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  • FIRST POST
    • Elinore
    • By Elinore 21st Feb 18, 2:00 PM
    • 151Posts
    • 469Thanks
    Elinore
    Returning a faulty new car - on finance
    • #1
    • 21st Feb 18, 2:00 PM
    Returning a faulty new car - on finance 21st Feb 18 at 2:00 PM
    I am beginning to worry my new car is going all Christine and is trying to kill me.

    She was was bought from brand new in November and currently has been into the dealerships Garage once per month since I got her. She is stalling on stop start, She is stalling on idling, she is regularly hunting for revs (the rev counter bounces up and down like a loon and she sounds like I am pumping the accelerator) and as of yesterday she has escalated to cutting out at low speed (pulling off).

    Her auto air con will not work as she starts to hunt for revs if I turn it on. The sat nav screen has been frozen for three weeks, they have fixed it a number of times and it freezes again the day after. The sound quality for the hands free is terrible in fact it is not even usable it is so bad. The reverse sensor activates but the camera only brings up a green screen. The system has a real issue with connecting to my phone and I have just given up trying.

    Yesterday I pulled off at a roundabout and she just tanked. A poor articulated lorry driver had a brown trouser moment and had to make a swift stop (I had plenty of room - it was not a rushed manoeuvre demonstrated by the fact the lorry had time to stop on a very fast roundabout - and it would have been fine if she had not just died)

    I rang them yesterday to advise of this worrying upswing in issues and the make/model specialist just kept repeating that the trip computer showed no errors! I do not give a flying fiddle what the trip computer says! I have video of the car, stationary in a car park, hunting for revs so badly she sounds like she is gasping for breath!

    Things they have tried:
    Messing with the timing
    Changed the spark plugs
    Changed an O2 sensor

    Currently awaiting a part for the transmission - the engineer admitted that he only is trying this as they had a similar issue on a car and changing this part helped but inferred he did not quite know why.

    I am genuinely beginning to think she is a total lemon and they do not have a clue what is causing the issue but she is outside of the millage for the no quibble return guarantee.

    Being that she is on finance, I have had use of her since Nov , by driving her off the forecourt and putting millage on her I have deprecated her value, do I have any right of return under the sales of goods act? Anyone got any experience on how this would likely play out.
    Last edited by Elinore; 25-07-2018 at 6:41 PM.
Page 1
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 21st Feb 18, 2:34 PM
    • 17,296 Posts
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    motorguy
    • #2
    • 21st Feb 18, 2:34 PM
    • #2
    • 21st Feb 18, 2:34 PM
    Whilst it cant be done when driving, any scope to record any of these effects on your camera and then play them back to the dealer?

    Have you escalated to the manufacturers UK customer service team?

    They'll be looking for error codes so they can diagnose what the problem is however just because there are no codes doesnt mean there isnt a fault (as your car proves)
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • bigisi
    • By bigisi 21st Feb 18, 2:36 PM
    • 340 Posts
    • 608 Thanks
    bigisi
    • #3
    • 21st Feb 18, 2:36 PM
    • #3
    • 21st Feb 18, 2:36 PM
    Sales of goods act hasn't been around for over two years now. It's the Consumer Rights Act now.

    Sounds like you've given them plenty of chance to fix the issues so a rejection may be possible. You'd need to put it out of use though and send a rejection letter outlining your complaint and see where they go from there.

    What is this mystery car?
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 21st Feb 18, 3:02 PM
    • 11,611 Posts
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    neilmcl
    • #4
    • 21st Feb 18, 3:02 PM
    • #4
    • 21st Feb 18, 3:02 PM
    As above, under the new legislation the seller is allowed a single chance only to repair, if this fails then you will be entitled to reject the car outright. You need to write a formal letter of rejection as well as speaking to the finance co., it is their car after all.

    Can we ask what car it is?
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 21st Feb 18, 3:23 PM
    • 3,207 Posts
    • 2,125 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    • #5
    • 21st Feb 18, 3:23 PM
    • #5
    • 21st Feb 18, 3:23 PM
    You need to write a formal letter of rejection as well as speaking to the finance co., it is their car after all.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    Once you have rejected the car (by formal letter of rejection), you must stop using it.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 21st Feb 18, 3:31 PM
    • 17,296 Posts
    • 10,440 Thanks
    motorguy
    • #6
    • 21st Feb 18, 3:31 PM
    • #6
    • 21st Feb 18, 3:31 PM
    I would be escalating to the finance company right now. They can often put pressure on the dealer / manufacturer to resolve it.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • George Michael
    • By George Michael 21st Feb 18, 3:39 PM
    • 3,162 Posts
    • 4,242 Thanks
    George Michael
    • #7
    • 21st Feb 18, 3:39 PM
    • #7
    • 21st Feb 18, 3:39 PM
    One thing to bear in mind that if you do manage to reject it, the dealer or finance company isn't legally required to give you a full refund.
    They can make a deduction from the original price paid to cover the few months use you have had from the vehicle.

    I've no idea if they will actually do this or if they do, how much of a deduction would be reasonable.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 21st Feb 18, 3:53 PM
    • 11,611 Posts
    • 8,398 Thanks
    neilmcl
    • #8
    • 21st Feb 18, 3:53 PM
    • #8
    • 21st Feb 18, 3:53 PM
    One thing to bear in mind that if you do manage to reject it, the dealer or finance company isn't legally required to give you a full refund.
    They can make a deduction from the original price paid to cover the few months use you have had from the vehicle.

    I've no idea if they will actually do this or if they do, how much of a deduction would be reasonable.
    Originally posted by George Michael
    Kind of depends when the faults were first brought to the attention of the dealer. If the faults arose within the first 30 days and it's still taken this long without resolution one could argue that the OP is still has the power under the short-term right to reject for a full refund.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 21st Feb 18, 4:01 PM
    • 18,366 Posts
    • 16,592 Thanks
    AdrianC
    • #9
    • 21st Feb 18, 4:01 PM
    • #9
    • 21st Feb 18, 4:01 PM
    You're outside the absolute 30 day rejection period.

    I'd be throwing them the keys, insisting on a loan car, and telling the service manager to use it himself and you don't want it back until it flippin' works, whatever the diagnostics say.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 21st Feb 18, 8:15 PM
    • 11,611 Posts
    • 8,398 Thanks
    neilmcl
    You're outside the absolute 30 day rejection period.

    I'd be throwing them the keys, insisting on a loan car, and telling the service manager to use it himself and you don't want it back until it flippin' works, whatever the diagnostics say.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    Not necessarily. If the fault was first raised within 30 days then effectively this period would've been on pause whilst a suitable remedy was sought.
    • iolanthe07
    • By iolanthe07 22nd Feb 18, 11:00 AM
    • 5,064 Posts
    • 4,750 Thanks
    iolanthe07
    It sounds an absolute nightmare. Could you tell us the make and model, please?
    I used to think that good grammar is important, but now I know that good wine is importanter.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 22nd Feb 18, 11:44 AM
    • 4,740 Posts
    • 4,730 Thanks
    DoaM
    Not necessarily. If the fault was first raised within 30 days then effectively this period would've been on pause whilst a suitable remedy was sought.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    ^^^ is the correct answer.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
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    • david a
    • By david a 22nd Feb 18, 11:05 PM
    • 153 Posts
    • 87 Thanks
    david a
    Customer complains about a fault that the dealer cannot find any evidence of.

    That is going to be a straight forward refund then.
    • Elinore
    • By Elinore 6th Jul 18, 1:46 PM
    • 151 Posts
    • 469 Thanks
    Elinore
    Update
    Hi All,

    Thank you for your replies.

    The first fault showed after two months.

    I formally complained to the dealer after the last repair did not work and they insisted at another try to resolve the issue. The car was remapped and some engine tweaks made.

    This resulted in the engine not wildly over revving but now it has a terrible lag when accelerating/decelerating and nasty bunny hopping going on when it does either.

    The stalling issue hasn't resolved, stop start does not work and generally the other problems remained.

    In light of this five weeks ago I wrote to the finance company to make them aware that the vehicle has an on-going and unrepaired fault.


    I had a holding letter today to say that they are still investigating however there was some wording in the acknowledgment that was rather worrying it says .....we appreciate that you have made a request to reject the vehicle......I have done no such thing! I have not mentioned rejecting the vehicle only that there is an ongoing and unresolved issue that as the *owners* they might wish to review with the garage.

    Is this fairly standard and the established outcome is a rejection? therefore they have jumped to this conclusion?

    If this is the case are they just going to take the car back?

    Some figures 67 Plate, bought new, I have paid 3K deposit and an additional 1.5K part exchange - the cars purchase price was 14500 and now via auto trader and similar its worth 9000/9500.I have done 10K miles (in line with yearly mileage agreement) I have three sets of finance with the finance company over the years, with no issues - paid in full and had the car for many years after buying. In line with this I was expecting to keep this car from new till it died of old age.

    If they take the car back and call it even - I have basically paid out 6K to hire a (duff) brand new car for a year?

    Does anyone know if the rejection is it open to negotiation? - as I do want the same car/made/model/mileage/age but just a different one as this one appears to be a lemon? Is that something that can be arranged? Just a straight swap?

    Does anyone know what the process is?



    Last edited by Elinore; 06-07-2018 at 1:52 PM.
    • Arklight
    • By Arklight 6th Jul 18, 2:07 PM
    • 1,465 Posts
    • 2,302 Thanks
    Arklight
    Is it Hire Purchase or PCP?

    What make and model is the car?

    Have you asked the dealer for a straight swap of an equivalent vehicle?

    Have you escalated to the manufacturers?
    • Elinore
    • By Elinore 6th Jul 18, 6:27 PM
    • 151 Posts
    • 469 Thanks
    Elinore
    Hi Arklight,

    Hire purchase
    Smart for two - sport prime (only one of this style in the country)
    No, i mentioned it several times while she was in that i was unhappy and i was looking to escalate the matter - they brushed me off - twice quite rudely.
    As such after the last attempt to repair failed i have gone to the finance company as they are the owners of the vehicle
    • daveyjp
    • By daveyjp 6th Jul 18, 6:44 PM
    • 7,652 Posts
    • 6,214 Thanks
    daveyjp
    Sounds similar to how smart dealt with us when our smart suffered numerous problems. 8 weeks they had it and still failed to fix all the faults we had evidence for.

    The bonus was we owned ours so we simply drove it to another dealership and swapped it for something reliable.
    • Elinore
    • By Elinore 25th Jul 18, 1:06 PM
    • 151 Posts
    • 469 Thanks
    Elinore
    UPDATE

    Contacted by finance company today - they will be taking the car back. I will be contacted shortly to hash out the details. They have mentioned the return of my deposit and some goodwill (only mentioned, no figures)


    Reading between the lines the finance company have had little or no response from the dealership. In light of all the details I had provided and the matter was coming up to the end of the regulatory deadline I think they decided to settle.


    So, lets see how this plays out.
    Last edited by Elinore; 25-07-2018 at 1:15 PM.
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