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  • FIRST POST
    • ellaro
    • By ellaro 16th Feb 18, 7:56 PM
    • 21Posts
    • 34Thanks
    ellaro
    90 seconds
    • #1
    • 16th Feb 18, 7:56 PM
    90 seconds 16th Feb 18 at 7:56 PM
    Hi newbie here

    Ive been given one of those myparkingcharge.co.uk tickets so have read up on what to do, so Ive waited for the ntk which has arrived today and will send them the IPC template in the newbies section.
    I am disabled and was ticketed for not displaying my badge, my dashcam shows me leaving the car and one and a half minutes later getting the ticket which doesnt seem time to read their signs. The IPC code says that I should be given a reasonable time and although it doesnt specify what this is it seems 10 minutes is normal.
    The IPC template talks about obtaining my details without reasonable cause for not following the IPC code of conduct so my question is how do I go about suing them for this?
Page 2
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 19th Feb 18, 9:10 AM
    • 36,819 Posts
    • 83,315 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    No disabled signs visible anywhere from the driver's point of view.

    The car was parked, you can hear the door being shut and locked, and see "something" as someone moves away, then the scammer operative appears 80s later with 'phone already out ready to take pictures.

    That's not enough time for an able bodied person to read signs and decide whether they want to park, let alone anyone else.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 19th Feb 18, 10:49 AM
    • 2,659 Posts
    • 3,348 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    IMHO said person will be getting retraining right now ..... or worse !

    keep up the good work

    Ralph
    • ellaro
    • By ellaro 19th Feb 18, 6:31 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    ellaro
    Should I send them the video?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 19th Feb 18, 6:39 PM
    • 7,728 Posts
    • 7,485 Thanks
    KeithP
    Should I send them the video?
    Originally posted by ellaro
    Send the youtube link - as suggested in post #15.
    .
    • ellaro
    • By ellaro 28th Feb 18, 7:58 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    ellaro
    Ive heard back from the IPC, they said they cannot comment on the legalities of the parking charge, thats despite me never questioning this, I showed them the video and complained they were being predatory and not following the IPC code of conduct.
    Not sure they actually read what I had put!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 28th Feb 18, 8:00 PM
    • 58,576 Posts
    • 72,081 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    OK so now escalate the complaint to your MP, the DVLA, Trading Standards, and tell them what rubbish you got back from the IPC, when reporting predatory ticketing, with video evidence.

    And how about your local press?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • ellaro
    • By ellaro 28th Feb 18, 8:03 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    ellaro
    Ive got an email from the DVLA also, thats asking for the registration number of the vehicle so they can look into it. I have emailed my MP and awaiting his response.
    The response from IPC has dissapeared from their site!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 28th Feb 18, 8:28 PM
    • 18,035 Posts
    • 28,573 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    The response from IPC has dissapeared from their site!
    Presumably you have a printed version?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • ellaro
    • By ellaro 9th Mar 18, 10:09 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    ellaro
    Ive heard back from vcs with the expected rejection......

    "We refer to your appeal in respect of the above Charge Notice (CN) received on 20/02/2018.
    Having considered the points you have raised and reviewed our records, we are unable to accept your appeal. Our
    main reason(s) for this decision are as follows:
    The signs at the car park make it clear that the land is private property and that a Charge of 100 will be levied if
    vehicles park outside of the Terms and Conditions displayed. The signs state that all vehicles which park in a bay
    designated for use by a disabled person must clearly display a valid Disabled Persons Blue Badge. The above
    detailed vehicle was parked within a designated disabled parking bay without a valid Blue Badge being clearly
    displayed therefore you became liable for the Charge advertised.
    While we appreciate that you have since supplied a valid Blue Badge, the fact remains that this was not clearly
    displayed at the time the vehicle was parked. We should reiterate that it is the motorists responsibility to ensure that
    they are complying with the Terms and Conditions displayed at the car park, before leaving the vehicle. In this case
    ensuring that a Disabled Persons Blue Badge was displayed and clearly visible. Furthermore, we refer you to the
    Blue Badge Scheme Handbook, which clearly states: "When using the parking concessions (or parking facilities) you
    must display the badge on the dashboard. The front of the badge should face upwards, showing the wheelchair
    symbol".

    So they "reiterate that it is the motorists responsibility to ensure they are complying with the terms and conditions displayed at the car park" but they dont give the motorist any time to read them, it seems the motorist should be aware of them before parking?
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 9th Mar 18, 11:23 AM
    • 2,765 Posts
    • 3,443 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    These are teh same group that require you to read a sign with 200 wpords in it at 30mph, without stopping. If they stop they claim you entered a contract.

    Ignore them, and debt collectors. They would always reject.
    • ellaro
    • By ellaro 9th Mar 18, 6:05 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    ellaro
    Ive heard back from Andrew Cutter at the DVLA, he stated that they cannot get involved as its a matter between vcs and their ata which is the ipc. I did tell him I had already been fobbed of by the ipc but he wasnt interested.
    I wouldnt be bothered about them taking me to court and would gladly show the video to a judge!

    So I should now go into ignore mode?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Mar 18, 9:44 PM
    • 58,576 Posts
    • 72,081 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes, albeit (if you have not already) you could show the video to your MP, Trading Standards and to Sir Greg Knight MP by emailing his office.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • ellaro
    • By ellaro 10th Mar 18, 8:33 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    ellaro
    Sorry Umkomaas just saw your reply, yes I copied it despite their site not allowing copy/paste, I used an app to by-pass this.

    I will email Sir Greg Knight as per your advice CM, many thanks, my MP has seen it and Im waiting to hear back from him.
    • ellaro
    • By ellaro 27th Mar 18, 2:45 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    ellaro
    Im going into ignore mode with these people but thought it would be worth posting up the reply my MP has had from the IPC, Im not an expert but it looks full of holes to me...


    "Dear MP

    Firstly please let me apologise for the delay in responding, I have been out of the office for a couple of days.

    I can confirm the car park in question is a car park run by Vehicle Control Services who are a member of our Accredited Operator Scheme (AOS).The terms of parking within this car park are that vehicles may park for a maximum period of 2 hours, when complying with the terms and conditions. Their membership requires them to comply with our Code of Practice and affords them the ability to apply for Registered Keeper information where a motorist breaches the rules of the car park and needs to be contacted. They are required to have an internal appeals and complaints process and where the motorist!!!8217;s appeal is rejected they are required, so long as the motorist has followed the appropriate process, to offer an appeal to The Independent Appeals Service (IAS). At the IAS all appeals are dealt with by a practicing lawyer.

    It is worth noting that Vehicle Control Services go beyond what they are legally required to do to provide parking facilities for motorists with disabilities. The law requires that they make !!!8216;reasonable adjustments!!!8217; to assist motorists with disabilities. In addition to making reasonable adjustments, such as providing larger bays for use only by disabled motorists, Excel Parking Services also provide free parking to all registered Blue Badge holders on the proviso that they display a valid Blue Badge. I am sure you appreciate this is something which many private parking operators do not offer and a gesture which is hugely appreciated by many Blue Badge holders.

    When Ellaro parked in the car park I understand she did so in a disable bay and did not display a Blue Badge. This left the car park attendant completely unaware of Ellaro!!!8217;s circumstances as her vehicle simply appeared to be a vehicle that was parked in breach of the terms and conditions. Unfortunately, this is a regular occurrence on many private car parks and one which causes many difficulties, including driving up prices for the innocent majority of motorists who follow reasonable rules and pay the reasonable fees for parking.

    We have discussed the issue with Helen Dolphin MBE. Helen is the country!!!8217;s leading disability expert for parking and regularly deals with issues surrounding the use (and misuse) of Blue Badges. Helen is a quadriplegic amputee and experiences first-hand the difficulties of motorists with disabilities. She confirms that the Blue Badge scheme does not extend to private land and that many operators do afford motorists the ability to park on their land in disabled bays either for payment or free of charge on the proviso they display a valid Blue Badge. She is a keen advocate of motorists who have a Blue Badge using it responsibly and displaying it wheresoever required. She also reminded me of the concertina effect of one motorist parking in a disabled bay without displaying a badge and is therefore a keen advocate of those bays being protected through the enforcement of Parking Charges.

    Ellaro has referred to the IPC code of Conduct, specifically:

    15. Grace Periods

    15.1 Drivers should be allowed a sufficient amount of time to park and read any signs so they may make an informed decision as to whether or not to remain on the site.
    15.2 Drivers must be allowed a minimum period of 10 minutes to leave a site after a pre-paid or permitted period of parking has expired.

    Motorists are given a sufficient amount of time to exit their vehicle, look around for any signage on site and approach the signage to familiarise themselves with the applicable Terms and Conditions. You will see from the attached contravention images there is a sign positioned directly behind the (disabled) bay in which Ellaro parked her vehicle; you will also note that nobody is present at the sign reading the Terms and Conditions. As such, Ellaro had the opportunity to read and make an informed decision as to whether she leaves her vehicle parked in breach of the Terms and Conditions of parking within the car park. You will note that the IPC Code of Practice does not specify that a 10 minute period should be allowed for the purpose of reading signs; a grace period of 10 minutes is to be given at the END of a pre-paid or permitted period of parking for a motorist to leave the site. In this case, as nobody is present at the sign, the driver, (Ellaro) has had the opportunity to read and take the relevant steps to comply with the Terms and Conditions.

    Having reviewed the complaint, I do not feel it is appropriate to intervene in the matter.

    Kind Regards
    Vicky"
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 27th Mar 18, 3:04 PM
    • 9,520 Posts
    • 9,302 Thanks
    The Deep
    Never mind. It must have cost them a bit to produce that, and I am sure that your MP is not happy that his representations have been rebuffed.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 27th Mar 18, 3:16 PM
    • 36,819 Posts
    • 83,315 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Rebut all the rubbish they quote to your MP, especially using their own words where they admit that the Blue Badge scheme does not apply on private land.

    Contact local and national press. Kick up a stink.

    I would also suggest you contact Helen Dolphin OBE and ask why the hell she appears to support these unregulated scammers who have deliberately flouted the requirements of the EA 2010. Send her the video and ask why she thinks it is acceptable for the scammers to issue a PCN 80 seconds after arrival, and with no disabled signs, or any other signs visible to the driver.
    Tell her what MPs think of the scammers.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 27th Mar 18, 3:44 PM
    • 2,140 Posts
    • 3,595 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    Reading your original post, it seems to me that you walked away from the vehicle to go and get a ticket/investigate whether a ticket was needed. Is this right? That is very important.
    You entered a disabled space. Actually you didn't know it was a disabled space at the time, but that doesn't matter. You parked and got out to go and find signs/a ticket machine. Had there been a sign fully visible from the bay, you would have realised you were entitled to free parking and would never have had to get out and leave the vehicle without the badge displayed.
    Once you'd found a sign you realised you didn't have to pay so returned to the car. Then you saw you already had a PCN all in the space of 80 seconds.


    I think these facts, if right, are crucial. It explains why you didn't immediately display your badge, and why you left the vehicle: an absence of 80 seconds is clearly within grace periods for an able-bodied person, let alone someone entitled to a badge!


    I'd also write to Helen Dolphin with a copy of that letter, an account of your experience, and ask her how she can justify her name being used in vain by a company which has clearly discriminated against you by pouncing on you within 80 seconds while you were trying to find signs.


    I'd also pursue this with IPC.


    Your first question (in your original post) was about suing them. I think your question was aimed at whether they'd incorrectly obtained your data, and if they have then you do have a potential claim (or counterclaim) under the Data Protection Act.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
    • ellaro
    • By ellaro 27th Mar 18, 3:51 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    ellaro
    I certainly will contact Helen Dolphoin and ask if she condones these people harassing a disabled person.

    Loadsofchildren what you have said is correct a, I saw a sign at the entrance to the car park but could obviously not read it so parked in what I believed to be a normal bay to go and check it out, I certainly did not see another sign due to the way my vehicle was parked. In the meantime he was ticketing me and just made threats when I informed his I was in fact disabled.
    Last edited by ellaro; 27-03-2018 at 4:02 PM.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 27th Mar 18, 4:06 PM
    • 36,819 Posts
    • 83,315 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    I certainly will contact Helen Dolphoin and ask if she condones these people harassing a disabled person.

    Loadsofchildren what you have said is correct a, I saw a sign at the entrance to the car park but could obviously not read it so parked in what I believed to be a normal bay to go and check it out, I certainly did not see another sign due to the way my vehicle was parked. In the meantime he was ticketing me and just made threats when I informed his I was in fact disabled.
    Originally posted by ellaro
    Did you mention the threats to your MP? You should mention them to Helen Dolphin as further proof that she should not be associated with this disgusting scam industry run by blood suckers. Quote the MPs words to her from the recent parliamentary debate.

    These are some of the comments made by the MPs in Parliament concerning the unregulated parking industry (Feb 2018):

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

    ''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

    These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to Helen.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 27th Mar 18, 5:47 PM
    • 18,035 Posts
    • 28,573 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    It is worth noting that Vehicle Control Services go beyond what they are legally required to do to provide parking facilities for motorists with disabilities. The law requires that they make !!!8216;reasonable adjustments!!!8217; to assist motorists with disabilities. In addition to making reasonable adjustments, such as providing larger bays for use only by disabled motorists, Excel Parking Services also provide free parking to all registered Blue Badge holders on the proviso that they display a valid Blue Badge. I am sure you appreciate this is something which many private parking operators do not offer and a gesture which is hugely appreciated by many Blue Badge holders.
    So who exactly is the IPC defending here? Just shows their contempt by responding to the MP with such a sloppy reply.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
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