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  • FIRST POST
    • Nesty
    • By Nesty 13th Feb 18, 4:47 PM
    • 443Posts
    • 80Thanks
    Nesty
    Item signed delivered, buyer saying not received
    • #1
    • 13th Feb 18, 4:47 PM
    Item signed delivered, buyer saying not received 13th Feb 18 at 4:47 PM
    On EBAY I am the seller on this occasion. I never had this before.
    After 8-9 days after the sale. A buyer has sent me a message saying he has not received the item.
    Item been tracked and signature from the property (although I have not seen the actual signed name yet on file).
    I have sent the buyer a copy of the tracking report. Looks all watertight. Gone to the correct confirmed paypal address and delivered in 2 working days.
    The courier company won't entertain no claim from me.
    Am I covered as a seller? I don't want to be neg'd.
    I am not sure what more I can do apart from get the name from the courier company?
Page 2
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 14th Feb 18, 2:51 PM
    • 12,153 Posts
    • 8,226 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    So in effect you take the risk that a parcel will not be delivered to the actual address and there would be nothing you could do about it if it shows as dellivered?
    Originally posted by POPPYOSCAR
    In eBay and Paypal land, the delivered status is sufficient.

    As for any legal action, most people don't bother as the cost versus the gain is too prohibitive.
    • F&L
    • By F&L 14th Feb 18, 3:08 PM
    • 528 Posts
    • 582 Thanks
    F&L
    OP, it's possible the buyer is not telling the truth of course. I once had a buyer demand a refund as he claimed his always out neighbour had his parcel that I sent by Special Delivery, when the RM won't leave this delivery type with a neighbour.

    When neighbours don't get on they generally refuse to accept parcels for them. They'd also make couriers aware of it as many drivers are on the same route every day. Has he asked for a replacement or refund yet, as the former generally makes me believe them?

    I've had buyers write somewhere in their address "do not leave with neighbours" so if he's genuine I'm surprised he didn't leave a note to this effect.
    • mrcol1000
    • By mrcol1000 14th Feb 18, 3:18 PM
    • 4,570 Posts
    • 3,939 Thanks
    mrcol1000
    OP, it's possible the buyer is not telling the truth of course. I once had a buyer demand a refund as he claimed his always out neighbour had his parcel that I sent by Special Delivery, when the RM won't leave this delivery type with a neighbour.

    When neighbours don't get on they generally refuse to accept parcels for them. They'd also make couriers aware of it as many drivers are on the same route every day. Has he asked for a replacement or refund yet, as the former generally makes me believe them?

    I've had buyers write somewhere in their address "do not leave with neighbours" so if he's genuine I'm surprised he didn't leave a note to this effect.
    Originally posted by F&L

    As above is what everyone seems to be missing. Really though its up to the buyer to make a seller aware of any special delivery instructions. Its irrelevant that the wrong postage method was used, it has been delivered. In 2018 you accept if you buy something off the internet, it may well not be delivered directly to your hands.
    • Nesty
    • By Nesty 14th Feb 18, 4:32 PM
    • 443 Posts
    • 80 Thanks
    Nesty
    Hi all thanks for the replies.
    All sorted buyer has the item & pleased.
    It was in the next premises as stated. However the main break down in communication is that Hermes didn't leave a card for the buyer.
    So buyer didn't know where it was & the shop was waiting for them to collect!
    How many times I hear this that Hermes, RM & Amazon often don't leave cards so no one knows where everyone stands!
    • Nesty
    • By Nesty 14th Feb 18, 4:35 PM
    • 443 Posts
    • 80 Thanks
    Nesty
    As above is what everyone seems to be missing. Really though its up to the buyer to make a seller aware of any special delivery instructions. Its irrelevant that the wrong postage method was used, it has been delivered. In 2018 you accept if you buy something off the internet, it may well not be delivered directly to your hands.
    Originally posted by mrcol1000
    I do put in my listings about any postage adjustments. Some do want their items sent to their workplace. (Yes, I know posting to other, than confirmed paypal address,). We will leave that one for another time!
    Anyway all sorted now!
    • KxMx
    • By KxMx 14th Feb 18, 8:58 PM
    • 7,372 Posts
    • 10,616 Thanks
    KxMx
    Royal Mail Deliver to Neighbour scheme can be opted out of, you fill in a short webform and they send a sticker to go on the letter box.
    • Dox
    • By Dox 14th Feb 18, 11:43 PM
    • 531 Posts
    • 314 Thanks
    Dox
    I do put in my listings about any postage adjustments. Some do want their items sent to their workplace. (Yes, I know posting to other, than confirmed paypal address,). We will leave that one for another time!
    Anyway all sorted now!
    Originally posted by Nesty
    There's no issue about posting to the workplace provided that is the address a buyer enters during checkout. Put a reminder on the 'additional checkout instructions' (under the 'payment options' section while you are doing the listing) to remind people you can only send to the address they enter as they checkout.
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 15th Feb 18, 9:46 AM
    • 1,773 Posts
    • 9,484 Thanks
    NBLondon
    As above is what everyone seems to be missing. Really though its up to the buyer to make a seller aware of any special delivery instructions. Its irrelevant that the wrong postage method was used, it has been delivered. In 2018 you accept if you buy something off the internet, it may well not be delivered directly to your hands.
    Originally posted by mrcol1000
    I don't expect it delivered to my hands but to my address - that's not special that's normal. Do I also have to specify "Leave it at Number 1 except on Wednesday mornings 'cause that's her yoga class - in which case try Number 7 but don't try Number 2 across the road 'cause they are thieving gits and by the way - REMEMBER TO LEAVE YOUR CARD"?

    If it has been delivered elsewhere (even with the best intentions) and tracked elsewhere - then I don't accept that as delivered for seller protection purposes. If it has been tracked to my address but delivered elsewhere - that's fraudulent reporting by the courier. Given the number of horror stories about Hermes and Yodel etc - and the fact that the service can vary greatly between individual couriers - there are buyers who would choose a seller because they specified Royal Mail and therefore are justified to object if the seller chose otherwise and an item went astray.

    Anyway - well done Nesty for doing the decent thing and sorting it with the courier and not just assuming the buyer is a scammer and hiding behind the almighty tracking number.
    Womble #7 - Running Total 9.68 $1.99 3.35 S//0.10 (that's supposed to be 10 Ukrainian kopiyki but the site is refusing to display the symbol) Bds$0.10 A$0.05 C$0.88 S$0.20 zl0.02 (Polish grosze) LB0.22 (Bulgarian stotinka) ISKr 5 DKr 0.50 CHF 0.50
    • ballisticbrian
    • By ballisticbrian 15th Feb 18, 12:10 PM
    • 3,371 Posts
    • 1,923 Thanks
    ballisticbrian
    If it has been delivered elsewhere (even with the best intentions) and tracked elsewhere - then I don't accept that as delivered for seller protection purposes.
    This conversation is forgetting one important thing - this is eBay seller protection we are talking about. It's different if you are a company and the same situation occurred, in which case you would have to decide how to deal with the complaint rather than face trading standards or being taken to court. Because it's eBay you are covered by seller protection (as thin as this protection is, it's for this very purpose); you got your tracking / proof of delivery - eBay will cover you and will probably pay out of their own coffers for it, it's why we pay these huge fees.
    Warning: any unnecessary disclaimers appearing under my posts do not bear any connection with reality, either intended, accidental or otherwise. Your statutory rights are not affected.
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 15th Feb 18, 2:10 PM
    • 1,773 Posts
    • 9,484 Thanks
    NBLondon
    Because it's eBay you are covered by seller protection (as thin as this protection is, it's for this very purpose); you got your tracking / proof of delivery
    Originally posted by ballisticbrian
    Proof of delivery to a different address counts?
    - eBay will cover you and will probably pay out of their own coffers for it, it's why we pay these huge fees.
    I hope so - because neither seller nor buyer should be out of pocket through the actions of a courier or an unconnected person who was given an item by a courier. So it's effectively extra insurance that the seller pays for (and adds into their pricing model) to protect against fake INRs.
    Womble #7 - Running Total 9.68 $1.99 3.35 S//0.10 (that's supposed to be 10 Ukrainian kopiyki but the site is refusing to display the symbol) Bds$0.10 A$0.05 C$0.88 S$0.20 zl0.02 (Polish grosze) LB0.22 (Bulgarian stotinka) ISKr 5 DKr 0.50 CHF 0.50
    • Nesty
    • By Nesty 15th Feb 18, 3:09 PM
    • 443 Posts
    • 80 Thanks
    Nesty
    Proof of delivery to a different address counts? I hope so - because neither seller nor buyer should be out of pocket through the actions of a courier or an unconnected person who was given an item by a courier. So it's effectively extra insurance that the seller pays for (and adds into their pricing model) to protect against fake INRs.
    Originally posted by NBLondon
    Ebay clearly advocate. Good sellers don't blame the delivery service. In this sentence they washing their hands of any involvement whilst pushing it all on to your responsibility.
    In fact, ebay have a little responsibility, as possible, but at same time trying to inflate their fees higher & higher. Well that's the way I see it!
    • biscit
    • By biscit 15th Feb 18, 11:21 PM
    • 956 Posts
    • 791 Thanks
    biscit
    It is normal delivery practice to leave packages with neighbours, or (if signature not paid for) in a safe place. Delivery to a neighbour is not breach of contract.

    What should happen if you are not in? RM can send it back to the depot, but courier companies don't have collection offices. The courier has their pay set for a successful delivery about once every 2 minutes. They have to make 3 delivery attempts, but is only the successful attempts that are paid.
    Last edited by biscit; 15-02-2018 at 11:30 PM.
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 16th Feb 18, 9:46 AM
    • 1,773 Posts
    • 9,484 Thanks
    NBLondon
    Ebay clearly advocate. Good sellers don't blame the delivery service. In this sentence they washing their hands of any involvement whilst pushing it all on to your responsibility.
    In fact, ebay have a little responsibility, as possible, but at same time trying to inflate their fees higher & higher. Well that's the way I see it!
    Originally posted by Nesty
    ???

    Are you saying you think eBay advocate delivery to any old address? Or that eBay don't want to take any responsibility for the failure of a delivery service?

    Good sellers do what you did - try and find out what went wrong and press the delivery service to complete the delivery to the buyer . It seems that some posters here are taking the attitude of "I've got a tracking number so I'm protected and anything else is the buyer's problem to sort out."

    When I used to dabble in buying and selling (comics, books and geeky stuff) my listings always had a phrase like "If the item goes missing in the post, I will follow RM's rules to claim and refund you." Maybe I was lucky but I never ended up out of pocket in either direction.
    Womble #7 - Running Total 9.68 $1.99 3.35 S//0.10 (that's supposed to be 10 Ukrainian kopiyki but the site is refusing to display the symbol) Bds$0.10 A$0.05 C$0.88 S$0.20 zl0.02 (Polish grosze) LB0.22 (Bulgarian stotinka) ISKr 5 DKr 0.50 CHF 0.50
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 16th Feb 18, 9:53 AM
    • 1,773 Posts
    • 9,484 Thanks
    NBLondon
    It is normal delivery practice to leave packages with neighbours, or (if signature not paid for) in a safe place.
    Originally posted by biscit
    Is it normal practice to actually inform the intended recipient of this? Not always from some accounts....
    Delivery to a neighbour is not breach of contract.
    The sender's contract with the courier maybe - the seller's contract with the buyer is a different thing

    What should happen if you are not in? RM can send it back to the depot, but courier companies don't have collection offices. The courier has their pay set for a successful delivery about once every 2 minutes. They have to make 3 delivery attempts, but is only the successful attempts that are paid.
    Yeah - that's the harsh reality for the self-employed courier/driver. Some will make the 3 attempts, some won't. Some will try and find a neighbour and leave a card, some won't. Which is why some buyers specifically look for a seller advertising RM delivery - or avoid the courier firms they distrust.
    Womble #7 - Running Total 9.68 $1.99 3.35 S//0.10 (that's supposed to be 10 Ukrainian kopiyki but the site is refusing to display the symbol) Bds$0.10 A$0.05 C$0.88 S$0.20 zl0.02 (Polish grosze) LB0.22 (Bulgarian stotinka) ISKr 5 DKr 0.50 CHF 0.50
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 16th Feb 18, 12:19 PM
    • 12,153 Posts
    • 8,226 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    ???

    Are you saying you think eBay advocate delivery to any old address? Or that eBay don't want to take any responsibility for the failure of a delivery service?
    Originally posted by NBLondon
    Ebay ask for a proof of delivery. They don't elaborate on that but I know when I've escalated a case as a seller, they check the online POD to see if the 'delivery office' is one that is close to the buyer's address.

    As a seller you should protect your account first, help the buyer second.
    • Nesty
    • By Nesty 16th Feb 18, 1:40 PM
    • 443 Posts
    • 80 Thanks
    Nesty
    In my listings I do state I can use another delivery service to business requirements. Though if people don't ask or raise the point they actually want RM, then I assume I have that discretion as the seller.
    Though when I said to the buyer. If he was out. What would RM do, probably leave it next door. So in this instance it wasn't, so much the delivery method, but merely where it was left!

    This buyer has bought more since. I now put on the front using RM, addressee only, if no answer then card. If someone has a issue with neighbours, then I would of thought it's up to the buyer to informer the seller of any postal adjustments.

    Anyway it's all sorted now!
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