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  • FIRST POST
    • Lauraw1234
    • By Lauraw1234 12th Feb 18, 1:14 PM
    • 10Posts
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    Lauraw1234
    Termination of Employment and holiday entitlement
    • #1
    • 12th Feb 18, 1:14 PM
    Termination of Employment and holiday entitlement 12th Feb 18 at 1:14 PM
    Hi,

    Two questions that Iím struggling to find any answers to and am hoping for some help.

    Firstly, I am due to leave my job and as such I am due holidays. I followed correct procedures and organised my holidays for the final three days of employment. I have been told they have been denied for no reason and that instead my holidays will be paid. Are employers able to force you to take your holidays paid despite theirs being suitable time to take them?

    Secondly, if I did get paid my extra holidays, it would push me over the student loan threshold and I have calculated my that for this month I would be paying an extra £110 in student loans, tax and national insurance combined (basically I will be loosing 1 day of holiday pay as Iíve been forced to have them paid) Should I be paying this since itís not my choice to take the holidays as extra and under normal monthly circumstances I would not be paying a student loan or this much tax?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Page 1
    • Diamandis
    • By Diamandis 12th Feb 18, 1:17 PM
    • 264 Posts
    • 427 Thanks
    Diamandis
    • #2
    • 12th Feb 18, 1:17 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Feb 18, 1:17 PM
    If you're choosing to leave then they don't have to give you holidays before you leave.

    You would have to pay whatever is due based on your final salary payment.
    • Lauraw1234
    • By Lauraw1234 12th Feb 18, 1:20 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Lauraw1234
    • #3
    • 12th Feb 18, 1:20 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Feb 18, 1:20 PM
    Hi,

    Can you please link me to something which backs your statement up because as far as Iím aware all holiday procedures legally and in-house are not thrown out the window when you decide to leave.

    I am aware the gov websites states employers are allowed to pay you leave if requested but nothing states they can force you to take it paid.
    • WestonDave
    • By WestonDave 12th Feb 18, 1:22 PM
    • 5,037 Posts
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    WestonDave
    • #4
    • 12th Feb 18, 1:22 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Feb 18, 1:22 PM
    In general, employers have the ability to choose whether or not to permit holiday at any given time. Its fairly usual for it not to be granted on departure, because it shortens your notice period, and leaves a bigger gap before a replacement starts (assuming you and your replacement are both on the same sort of notice period but they only start applying etc once you've handed your notice in). That would be considered a reasonable ground for denying holiday even if all normal procedures had been followed.
    Adventure before Dementia!
    • Lauraw1234
    • By Lauraw1234 12th Feb 18, 1:25 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Lauraw1234
    • #5
    • 12th Feb 18, 1:25 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Feb 18, 1:25 PM
    Hi,

    Unfortunately my replacement already works at the Company and the reason for rejection was to cover staff that I would never cover (it is actually written into my contract and the company handbook that I can have leave at the same time as the employee in question).
    • Diamandis
    • By Diamandis 12th Feb 18, 1:27 PM
    • 264 Posts
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    Diamandis
    • #6
    • 12th Feb 18, 1:27 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Feb 18, 1:27 PM
    Hi,

    Can you please link me to something which backs your statement up because as far as Iím aware all holiday procedures legally and in-house are not thrown out the window when you decide to leave.
    Originally posted by Lauraw1234
    This doesn't break any laws regarding holidays so do your company procedures allow you to take holidays whenever you dictate usually?
    • Lauraw1234
    • By Lauraw1234 12th Feb 18, 1:31 PM
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    Lauraw1234
    • #7
    • 12th Feb 18, 1:31 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Feb 18, 1:31 PM
    Our policy and contracts state that we reserve holidays for public bank holidays and Christmas shutdown, otherwise no employee is take leave at the same time as another employee in the same department. My holiday was rejected as it clashes with anotherís in a different department which according to our contract and policy is not a valid reason for rejection.

    At a bit of a loss here!
    • Diamandis
    • By Diamandis 12th Feb 18, 1:35 PM
    • 264 Posts
    • 427 Thanks
    Diamandis
    • #8
    • 12th Feb 18, 1:35 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Feb 18, 1:35 PM
    You could submit a grievance on the basis of their own rules but it might not be the best way to part with the company.
    • WestonDave
    • By WestonDave 12th Feb 18, 1:40 PM
    • 5,037 Posts
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    WestonDave
    • #9
    • 12th Feb 18, 1:40 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Feb 18, 1:40 PM
    Our policy and contracts state that we reserve holidays for public bank holidays and Christmas shutdown, otherwise no employee is take leave at the same time as another employee in the same department. My holiday was rejected as it clashes with anotherís in a different department which according to our contract and policy is not a valid reason for rejection.

    At a bit of a loss here!
    Originally posted by Lauraw1234

    The fact that your employment contract etc states that you definitely won't ever be allowed holiday at the same time as another employee in the same department, is not limiting the employer to that being the only reason why they will deny holiday.
    Adventure before Dementia!
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 12th Feb 18, 1:44 PM
    • 2,671 Posts
    • 3,832 Thanks
    ReadingTim
    Firstly, I'd try and explain the point about the student loan threshold and see if they would reconsider. You could also note that the staff cover point seems not to be applicable.

    Alternatively, it's possible that they have a bee in their bonnets about using holiday to bring forward a leave date - in which case why don't you take 3 random days before you leave - say a couple of long weekends?
    • Lauraw1234
    • By Lauraw1234 12th Feb 18, 1:53 PM
    • 10 Posts
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    Lauraw1234
    I agree however in this case, this is the reason they have given
    • WestonDave
    • By WestonDave 12th Feb 18, 2:01 PM
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    WestonDave
    Trying to book it at another point might be worth a try - if it gets refused again, then it becomes obvious they're being funny about it, because it then wouldn't be about stopping you shortening your notice or be in the usual pattern of refusal, so it would then be much easier to put in a complaint saying that you've tried to be flexible but you really want to take the holiday in order to avoid getting stung for student loan contributions.
    Adventure before Dementia!
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 12th Feb 18, 2:02 PM
    • 5,156 Posts
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    spadoosh
    You can reclaim student loan overpayments. Pretty good timing as well with year end approaching you should get it back soon enough.

    Most contractual terms relating to holidays will usually state something along the lines of 'within business needs'. From my point of view it wouldnt be worth arguing for the sake of £110 missing for a few months.

    Id be worried the more 'trouble' i caused the more the chances of a 'mistake' being made with my pay.
    Don't be angry!
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 12th Feb 18, 2:20 PM
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    getmore4less
    You won't find anything in statutory law to help, this is covered by WTR

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1833/contents/made

    The only part that could help is the notice to refuse holidays(15.4.b as much as the holiday requested).

    BUT even if they failed that notice period it can be overridden by contract and a clause like "holiday must be approved" or similar means they can ignore the clause completely.
    Last edited by getmore4less; 12-02-2018 at 2:25 PM.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 12th Feb 18, 2:25 PM
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    getmore4less
    standard extra cost for more money would be 20% tax and 12% NI,

    The tax is just the result of earning more so that can be ignored as it gets refunded if you don't hit the threshold in the year.

    The NI is bit of a pain if you don't normally earn to the threshold.

    Student load is debt reduction.

    if the tax and NI is bothering you now wait till you get a decent paying job and 32% of the extra wage is going out all the time.
    • Lauraw1234
    • By Lauraw1234 12th Feb 18, 2:30 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Lauraw1234
    Iím not sure that comment was necessary - what might not bother you, may bother somebody else in a different financial situation. Aside from this, Iím sure anybody that is paying unnecessary extra tax would complain.
    • Lauraw1234
    • By Lauraw1234 12th Feb 18, 2:31 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Lauraw1234
    Thanks! I will take a look at this
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 12th Feb 18, 2:35 PM
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    getmore4less
    You only pay extra tax if you earn more.

    Not taking the 3 days extra pay is like turning down a 15% pay rise in Feb or a 13.6% rise for march.
    • Lauraw1234
    • By Lauraw1234 12th Feb 18, 2:39 PM
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    Lauraw1234
    But Iíd rather take three days holidays that Iíve earned than get paid extra for two days
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 12th Feb 18, 2:59 PM
    • 5,156 Posts
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    spadoosh
    But I!!!8217;d rather take three days holidays that I!!!8217;ve earned than get paid extra for two days
    Originally posted by Lauraw1234
    Can you use the quote button please, its difficult to know what posts your responses are in relation to.

    Why would you be given 3 days holiday but only paid 2 extra days if you didnt take them?

    Its unlikely youll force them to agree. You could try showing laws or contracts but if theyve decided you wont be getting those days off and youll be getting paid for any untaken holidays then thats probably whats going to happen.

    In reality what difference do those 3 days make? You can reclaim the student loan deductions, tax will work itself out too, NI would be lost but not going to be a huge amount. So is the £110, going to make a huge difference to your finances to such an extent that it warrants highlighting your grievances which could potentially compound the issue.

    Its also worth remembering that an employee rarely has access to the same information as the employer/manager when making a decision. So what appears obvious to an employee (i can have time off no one else on my department is off) is less obvious to the manager (dave from finance got his paternity leave in 3 weeks, caroles just given me 4 week sick note on top off the new book keepers holidays, and to top it off lauraw1234 having handed in her notice last week now wants 3 days holiday in that week knowing full well we ask for 4 weeks notice when booking holidays.)
    Don't be angry!
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