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  • FIRST POST
    • worldtraveller
    • By worldtraveller 14th Feb 18, 6:31 AM
    • 11,674Posts
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    worldtraveller
    Tenants should have 'default right' to pets.......
    • #1
    • 14th Feb 18, 6:31 AM
    Tenants should have 'default right' to pets....... 14th Feb 18 at 6:31 AM
    ....according to Labour.

    Labour wants to strengthen the rights of tenants to keep a pet in their properties as part of a package of proposed animal welfare measures.

    Some rental agreements drawn up by landlords insist on no animals.

    Tenants can seek permission to keep pets but Labour wants a default right for them to do so unless there is evidence their pet will be a nuisance.

    BBC News
    There is a pleasure in the pathless woods, There is a rapture on the lonely shore, There is society, where none intrudes, By the deep sea, and music in its roar: I love not man the less, but Nature more...
Page 1
    • Ozzuk
    • By Ozzuk 14th Feb 18, 7:18 AM
    • 1,281 Posts
    • 1,892 Thanks
    Ozzuk
    • #2
    • 14th Feb 18, 7:18 AM
    • #2
    • 14th Feb 18, 7:18 AM
    Perhaps they should work harder, buy their own place then they can do what they want! And I say that as a dog owner (couldn't be without them) and I see the damage/mess they can cause.

    Another crazy idea.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 14th Feb 18, 7:19 AM
    • 16,608 Posts
    • 41,134 Thanks
    FBaby
    • #3
    • 14th Feb 18, 7:19 AM
    • #3
    • 14th Feb 18, 7:19 AM
    Don't see how it will change anything. Tenants can currently have pets even if the contract says they can't, in the same way they can change the locks even if the contract says they are not allowed.

    The issue is whether by doing something their LL isn't happy with, they are risking getting an S21 at the end of their fixed contract.
    • Ozzuk
    • By Ozzuk 14th Feb 18, 7:32 AM
    • 1,281 Posts
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    Ozzuk
    • #4
    • 14th Feb 18, 7:32 AM
    • #4
    • 14th Feb 18, 7:32 AM
    I think it could change things, not many know you can have pets, so we could see increased rental prices/larger deposits required as landlords seek to offset the perceived increase in risk (blanket allowance on pets).

    The get out for landlords is dog size - I for instance have a 50kilo rottie cross, highly unlikely I'd be able to rent (and I have had issues in the past trying).

    Just read the article, its more interesting seeing what Michael Grove is proposing - increasing animal abuse penalties. Great idea.
    Last edited by Ozzuk; 14-02-2018 at 7:37 AM.
    • deannatrois
    • By deannatrois 14th Feb 18, 7:38 AM
    • 5,283 Posts
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    deannatrois
    • #5
    • 14th Feb 18, 7:38 AM
    • #5
    • 14th Feb 18, 7:38 AM
    It obviously isn't widely known.

    I wouldn't have challenged a 'no pets' clause as I'd not want to take the risk of an eviction. Its difficult enough to stay long term in a private rental as it is.
    • anselld
    • By anselld 14th Feb 18, 7:49 AM
    • 5,605 Posts
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    anselld
    • #6
    • 14th Feb 18, 7:49 AM
    • #6
    • 14th Feb 18, 7:49 AM
    The issue is whether by doing something their LL isn't happy with, they are risking getting an S21 at the end of their fixed contract.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    Except Labour are also looking to scrap non-fault s21.
    • scottishblondie
    • By scottishblondie 14th Feb 18, 8:24 AM
    • 1,997 Posts
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    scottishblondie
    • #7
    • 14th Feb 18, 8:24 AM
    • #7
    • 14th Feb 18, 8:24 AM
    I've heard of many properties where the keeping of pets is not allowed by the terms of the lease (down south) or forbidden by the deeds of the property (in Scotland - the number and type of animals I can keep is defined in my deeds). Surely this idea would immediately come into conflict with that?
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 14th Feb 18, 8:50 AM
    • 6,848 Posts
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    Norman Castle
    • #8
    • 14th Feb 18, 8:50 AM
    • #8
    • 14th Feb 18, 8:50 AM
    ^ It is odd that leaseholders and tenants can have different rights despite being in identical properties in the same building.
    In some cases tenants are allowed pets where leaseholders aren't. Surely the lease overrides the landlords views.
    Last edited by Norman Castle; 14-02-2018 at 8:52 AM.
    Don't harass a hippie. You'll get bad karma.

    Never trust a newbie with a rtb tale.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 14th Feb 18, 9:27 AM
    • 2,528 Posts
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    Silvertabby
    • #9
    • 14th Feb 18, 9:27 AM
    • #9
    • 14th Feb 18, 9:27 AM
    Give some people an inch, and they'll be wanting to move 3 alsatians into a one bed 4th floor flat.
    Last edited by Silvertabby; 14-02-2018 at 10:05 AM.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 14th Feb 18, 9:33 AM
    • 7,315 Posts
    • 7,354 Thanks
    davidmcn
    ^ It is odd that leaseholders and tenants can have different rights despite being in identical properties in the same building.
    In some cases tenants are allowed pets where leaseholders aren't. Surely the lease overrides the landlords views.
    Originally posted by Norman Castle
    It would, though such a discrepancy is presumably where the tenanted properties are let directly by the freeholder (e.g. social housing blocks where some people have exercised the right to buy).
    • Cuilean
    • By Cuilean 14th Feb 18, 9:50 AM
    • 668 Posts
    • 1,308 Thanks
    Cuilean
    I'm concerned by the vagueness of the description "pets" at the moment. A cat, dog, rabbit or hamster is one thing. What about these trendy pets like pigs and mini horses? I'm guessing landlords who have "No pets" clauses in their letting agreements have it there for a reason. I know I do. What about landlord rights?

    I'm also worried about what else this will open the door to. Default right to smoking inside the house? Default right to loud parties every night? Can open, worms everywhere...
    Cuilean 2005. Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
    • Out, Vile Jelly
    • By Out, Vile Jelly 14th Feb 18, 10:06 AM
    • 3,913 Posts
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    Out, Vile Jelly
    Provided it doesn't contravene the building regulations, and that tenants are prepared to front a much larger deposit to cover the increased likelihood of damage, then I don't think this is unreasonable.
    They are an EYESORES!!!!
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 14th Feb 18, 10:13 AM
    • 11,928 Posts
    • 16,793 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    Perhaps they should work harder, buy their own place then they can do what they want! And I say that as a dog owner (couldn't be without them) and I see the damage/mess they can cause.

    Another crazy idea.
    Originally posted by Ozzuk
    D- for your trolling effort. Besides even when people do buy their own homes that still doesn't mean to say they can do what they want. As pointed out above someone may buy the leasehold but the lease prohibits them from having pets or even if someone buys a freehold property there could be something in the deeds which prevents them from keeping pets in the property.
    • worldtraveller
    • By worldtraveller 14th Feb 18, 10:16 AM
    • 11,674 Posts
    • 23,068 Thanks
    worldtraveller
    ...tenants are prepared to front a much larger deposit to cover the increased likelihood of damage,...
    Originally posted by Out, Vile Jelly
    That's exactly what I was thinking, certainly as a prerequisite anyway. Still not sure about the 'right' though.

    I don't have any personal experience of this issue, but my parents did many years ago. The tenant had a dog and left the flat in a disgusting state. The whole place needed "fumigation", deep cleaning, and the carpets had to be replaced.
    Last edited by worldtraveller; 14-02-2018 at 10:20 AM.
    There is a pleasure in the pathless woods, There is a rapture on the lonely shore, There is society, where none intrudes, By the deep sea, and music in its roar: I love not man the less, but Nature more...
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 14th Feb 18, 10:19 AM
    • 11,928 Posts
    • 16,793 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    Provided it doesn't contravene the building regulations, and that tenants are prepared to front a much larger deposit to cover the increased likelihood of damage, then I don't think this is unreasonable.
    Originally posted by Out, Vile Jelly
    That's exactly what I was thinking, certainly as a prerequisite anyway. Still not sure about the 'right' though.
    Originally posted by worldtraveller
    What happens if the tenant chooses to get a pet after the tenancy has started?

    Landlords need to be careful how large a deposit they ask tenants to pay. Anything which equates to more than 1/6 of the annual rent i.e. over 2 months and a premium tenancy will be created.

    http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2012/02/09/five-premium-tenancy-questions-answered/
    • worldtraveller
    • By worldtraveller 14th Feb 18, 10:22 AM
    • 11,674 Posts
    • 23,068 Thanks
    worldtraveller
    What happens if the tenant chooses to get a pet after the tenancy has started?

    Landlords need to be careful how large a deposit they ask tenants to pay. Anything which equates to more than 1/6 of the annual rent i.e. over 2 months and a premium tenancy will be created.

    http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2012/02/09/five-premium-tenancy-questions-answered/
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    Fair points!
    There is a pleasure in the pathless woods, There is a rapture on the lonely shore, There is society, where none intrudes, By the deep sea, and music in its roar: I love not man the less, but Nature more...
    • EmmyLou30
    • By EmmyLou30 14th Feb 18, 10:22 AM
    • 401 Posts
    • 489 Thanks
    EmmyLou30
    I've never understood why as a tenant someone would limit their choice and likelihood of gaining a nice rental in a sparse market by owning a pet. I mean I understand people love their animals, and many of us would love to own a pet.....but they are a luxury item, not an essential item. You do not need a pet. Just another thing that people see as their 'right' in the modern world. So yes, of course you can have a pet, but don't expect a landlord to want to let it wreck their house and investment and you should fully expect to be turned down for the better houses and have less choice than a non pet owner. This is none of the governments business.
    • lr1277
    • By lr1277 14th Feb 18, 10:28 AM
    • 548 Posts
    • 315 Thanks
    lr1277
    I am a landlord of a fourth floor flat. A few years ago, a tenant introduced a cat to the property without my knowledge and against both her tenancy agreement and my leaseholder agreement with the freeholder.

    I mistakenly didn't ask her to remove the cat or herself.

    The cat scratched all the wallpaper in every room. And by scratched, I mean great big tears in the wallpaper. The cat managed to get out or was let out into the communal corridor, where it scratched and put great tears in wallpaper.

    So I had to pay to redecorate my place and also redecorate the corridor.
    I can't remember how much of that I got back from the deposit because the redecoration costs was in the thousands.

    So what happens if there is a bigger deposit but this is insufficient to repair any damage? A court case? Oh joy!
    • CurlySue2017
    • By CurlySue2017 14th Feb 18, 10:40 AM
    • 86 Posts
    • 114 Thanks
    CurlySue2017
    I've never understood why as a tenant someone would limit their choice and likelihood of gaining a nice rental in a sparse market by owning a pet. I mean I understand people love their animals, and many of us would love to own a pet.....but they are a luxury item, not an essential item. You do not need a pet. Just another thing that people see as their 'right' in the modern world. So yes, of course you can have a pet, but don't expect a landlord to want to let it wreck their house and investment and you should fully expect to be turned down for the better houses and have less choice than a non pet owner. This is none of the governments business.
    Originally posted by EmmyLou30
    Have you ever considered that peoples circumstances can change?

    That they may end up having to rent out of necessity rather than choice when they already have a pet?
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 14th Feb 18, 10:41 AM
    • 2,970 Posts
    • 2,935 Thanks
    Comms69
    Tenants have a default right to have parties, smoke and keep pets already.


    Any clause that forbids any of the above and does not include the wording (without permission, not to be unreasonably withheld) are automatically void.


    The issue is, as always, s.21 eviction.
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