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  • FIRST POST
    • Adam Thickett
    • By Adam Thickett 12th Feb 18, 7:52 PM
    • 4Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Adam Thickett
    Mis-represented freehold/leasehold
    • #1
    • 12th Feb 18, 7:52 PM
    Mis-represented freehold/leasehold 12th Feb 18 at 7:52 PM
    Hi all,

    Me and my gf are first time buyers. We made an offer and had it accepted by the seller on a freehold property that has a flat in what used to be its basement. This caused some problems with the mortgage but is now resolved. We are in the process of conveyance and waiting to hear about a mortgage approval and our solicitors have contacted us saying the sellers are only offering 50% of the freehold and even that is only transferred to us IF the flat is sold.

    We feel we were misled by the estate agent and the seller as we were given the impression on all paperwork that we would receive 100% of the freehold with our purchase until the contract was given to our solicitors. Our solicitors have asked and the seller won't budge. We are already 700 out of pocket on searches and broker fees and are now considering pulling out as the whole situation is far more complicated than we wanted. Also I am concerned that we could get rejected for the mortgage as that was submitted in the basis of us owning the freehold and selling on would be a big problem for us when we want to move up the ladder.

    Right now any advice would be appreciated as our solicitors are giving us the absolute minimum they can get away with.

    Thanks

    Adam.
Page 1
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 12th Feb 18, 7:57 PM
    • 4,363 Posts
    • 6,242 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    • #2
    • 12th Feb 18, 7:57 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Feb 18, 7:57 PM
    Do you mean that you thought that you were buying the whole building including the flat but not the vendor is saying that you have to buy the flat seperately?
    • Alter ego
    • By Alter ego 12th Feb 18, 7:59 PM
    • 2,342 Posts
    • 2,293 Thanks
    Alter ego
    • #3
    • 12th Feb 18, 7:59 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Feb 18, 7:59 PM
    As I understand it, you cannot ever hold 50% of a freehold.

    It is possible to own 50% of a company which owns the freehold and another party to hold the other 50% (of the company)
    Ignore me if you like, it's not the real me anyway.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 12th Feb 18, 8:14 PM
    • 25,017 Posts
    • 68,499 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    • #4
    • 12th Feb 18, 8:14 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Feb 18, 8:14 PM
    There need to be some leases on the property. If they are splitting the title then it could be purchased with you owning the freehold and owning the lease to downstairs with them being sole leaseholders, or the freehold is shared between the two.

    You can!!!8217;t just own the freehold and there not be some sort of !!!8216;complication!!!8217;, simply because there is a flat underneath. You both need the support and protection of the other property to maintain structural integrity.

    I think you!!!8217;re possibly blowing this out of proportion. Selling would not be a problem and obtaining a mortgage is not a problem if there is a freehold company and you and downstairs both own a 50% share of that company and both also have leases. Probably 999 years. That set up exists in the hundreds of thousands without issue.

    It might sound complicated to you as a FTB, but that is as about as nice a set up as one can expect when one lives above or below another person. Two properties, both responsible for the upkeep and maintenance of the building. As good as it gets, short of not having any upstairs or downstairs neighbours at all.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • Adam Thickett
    • By Adam Thickett 12th Feb 18, 9:25 PM
    • 4 Posts
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    Adam Thickett
    • #5
    • 12th Feb 18, 9:25 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Feb 18, 9:25 PM
    No. We are trying to buy a house which has been renovated recently and a separate flat added. We were told we would own the freehold and the flat was being sold as leasehold in a separate transaction.
    • Adam Thickett
    • By Adam Thickett 12th Feb 18, 9:27 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Adam Thickett
    • #6
    • 12th Feb 18, 9:27 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Feb 18, 9:27 PM
    We were explicitly told by the estate agent that the house was freehold and the flat was leasehold. I would not have made an offer on the house had I known that it was not being offered with 100% of the freehold. It was actually a fairly big selling point for me.
    • Adam Thickett
    • By Adam Thickett 12th Feb 18, 9:29 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Adam Thickett
    • #7
    • 12th Feb 18, 9:29 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Feb 18, 9:29 PM
    We were also told there was not a management company in place for the property which I think is now not the case if I understand what you're suggesting correctly.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 12th Feb 18, 9:52 PM
    • 44,085 Posts
    • 52,225 Thanks
    G_M
    • #8
    • 12th Feb 18, 9:52 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Feb 18, 9:52 PM
    There has been no mention of a management company. Who has told you there is?

    Having said that, if
    I would not have made an offer on the house had I known that it was not being offered with 100% of the freehold.
    then you must choose now between

    * walking away from your 700 costs, and the property, or
    * biting the bullet and taking whatever is offered (though it still seems unclear pending sale of the flat), or
    * trying to renegotiate the price

    Sorry. those are the options.
    • Blackbeard of Perranporth
    • By Blackbeard of Perranporth 12th Feb 18, 9:59 PM
    • 5,037 Posts
    • 30,330 Thanks
    Blackbeard of Perranporth
    • #9
    • 12th Feb 18, 9:59 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Feb 18, 9:59 PM
    Use your feet. Walk!
    Commemorate Celebrate Inspire
    #RAF100 A century of service!
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 12th Feb 18, 10:11 PM
    • 25,017 Posts
    • 68,499 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    Freehold companies and managing companies are different things.

    Why is it so good that your flat has all of the freehold? It doesn!!!8217;t make life any easier, you still have to get money out of the downstairs flat.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • bouicca21
    • By bouicca21 12th Feb 18, 10:21 PM
    • 3,619 Posts
    • 5,416 Thanks
    bouicca21
    Why do you think owning the entire freehold is desirable?
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 13th Feb 18, 1:06 AM
    • 2,068 Posts
    • 1,392 Thanks
    Tom99
    You need to understand the set up. It may not be all bad.

    It could be that you and the flat each have a lease and that the freehold is jointly owned by you and the flat owner 50/50.

    That might be the normal set up in a house that has been converted into two flats.

    You need to understand the lease terms of both flats. Are they identical as to length of lease, ground rent and other terms and how are costs to be shared.

    With that set up, you have to agree with your flat neighbour things like building insurance, external repairs etc and then costs of these shared services will be split between you in accordance with the terms of the lease.

    If you owned 100% of the freehold but the flat owner was your tenant, you might have better control over these shared services but you would still have to inform the flat owner of any major work, pay for it yourself then collect his share.
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 13th Feb 18, 8:46 AM
    • 2,494 Posts
    • 2,412 Thanks
    steampowered
    You don't have any comeback against the estate agent or the seller. So your options are as explained by G_M.
    • diane***
    • By diane*** 13th Feb 18, 11:31 AM
    • 52 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    diane***
    we had a similar experience ............. it sad for you and you will lose your money, but walk..... you'll have all sorts of rights of access and that sort of thing to sort out too.............. all possible but this is not what you want is it? no freehold or walk..... think of the value when you come to sell..... is this an investment or nightmare?
    • jbainbridge
    • By jbainbridge 13th Feb 18, 12:09 PM
    • 1,776 Posts
    • 1,151 Thanks
    jbainbridge
    I'm still not clear what you actually want to or thought you were buying. Is it the house with the flat? Or just the house and the flat is to be sold to someone else?

    If it is just the house and not the flat, you would buy a lease for the house and possibly a share of freehold.

    Otherwise it sounds very messy and I would just be walking away.
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 13th Feb 18, 12:31 PM
    • 6,326 Posts
    • 6,184 Thanks
    eddddy
    I'm still not clear what you actually want to or thought you were buying.
    Originally posted by jbainbridge
    I suspect that the OP may be reacting to news stories that sound like they're saying "Leasehold is bad - Freehold is good".

    As many posters have pointed out, that doesn't really apply in this case.

    As you suggest, it's difficult to offer any helpful feedback to the OP, unless he can be more specific about what his precise concerns are.
    • cjmillsnun
    • By cjmillsnun 13th Feb 18, 12:49 PM
    • 600 Posts
    • 732 Thanks
    cjmillsnun
    Time to quote Nancy Sinatra. These boots are made for walking
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