Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • diane***
    • By diane*** 11th Feb 18, 8:25 PM
    • 51Posts
    • 9Thanks
    diane***
    renting and deposits
    • #1
    • 11th Feb 18, 8:25 PM
    renting and deposits 11th Feb 18 at 8:25 PM
    my son rented with 6 others ...strangers at first.
    the landlord made them jointly responsible for the house with regards their deposit.
    Some renter went some new came over the 2 years, my son was lead tenant.
    one renter lost his job, took to drug/drink and theft from other tenants, noise parties all hours.
    complaints to the landlord were made.
    the landlord could do nothing as long as he paid his rent.
    it deteriorated
    The landlord said he would not be renewing the tenancy to all in February.
    December my son moved out still having to pay rent until February 2018 remaining lead.
    The drunken renter has not paid February's rent saying the landlord cannot make him homeless, he is very abusive, all other tenants have moved having to pay 2 rents and deposits and have suffered abuse from the drunk.
    Will my son and the others be entitled to get their deposit back?
    they left the house in good condition.
    Can the landlord hold their deposits because this drunk is now refusing to pay rent?
    the drunk is still their not paying rent , he has now been reported to the police.
    it seems in law the abusive thieving drunk has all the rights as long as he paid rent no matter how difficult he was to live with.
    all I want to know is will the other young people be entitled to their deposits over 5000
Page 2
    • wesleyad
    • By wesleyad 14th Feb 18, 10:58 AM
    • 186 Posts
    • 132 Thanks
    wesleyad
    If you get lucky the LL may also not realise that a joint and several tenancy means he can pursue everyone for all of the rent. I have rented under such an agreement and the LL just assumed he could pursue the one tenant who was in arrears. So fingers crossed he will allow the rest to leave and will go to court to evict the last tenant.

    At the end of the day the one positive to take is your son will not make this mistake again when signing any contract, be it another letting agreement, mortgage, loan etc. It's a good lesson to learn early in life.
    • diane***
    • By diane*** 14th Feb 18, 11:06 AM
    • 51 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    diane***
    the future


    courts, police, lawyers, courts ...........stress , mental health ,months of upset .


    they are working hard paying up student loans earning money only to pay for the drugged up violent abusive drunk and his selfishness.


    wouldn't you have a violent thought as a helpless parent? this will cost in hundreds........ but the law supports the drunk drugged up violent thief ............


    the police cautioned him..... he was told he isn't allowed to upset others ..... well that would have had an impact i'm sure........... what else could they do in reality?


    only time will sort this out and that time will cost the innocent , the criminal will walk away with help from every social service out there, the working kids trying to get on will be left hundreds of pound down and unsupported .
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 14th Feb 18, 11:08 AM
    • 11,928 Posts
    • 16,795 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    If I were one of the tenants who had moved out I would just stop paying the rent. 1) The remaining tenant isn't passing it on to the landlord anyway. 2) If the rent was paid direct to the landlord the landlord isn't going to do anything whilst he continues to get the money.

    Sure, this course of action may eventually end up in small claims court but it's probably heading that way anyway so I would force the landlord's hand.
    • diane***
    • By diane*** 14th Feb 18, 11:11 AM
    • 51 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    diane***
    I hope you are right weslyad,


    it would be fair to return the deposits of the others who have all moved promptly and done as asked but it's money and can you see a greedy landlord not taking .


    pixie, i think you are right, not paying for a place you have been asked to leave would seem reasonable, it seems the law is about that contract.
    citizens advice will send them on the right track i hope.


    the landlord is free to get other tenants in the empty rooms now.
    Last edited by diane***; 14-02-2018 at 11:16 AM.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 14th Feb 18, 11:16 AM
    • 2,970 Posts
    • 2,935 Thanks
    Comms69
    the future


    courts, police, lawyers, courts ...........stress , mental health ,months of upset . - Not necessarily, are the police taking action? If not then no need for any of that


    they are working hard paying up student loans earning money only to pay for the drugged up violent abusive drunk and his selfishness.


    wouldn't you have a violent thought as a helpless parent? this will cost in hundreds........ but the law supports the drunk drugged up violent thief ............ - no the law supports the Landlord and the tenant. they can all take the drugged up tenant to court for his share, but blood out of a stone comes to mind


    the police cautioned him..... cautioned or warned? he was told he isn't allowed to upset others ..... well that would have had an impact i'm sure........... what else could they do in reality? - well they either pass the file onto prosecution or take No Further Action


    only time will sort this out and that time will cost the innocent , the criminal will walk away with help from every social service out there, the working kids trying to get on will be left hundreds of pound down and unsupported .
    Originally posted by diane***
    They could get him a CCJ - that will mess up his life for 6 years
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 14th Feb 18, 11:21 AM
    • 1,207 Posts
    • 838 Thanks
    saajan_12
    it would be fair to return the deposits of the others who have all moved promptly and done as asked but it's money and can you see a greedy landlord not taking .
    Originally posted by diane***
    No it wouldn't, the tenants are one unit. If they haven't ALL vacated, then the LL cannot relet the property, and thus collect full rent from new tenants, hence the current tenants SHOULD be liable for the full rent. This LL should deduct this from the deposit sue for the rest in court.

    Just as it isn't sufficient to move your self out without moving your property out, it also isnt' sufficient to move one person out but leave another cotenant in the property. Your son agreed to be responsible for his cotenants.

    Not sure why you want to go to CAB, they won't say any differently than the unanimous answer you've gotten here, but feel free if it reassures you. But OP, stop moaning about the unfairness of the contract your son signed, and get on with advising him to encourage the co tenant to move out, or make use of his room some other way. He shouldn't have committed himself to another tenancy while still on the hook for this one if he couldn't afford both.
    • pramsay13
    • By pramsay13 14th Feb 18, 11:37 AM
    • 352 Posts
    • 790 Thanks
    pramsay13
    It's an interesting situation.
    It's not unusual for a landlord to offer a house to rent where all tenants are individually liable, although in my experience it would be a group of friends looking to rent together.
    The law is very much on the side of the tenants, and if they had decided as a group to dig their heels in and not move out they would have been able to stay there just paying one set of rent until evicted.
    Unfortunately they are obviously a separate group and have acted independently with most moving out and one deciding to stay.
    Assuming they can't persuade the individual tenant to leave the landlord will probably start eviction proceedings. He will almost certainly apply to use the deposit to cover any rent outstanding and then look to recoup any outstanding balance from one or more of the tenants.
    There would be nothing stopping the other tenants issuing proceedings against the one tenant if they lose our due to his actions, although not sure how realistic that would be.
    • Soundgirlrocks
    • By Soundgirlrocks 14th Feb 18, 12:53 PM
    • 467 Posts
    • 685 Thanks
    Soundgirlrocks
    my son rented with 6 others ...strangers at first.
    the landlord made them jointly responsible for the house with regards their deposit.
    Some renter went some new came over the 2 years, my son was lead tenant.
    one renter lost his job, took to drug/drink and theft from other tenants, noise parties all hours.
    complaints to the landlord were made.
    the landlord could do nothing as long as he paid his rent.

    it deteriorated
    The landlord said he would not be renewing the tenancy to all in February.
    Originally posted by diane***
    Was the difficult tenant on the original tenancy? If not did your son sign a new tenancy with this individual on it? It sounds to me like the landlord as got into a mess issuing one tenancy at the beginning and then as the tenants changed issuing new ones without actually terminating the first. Each tenant should have had their own tenancy

    Also sounds like the house was a HMO, was the landlord compliant with the relevant regulations? (there are variations depending on the council) Was your sons deposit protected?

    All in its a mess, if I were your son I would stop paying the landlord sound a bit clueless, I very much doubt he would be able to provide the relevant evidence should he try and take your son to court.
    • Neil Br
    • By Neil Br 14th Feb 18, 2:23 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Neil Br
    I know the landlord can't throw him out and change the locks, but what if the other tenants did ?
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 14th Feb 18, 2:24 PM
    • 2,970 Posts
    • 2,935 Thanks
    Comms69
    I know the landlord can't throw him out and change the locks, but what if the other tenants did ?
    Originally posted by Neil Br
    They would be guilty of assault and illegal eviction?
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 14th Feb 18, 2:39 PM
    • 2,908 Posts
    • 5,908 Thanks
    Smodlet
    Sorry, diane***, but whining,"It's not fair, it's harsh" etc. is utterly pointless, as has been illustrated ad infinitum already. Your son signed a contract. The whole point of contracts is to be legally binding. If you don't like what's in a contract, don't sign it and walk away.

    If you make a mistake like this, the only positive you can really take out of it is to learn from it. Your son had the choice to rent somewhere else where he had an individual, rather than a shared, tenancy. We can all be clever with hindsight.

    Seems to me the only control you have over this situation is how much you allow it to stress you out. You can choose to deal and move on or wallow in it and prolong the pain: The end result will be exactly the same but for the toll it has taken on you. I speak from experience.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • diane***
    • By diane*** 14th Feb 18, 3:29 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    diane***
    when the landlord issued the end of contract he did it because there was no other way in law to get the drug user out.
    every other tenant obeyed the rules.


    seems that the landlord was wrong, every reasonable tenant left. the abuser remains.


    why can't the landlord advertise the other rooms? granted some people wouldn't rent but some could be suckered into it . As you say it's buyer beware.

    now you're saying they should have remained living with the abuser?


    would you stay with your abuser? yes he was reported to the police and remained in the house with his victims....continuing stealing their food and throwing their stuff out into the road as he liked.
    Last edited by diane***; 14-02-2018 at 3:33 PM.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 14th Feb 18, 3:30 PM
    • 2,970 Posts
    • 2,935 Thanks
    Comms69
    when the landlord issued the end of contract he did it because there was no other way in law to get the drug user out.
    every other tenant obeyed the rules.


    now you're saying they should have remained living with the abuser?


    would you stay with your abuser? yes he was reported to the police and remained in the house with his victims.
    Originally posted by diane***


    A s.21 notice does not end a tenancy.


    He's not an abuser, being abusive is not the same thing!


    You haven't answered what action the police actually took...
    • diane***
    • By diane*** 14th Feb 18, 3:40 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    diane***
    someone who repeats an action he has been asked to stop for the pure pleasure of causing some one else harm is an abuser.
    would you live with it? could you live with it? it's your home , where you go to be safe.


    I thought CAB because the guidance they will give will be unemotional and clear, it look as if this is a court matter and if you have never been having some person to person advice will be reassuring.


    each individual is coping alone , they have all gone separate ways, some will need reassurance and help more than others.


    oh police.....none he still there, I don't actually know if they did anything but have a chat/warning. My son has an email from him admitting he took from the other tenants, but he was in need! my son has not given this to the police only the landlord.


    the only thing to do is for me to advise my son to go to CAB, he is not near me, I will tell him that he is half way down on a short rope and i'll help him, lets hope the others have resources.
    Last edited by diane***; 14-02-2018 at 3:50 PM.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 14th Feb 18, 4:07 PM
    • 2,970 Posts
    • 2,935 Thanks
    Comms69
    someone who repeats an action he has been asked to stop for the pure pleasure of causing some one else harm is an abuser.
    would you live with it? could you live with it? it's your home , where you go to be safe. - yes I'd be fine. But then I'm capable of controlling my emotions and not letting a bad housemate drag me down.


    I thought CAB because the guidance they will give will be unemotional and clear, it look as if this is a court matter and if you have never been having some person to person advice will be reassuring. - CAB wont be there in court to help though.


    each individual is coping alone , they have all gone separate ways, some will need reassurance and help more than others.


    none he still there, I don't actually know if they did anything but have a chat.


    the only thing to do is for me to advise my son to go to CAB, he is not near me, I will tell him that he is half way down on a short rope and i'll help him, lets hope the others have resources.
    Originally posted by diane***
    Or direct him to this thread?
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 14th Feb 18, 4:12 PM
    • 2,908 Posts
    • 5,908 Thanks
    Smodlet
    each individual is coping alone , they have all gone separate ways, some will need reassurance and help more than others.

    the only thing to do is for me to advise my son to go to CAB, he is not near me, I will tell him that he is half way down on a short rope and i'll help him, lets hope the others have resources.
    Originally posted by diane***

    If they were old enough to sign a tenancy agreement, they are old enough to live in the world as it really is.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 14th Feb 18, 4:33 PM
    • 1,207 Posts
    • 838 Thanks
    saajan_12
    when the landlord issued the end of contract he did it because there was no other way in law to get the drug user out. - ofcourse, the LL has to serve notice and go through court to evict a lawful tenant.
    every other tenant obeyed the rules. - good, no prizes for that.

    seems that the landlord was wrong, every reasonable tenant left. the abuser remains. - the notice doesn't end a tenancy, it's NOT reasonable to expect to not pay rent when the tenancy has not ended and vacant possession hasn't been given of the whole property. The 'abuser' remains per his right. Its all tenants' responsibility to ensure the property is fully vacated and tenancy ended or continue paying rent. Your son has failed in this responsibility.


    why can't the landlord advertise the other rooms? granted some people wouldn't rent but some could be suckered into it . As you say it's buyer beware. What don't you get about having a tenancy for the WHOLE PROPERTY? The LL cannot enter let alone use the property as his own / for other tenants because son and his housemates have a LEGAL TENANCY FOR THE WHOLE PROPERTY. If the LL used the property, that would be illegal eviction.

    now you're saying they should have remained living with the abuser?


    would you stay with your abuser? yes he was reported to the police and remained in the house with his victims....continuing stealing their food and throwing their stuff out into the road as he liked. Yes. He can't have been that bad as the other tenants didn't take any action to get away from the 'abuser' until the LL served notice to begin the process of ending the tenancy.
    Originally posted by diane***
    Son and his housemates have a legal tenancy. They owe rent until the LATTER of
    a) date all tenants have vacated; AND
    b) date the tenancy legally ends (by court order / mutual surrender / tenant notice)

    That is the law because that is what son agreed to.
    • diane***
    • By diane*** 14th Feb 18, 7:10 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    diane***
    they thought by letting the landlord know the troubles he'd sort it out.
    seems the landlord hadn't any teeth as long as he paid the rent, the landlord advised them to go to the police. It's all he could do for them.


    we're lucky he stopped paying, I guess he couldn't afford his life style and rent with the house empty.

    well thanks for the info, I have directed my son to this site, that s21 order was served and eviction proceeding begun, so hopefully this won't run on too long for all concerned.
    seems just losing the deposit will be a good outcome.
    Last edited by diane***; 14-02-2018 at 7:12 PM.
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 14th Feb 18, 8:44 PM
    • 2,908 Posts
    • 5,908 Thanks
    Smodlet
    Landlords are just that; not Housemasters, unfortunately. If I had my way, I would make LLs legally responsible for their god-awful tenants' behaviour but that is more within the council/housing association field of renting, not the real world.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

135Posts Today

1,139Users online

Martin's Twitter