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  • FIRST POST
    • freeman3030
    • By freeman3030 12th Feb 18, 7:23 PM
    • 196Posts
    • 91Thanks
    freeman3030
    Rules of the road
    • #1
    • 12th Feb 18, 7:23 PM
    Rules of the road 12th Feb 18 at 7:23 PM
    Hi,
    On my way home tonight, I felt as if I had done something wrong so would like to get another opinion.
    I'm sat queuing at a set of traffic lights at a 3 way junction. I'm in the left lane and van driver is in the right lane. When going through the traffic lights the road remains 2 lanes and approaches another set of traffic lights about 100m further down the road.
    Once you pass the first set and approach the 2nd set, the left lane is used for left turn and straight ahead and the right lane is for right turn only.
    The first set of lights turn green so both lanes start to pull away and said van driver then decides to indicate to come into my lane (he probably knew before the first set of lights that he was going to need to be in the left lane, but does it to get ahead).
    Anyway there is about a 4 to 5 meter gap between me and the car in front of me that he's attempting to get into. He indicates and starts to veer into my lane so I sound my horn for about 2 seconds to alert him of my presence.
    I am correct in thinking that it is my right of way as I'm currently in the lane and hes trying to cut me up?
    I'm annoyed because when I sounded my horn, he brakes quite sharply (probably because he didn't even look in the near side mirror) and when I'm along side him, he sticks his middle finger up at me. He then pulls in behind me and flashes his lights a few time. A mile down the road, I need to turn left and he proceeds to beep his horn at me again as he passes me. Obviously he's angry, but am I in the wrong for not braking and letting him into my lane? I mean, the courteous thing would have been for me to slow down and allow him in ahead of me. But how is that fair?
    If I'm wrong, I'm glad I asked because I've learned something, but at the same time I'm annoyed he beeped at me because I didn't let him cut me up.
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    *My partner: 200/2,000
Page 2
    • n217970
    • By n217970 13th Feb 18, 12:26 PM
    • 308 Posts
    • 259 Thanks
    n217970
    Once upon a time, after a minute or so of waiting at a T junction to turn left into standing/crawling traffic I made the decision to "force" my way in. A Landrover Defender was so determined that I was not to get in they actually drove straight into the back of the car in front of them. Hilarious (for me at least).
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 13th Feb 18, 12:42 PM
    • 1,675 Posts
    • 2,199 Thanks
    Aylesbury Duck
    Once upon a time, after a minute or so of waiting at a T junction to turn left into standing/crawling traffic I made the decision to "force" my way in. A Landrover Defender was so determined that I was not to get in they actually drove straight into the back of the car in front of them. Hilarious (for me at least).
    Originally posted by n217970
    With a name like that, they felt obliged to.
    • SuzieSue
    • By SuzieSue 13th Feb 18, 12:51 PM
    • 3,817 Posts
    • 4,040 Thanks
    SuzieSue
    with the risk of weeks or even months of hassle and expense.
    Originally posted by Aylesbury Duck
    Make that years when you take account of your increased premiums.
    • mark1959
    • By mark1959 13th Feb 18, 7:26 PM
    • 297 Posts
    • 337 Thanks
    mark1959
    What colour was the van?
    • aggi
    • By aggi 13th Feb 18, 8:15 PM
    • 109 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    aggi
    judging by driving probably this
    • Samsung_Note2
    • By Samsung_Note2 13th Feb 18, 9:21 PM
    • 383 Posts
    • 158 Thanks
    Samsung_Note2
    As a man with a mean stare once said ""Do you feel lucky punk"".

    You might have felt justified in giving van man a beep of your horn...Van man might have felt justified slamming into you and stabbing you to death.

    Yes its unlikely but scary thing is,it does happen...or you have someone pull up behind you when arriving home.

    Road rage can come out of now where,so maybe in future be the bigger man and flash him him and give hima friendly wave.
    If my appalling spelling offends you that much...dont read my posts.
    • Deastons
    • By Deastons 14th Feb 18, 8:15 AM
    • 178 Posts
    • 99 Thanks
    Deastons
    !!!8217;can!!!8217;t beat them, join them!!!8217;
    Originally posted by aggi
    I'm surprised you remember all that!

    I sometimes drive a car and sometimes a van, and I would argue I drive the same in both.

    I'm amazed in the difference in other people's driving around me. I'm overtaken much more when in the van, and people are quick to pull out in front of me. I guess the perception is that vans are slower and van drivers don't deserve being polite to.

    The OP should have just let the driver in. Even the phrase "starts to veer into my lane" suggests the OP sees the road ahead as theirs, and they'll decide whether or not someone else is allowed to use it.
    Last edited by Deastons; 14-02-2018 at 8:19 AM.
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 14th Feb 18, 8:55 AM
    • 1,714 Posts
    • 8,397 Thanks
    NBLondon
    the phrase "starts to veer into my lane" suggests the OP sees the road ahead as theirs,
    Originally posted by Deastons
    or possibly it's just a short-hand phrase for "the lane I am currently travelling in". What we can't tell without being there is whether there was a suitable gap for the van to move into or not and hence whether the OP was being impeded. There seem to be plenty of people (in all forms of transport) who have forgotten what Mirror, Signal, Manoeuvre actually means and assume that all three can take place simultaneously and that the blinking light means "I am going there NOW so watch out" rather than "I intend to move/turn to the left/right".

    As for perception of vans... You're probably right - many people just see a box that is blocking their way/view and want to get away from it. Plus stereotyping... a minority of van drivers behave like anal sphincters so others assume the majority will do the same.
    Womble #7 - Running Total 9.56 $1.99 3.35 S//0.10 (that's supposed to be 10 Ukrainian kopiyki but the site is refusing to display the symbol) Bds$0.10 A$0.05 C$0.88 S$0.20 zl0.02 (Polish grosze) LB0.22 (Bulgarian stotinka) ISKr 5 DKr 0.50 CHF 0.50
    • waamo
    • By waamo 14th Feb 18, 9:03 AM
    • 2,990 Posts
    • 3,853 Thanks
    waamo
    This sounds like a typical road rage incident.
    This space for hire.
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 14th Feb 18, 9:05 AM
    • 1,462 Posts
    • 1,079 Thanks
    IanMSpencer
    The other thing car drivers need to remember is that like lorries, vans are a nightmare to see backwards out of, van drivers do need to rely on cooperation at times.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 14th Feb 18, 9:23 AM
    • 2,840 Posts
    • 1,799 Thanks
    Car 54
    There seem to be plenty of people (in all forms of transport) who have forgotten what Mirror, Signal, Manoeuvre actually means
    Originally posted by NBLondon
    Including yourself, it seems. It's MirrorS, plural.
    • bugslet
    • By bugslet 14th Feb 18, 10:12 AM
    • 6,095 Posts
    • 29,439 Thanks
    bugslet
    But how is that fair?
    .
    Originally posted by freeman3030
    Could be a forensic examination of how long his indicator was on, how much space precisely there was between you and the front car and was his a SWB van or an extra long, was he lost, were you being aggressive,w as he...and on and on. But the short answer is - life isn't fair and that really isn't worth getting wound up about.


    I sometimes drive a car and sometimes a van, and I would argue I drive the same in both.

    I'm amazed in the difference in other people's driving around me. I'm overtaken much more when in the van, and people are quick to pull out in front of me. I guess the perception is that vans are slower and van drivers don't deserve being polite to.
    .
    Originally posted by Deastons
    Absolutely spot on. I only drive a small Combo van now, but at one point I had a VX220 and Renault Master van. People would almost leap out of the way if the VX came up behind them, in a van they would speed up, then 'forget' they 'wanted' to do that speed, slow down, etc, etc. It used to just make me laugh. But generally, less courteous, more aggressive towards me when I was driving a van.
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 14th Feb 18, 11:10 AM
    • 1,714 Posts
    • 8,397 Thanks
    NBLondon
    Including yourself, it seems. It's MirrorS, plural.
    Originally posted by Car 54
    Not when I learnt it - and such irrelevant parties as the RAC and IAM still use it in the singular.

    Pedantry aside - Mirror(s), Signal, Mirror Again, Manoeuvre is even better....
    Womble #7 - Running Total 9.56 $1.99 3.35 S//0.10 (that's supposed to be 10 Ukrainian kopiyki but the site is refusing to display the symbol) Bds$0.10 A$0.05 C$0.88 S$0.20 zl0.02 (Polish grosze) LB0.22 (Bulgarian stotinka) ISKr 5 DKr 0.50 CHF 0.50
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 14th Feb 18, 11:13 AM
    • 1,462 Posts
    • 1,079 Thanks
    IanMSpencer
    I sometimes drive a car and sometimes a van, and I would argue I drive the same in both.
    Originally posted by Deastons
    I'd argue that I drive very differently in a van - there are mega-blind spots and you have to do strange things at angled junctions, like taking the left turn at a triangular island to turn right as going right means you are trying to look through two sheets of metal. Vans trail more around corners and an unloaded van has much poorer roadholding (and a loaded van has much poorer stopping distance).

    And, as has been said, people react differently to vans. Van drivers tend to be more cooperative aside from the absolute nutters who think that as they are working they have additional road rights over anyone else, including the law.
    • bugslet
    • By bugslet 14th Feb 18, 11:40 AM
    • 6,095 Posts
    • 29,439 Thanks
    bugslet

    And, as has been said, people react differently to vans. Van drivers tend to be more cooperative aside from the absolute nutters who think that as they are working they have additional road rights over anyone else, including the law.
    Originally posted by IanMSpencer
    Just observation built over years of driving, that there's a big difference between people who driver vans all day, particularly long distance drivers, and tradespeople, for whom a van is there just to carry their work tools. I find the former are generally better drivers than tradespeople. I did say generally!
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 14th Feb 18, 11:50 AM
    • 1,462 Posts
    • 1,079 Thanks
    IanMSpencer
    I find the former are generally better drivers than tradespeople. I did say generally!
    Originally posted by bugslet
    Ah, the builders' mobile phone exemption for example?
    • Robisere
    • By Robisere 14th Feb 18, 12:45 PM
    • 2,175 Posts
    • 3,005 Thanks
    Robisere
    Reminds me of the large, overweight driver who tried to overtake me, uphill, in lane marked for turning into a RH junction. There was a sharp LH bend directly in front, followed immediately by a LH junction. Heavy traffic uses this single carriageway 'A' road, which is a bypass. I knew there was sure to be oncoming traffic, so forced him to pull in. He pulled in behind and overtook me later on the straight, shaking his fist and pointing to a layby, obviously wanting to settle what he saw as a grievance with fisticuffs. I gave him a thumbs up of agreement and he pulled into the layby. The following traffic prevented him escaping as I accelerated on, taking one of 4 exits from the roundabout further around another bend and going home. What an idiot, why do people get themselves into such an aggressive state on the roads?

    OP, try not to let things like this affect you. Life is too short and hearts can wear out eventually, hopefully only after a long and happy life. Getting angry about another person's perceived encroachment on your space, can only hurry that wear along. Learn to meditate!
    I think this job really needs
    a much bigger hammer.
    • Tarambor
    • By Tarambor 14th Feb 18, 3:00 PM
    • 2,682 Posts
    • 1,927 Thanks
    Tarambor
    Anyway there is about a 4 to 5 meter gap between me and the car in front of me that he's attempting to get into. He indicates and starts to veer into my lane so I sound my horn for about 2 seconds to alert him of my presence.
    I am correct in thinking that it is my right of way as I'm currently in the lane and hes trying to cut me up?
    Originally posted by freeman3030
    No.

    Highway Code Rule 168:

    If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass.

    I'm annoyed because when I sounded my horn, he brakes quite sharply (probably because he didn't even look in the near side mirror) and when I'm along side him, he sticks his middle finger up at me. He then pulls in behind me and flashes his lights a few time. A mile down the road, I need to turn left and he proceeds to beep his horn at me again as he passes me. Obviously he's angry, but am I in the wrong for not braking and letting him into my lane?
    Yes. See above.
    I mean, the courteous thing would have been for me to slow down and allow him in ahead of me. But how is that fair?
    Oh jesus. PLEASE HAND BACK YOUR LICENSE NOW. Good driving is nothing to do with being fair, IT IS TO DO WITH BEING SAFE. I drive a lorry, if I took your attitude there'd be wrecks of cars strewn all down the M1, the M6 and M62. There are many times where because of the usual "must get in front of the lorry at any cost" I have to give way even if I have the right of way because if I don't then said moron is likely to end up in hospital.
    • ---lee---
    • By ---lee--- 15th Feb 18, 9:58 AM
    • 893 Posts
    • 363 Thanks
    ---lee---
    A little patience goes a long way. The assumption that all drivers know the road ahead is flawed.

    A couple of days ago I took my land rover into town to drop my daughter off. I was committed to a small two way road in queuing traffic when I noticed the height restriction for the car park was too low for my vehicle.

    Fortunately there was an entrance to a park of something to the left. Not a through road but somewhere I could manouver. So as the traffic crawled past it, I switched on my reversing lights to stop the car behind, indicated right and turned into the opposite lane, which had no traffic in it). This gave me enough room to reverse back into the space I mentioned. As I have hardtop, I then had my first view of the driver behind me when I raised my hand to thank him for waiting and leaving the space I needed. He was literally jumping up and down in his seat foaming and making hand gestures.

    My entire manouver had taken less than a minute and there were still 3 cars in front waiting to get their tickets, so I had not even delayed him. I shrugged and pointed at the barrier making a gesture that it was too small and I was too big but he continued to rage.
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 15th Feb 18, 3:50 PM
    • 1,462 Posts
    • 1,079 Thanks
    IanMSpencer
    My entire manouver had taken less than a minute and there were still 3 cars in front waiting to get their tickets, so I had not even delayed him.
    Originally posted by ---lee---
    As a cyclist, I am all too familiar with the illusion of delay driving people insane. It is very rare that a cyclist will actually increase someone's journey time - there is always a lorry or car ahead that will genuinely delay someone but many motorists clearly believe that the few moments delay to pass a cyclist will bring their life to an end.

    I do enjoy looming in the mirrors of such people, shooing them out of my way when they've sat on their horn or flicked the Vs.
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