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  • FIRST POST
    • k3ssl3r
    • By k3ssl3r 17th Feb 18, 6:59 PM
    • 16Posts
    • 18Thanks
    k3ssl3r
    PCN APCOA- BHX Airport
    • #1
    • 17th Feb 18, 6:59 PM
    PCN APCOA- BHX Airport 17th Feb 18 at 6:59 PM
    PCN rceived two days ago from APCOA regarding vehicle allegedly "Failing to park in a designated parking area" Birmingham Airport.

    The details of the PCN show 4 photographs, two of which are identical and show a stationary car in a feeder lane, having just exited a car park barrier, with a row of traffic to the right. Another photo is a close up of the Reg for ANPR purposes and the last of some signage somewhere or other, not seemingly related to the position of the car on the PCN photographs. The car was not parked, no one got in or out, and the engine was running. The photgraphs are time stamped for a total period of 11 seconds.

    One of the occupants of the car (SWIM) is a BB holder with severe multiple health issues, meaning that walking any distance is a severe problem. The visit to BHX was to pick up. The driver (unknown) drove around trying to find designated disabled parking for several minutes, this involved driving into a car park (no disabled bays evident) and then driving back out within minutes paying a fee of £5.10 for the pleasure. After several failed attempts to locate dedicated disabled parking that was near enough to be usable, they eventually gave up and went to the 'Meet and Greet ' cabin where a ticket was stamped on production af a BB, directions given and everything proceeded as normal.

    Having done some spade work here, pepipoo, parkingcowboys and prankster, it's become rather obvious that this is a modern day D!ck Turpin scam.

    Now I can fire off the standard template, but I wonder if people could give me a nudge on anything further that I could and should add at this stage, and hence for the response to inevitable rejection..

    Clearly this isn't parking.
    No mention of PoFA
    Grace period? Disabled motorists guidelines?
    Relevant land/byelaws?
    BB badge holder? Should some of this information be redacted if submitted?
    DVLA/DPA kodoe guidelines breached?
    Anything else I've overlooked?

    Any pointers gratefully received. I've seen several cases where I could lift text and compile a lenghty defence, but I assume that is for the POPLA part after the knee-jerk auto-rejection letter?

    It goes without saying that this is taking the p155 big time. Clearly profiteering.

    Should I just send the template to get the POPLA number and meanwhile compile a list of defences from the vast amounts of useful info to be found here and elsewhere?

    Let me also take this opportunity to thank members who offer advice to the un-initiated. This is absolutely appreciated.

    Regards

    K

    Dear Sir/Madam,

    Re PCN number: xxxxxxxxx

    I am the keeper of the vehicle which received this purported 'parking charge'. There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. I am not liable and I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs are in small print and the onerous terms are not readable.

    Should you fail to cancel this PCN immediately, I require the following information with your template rejection:

    1. Does your charge represent damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.
    2. Please provide dated photos of the signs that you say were on site, which you contend formed a contract.
    3. Please provide all photographs taken of this vehicle.

    I am alarmed by your contact and I do not give you consent to process any data relating to me, or this vehicle. I deny liability and will not respond to debt collectors. You must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA, and should you fail to respond accordingly, your company will be reported to the Information Commissioner.

    I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and will also be making a formal complaint to your client landowner.

    If you are a current BPA member, send me a POPLA code. If you are an IPC firm, cease and desist with all contact.

    Yours faithfully,


    etc etc
Page 2
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Apr 18, 5:18 PM
    • 18,114 Posts
    • 22,902 Thanks
    Redx
    just copy and adapt any recent APCOA appeal for BHX or Luton airports

    not relevant land so no keeper liability is one of many points to use, usually there will be about 6 or 7 points on the typical popla appeal , so the appeal is almost already written for you by previous apellants
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • k3ssl3r
    • By k3ssl3r 16th Apr 18, 6:28 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    k3ssl3r
    POPLA submission
    Is this good enough to go?

    hxxps://www.dropbox.com/s/n0bqm8ow1jx2e03/POPLAweb.pdf?dl=0

    Anything I've forgotten?

    If ok then I'll send it off.

    k
    Last edited by k3ssl3r; 16-04-2018 at 7:08 PM. Reason: updated pdf
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 16th Apr 18, 6:48 PM
    • 7,173 Posts
    • 6,655 Thanks
    KeithP
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/258xhirn90yrd45/POPLAweb.pdf?dl=0

    I am the appellant throughout (as I am entitled to be)...
    Of course you are. You are the one appealing.

    That should really be:
    I am the keeper throughout (as I am entitled to be)...

    Also, I would suggest that you repeat each section heading, maybe in bold, at the start of each section to make the start of each section easily identifiable.

    Otherwise, looks ok to me, but see if others have comments.
    Last edited by KeithP; 16-04-2018 at 6:52 PM.
    .
    • k3ssl3r
    • By k3ssl3r 16th Apr 18, 7:12 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    k3ssl3r
    Changed link and updated to

    hxxps://www.dropbox.com/s/n0bqm8ow1jx2e03/POPLAweb.pdf?dl=0

    Of course you are. You are the one appealing.

    That should really be:
    I am the keeper throughout (as I am entitled to be)...

    Doh! Thanks for that.
    I think it must be medication time, the words are melting into a single lump of text now

    Also, I would suggest that you repeat each section heading, maybe in bold, at the start of each section to make the start of each section easily identifiable.

    Otherwise, looks ok to me, but see if others have comments.
    Cheers KP

    k
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 16th Apr 18, 7:18 PM
    • 35,594 Posts
    • 19,803 Thanks
    Quentin
    Instead of posting multiple disguised links why not paste it here??
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 16th Apr 18, 7:23 PM
    • 7,173 Posts
    • 6,655 Thanks
    KeithP
    Why bother even disguising the links?

    You can clearly post real live links, as you did in post #24.
    .
    • k3ssl3r
    • By k3ssl3r 16th Apr 18, 8:09 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    k3ssl3r
    Because Iím posting from a hospital ward attached to a drip. On a tablet. Without Word.
    My text editor knackers the formatting completely, into one lump of of text, I thought someone might moan at that.
    I do have a pdf editor though, and access to Dropbox.
    Sorry if I made things difficult for you, any help is much appreciated.
    Best
    K
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 16th Apr 18, 8:13 PM
    • 17,574 Posts
    • 27,785 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I wouldn't do too much overthinking on this - if it's long enough, APCOA will cave.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • k3ssl3r
    • By k3ssl3r 16th Apr 18, 8:24 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    k3ssl3r
    Why bother even disguising the links?

    You can clearly post real live links, as you did in post #24.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    I thought that was frowned upon, read it somewhere on here?

    Oh well. Iíve done both in this thread so Iíve annoyed everyone in equal measure.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 16th Apr 18, 8:31 PM
    • 35,594 Posts
    • 19,803 Thanks
    Quentin
    Disguised links are the only way newbies can post a link!

    Usually a regular then assists by making them live.As was done for you in #23! Even though you have got link posting privilege.

    Why bark yourself when so many willing helpers here?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Apr 18, 11:59 PM
    • 57,422 Posts
    • 71,021 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Because Iím posting from a hospital ward attached to a drip. On a tablet. Without Word.
    Originally posted by k3ssl3r
    Best wishes for a speedy recovery - and yes, you will beat APCOA!

    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • k3ssl3r
    • By k3ssl3r 26th Apr 18, 2:56 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    k3ssl3r
    Whoop!

    Appeal has been withdrawn by the operator
    Withdrawn on 25/04/2018

    Thanks for everyone's advice with this.

    Couldn't have done it without the help of posters and the wealth of information on this site.

    Now to write to my MP about this shower.

    k
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 26th Apr 18, 3:00 PM
    • 35,594 Posts
    • 19,803 Thanks
    Quentin
    Good news.


    But they have presumably withdrawn from contesting your appeal??
    • k3ssl3r
    • By k3ssl3r 26th Apr 18, 3:06 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    k3ssl3r
    Cancelled
    My/keepers email is down so I have only the popla site to check out whats going on.

    it says

    Appeal has been withdrawn by the operator
    You do not need to take any action

    Appeal has been withdrawn by the operator
    Withdrawn on 25/04/2018

    Verification Code
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Withdrawal reasons
    Cancelled
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 26th Apr 18, 6:34 PM
    • 17,574 Posts
    • 27,785 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Now to write to my MP about this shower.
    Ask your MP to write to POPLA and ask them how many cases do APCOA withdraw after a motorist has put forward an appeal and how many appeals do they contest. It might give a fair reflection of how justified APCOA feel their charges are.

    As POPLA (and the BPA) are not required to answer Freedom of Information requests, they might just feel under sufficient pressure from a MP to provide the data.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Castle
    • By Castle 26th Apr 18, 7:06 PM
    • 1,704 Posts
    • 2,301 Thanks
    Castle
    The POPLA report for the year ended September 2017 showed that APCOA withdrew 596 cases out of 1,608 appeals lodged, (so some 37%, which is exactly the total average for all companies).
    https://www.popla.co.uk/docs/default-source/default-document-library/popla-annual-report-2017-final.pdf?sfvrsn=2
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