNOT be your costs in defending the claim. You will know that from reaidng it. A counterclaim would be on grounds of harassment, breach of lease (tortious interference), trespass etc.
    • Gunner84
    • By Gunner84 5th Mar 18, 4:24 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Gunner84
    I am now in the process of writing my defence. I am still a bit lost regardless as it is such an overwhelming amount to brush up on at once.

    What are my strongest points for defence here? Incorrect parking location? Lack of communication regarding replacement of guest passes?

    I am sure signage must be a pretty weak argument at this point. Signs upon gate entry say "Permit Holders Only" upon inspection, but as you enter inside they are not clearly visible from the guest bay. Lots of small writing. Only a sign saying "visitor parking" and nothing else.

    My biggest issue here is I am not sure which points to base it on. I really feel they are aggressively ticketing and seeing us as a potential cash cow here, so I do not want to construct a defence that looks like clutching at straws.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Mar 18, 11:51 PM
    • 57,498 Posts
    • 71,087 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    It won't be clutching at straws.

    What's wrong with Johnersh's example residential car park defence in #2 of the NEWBIES thread?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Gunner84
    • By Gunner84 6th Mar 18, 11:55 AM
    • 46 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Gunner84
    I am using that example as a template now. I have had my partner put in an SAR request for all of the data they carry. The photos are awful, but we are currently unable to access them since they passed them over to "debt collection". My own photos show the in-site signage positions not being close the position ticketed.

    Should we send a part 18 request? I have the title name of the deed holder, but confusingly on the deed it is registered under the address they have on the ticket (a neighbouring address) but the turning area on which we park is not named that way. Different street sign, and one that matches our home address. I was wondering if with the part 18 we should be looking to determine any further details that would assist us? Or would building on this template theoretically cover that?

    I have no doubt that they will try to give us as little information as possible prior to court hearings, so I want to make sure I am doing everithing possible from this stage on.

    (I'll post the defence up here later today)
    • Gunner84
    • By Gunner84 6th Mar 18, 2:29 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Gunner84
    I have checked my tenancy agreement thoroughly. I am not sure if I can argue primacy in terms of the guest passes in the visitors car park. So after my initial agreement expired it is my understanding I am now considered to have periodic tenancy, and the initial tenancy agreement terms still legally apply.

    The agreement makes no mention of my parking spaces, despite my own bay parking (numbered correspondent to my flat) and one guest pass being included. It also makes no mention of any parking enforcement in place. How should I be looking to approach these factors in my defence.

    Really getting short of time now, and don't want to get this wrong. So much research and so little time.

    Thank you in advance.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

176Posts Today

1,850Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • It's the start of mini MSE's half term. In order to be the best daddy possible, Im stopping work and going off line? https://t.co/kwjvtd75YU

  • RT @shellsince1982: @MartinSLewis thanx to your email I have just saved myself £222 by taking a SIM only deal for £7.50 a month and keeping?

  • Today's Friday twitter poll: An important question, building on yesterday's important discussions: Which is the best bit of the pizza...

  • Follow Martin