Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • AJ16
    • By AJ16 11th Feb 18, 7:43 PM
    • 98Posts
    • 37Thanks
    AJ16
    fined for stopping in loading bay
    • #1
    • 11th Feb 18, 7:43 PM
    fined for stopping in loading bay 11th Feb 18 at 7:43 PM
    On the 6th Feb I was ticketed by a local authority parking enforcement person a week ago. There are fairly new parking restrictions and I didn't realise that I was in a loading bay, I was observed for 5 minutes and got a 35 windscreen ticket. My 7 seater was parked across the road from my office, to appeal the ticket you need a delivery note, as it was my office premises I did not have one, I told them this and they have dismissed it as a reason and they now want 70. They wrote " I note from your email that you are unable to provide any form of evidence to prove that loading/unloading activities were taking place".

    There loading bay in question does not have any times on the small sign on the post, it just says loading only, no times. In their letter they refer to the government phrasing for contravention code 25 "Parked in a loading place during restricted hours without loading (non goods vehicles)" Should they be showing the loading restrictions on the sign?

    What's the best course of action now? Should I write a letter from my own company on headed paper to say that I was loading during the 5 minute period?
Page 1
    • k3lvc
    • By k3lvc 11th Feb 18, 7:45 PM
    • 2,159 Posts
    • 3,540 Thanks
    k3lvc
    • #2
    • 11th Feb 18, 7:45 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Feb 18, 7:45 PM
    What's the best course of action now? Should I write a letter from my own company on headed paper to say that I was loading during the 5 minute period?
    Originally posted by AJ16

    And perjure yourself when they dig out footage showing nothing of the sort
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 11th Feb 18, 7:49 PM
    • 8,706 Posts
    • 9,295 Thanks
    pappa golf
    • #3
    • 11th Feb 18, 7:49 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Feb 18, 7:49 PM
    did you "deliver" yourself to the office that morning?
    Save a Rachael

    buy a share in crapita
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Feb 18, 9:48 PM
    • 56,325 Posts
    • 69,940 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 11th Feb 18, 9:48 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Feb 18, 9:48 PM
    And perjure yourself when they dig out footage showing nothing of the sort
    Originally posted by k3lvc
    What footage would that be then? This is not CCTV. Councils are not allowed to use it for that.

    The OP says they were ticketed by 'a person' therefore I read this as a windscreen PCN.

    The OP does not say anywhere here that they were not loading, bringing bags or papers into the office, so why do you think they are lying? I don't.

    Did you know that CEOs must observe for a minimum of five minutes, to exclude the possibility of loading/unloading activity, but that if the driver can show that this activity was occurring then the PCN will likely be cancelled at NTO stage? Loading and unloading can reasonably take up to 20 minutes and there is no reason why a CEO would see the driver in a mere (bare minimum...typical for Councils) five minutes observation, if the premises include stairs or a lift or doors that are locked, etc.

    Most Council PCNs are issued by chancer CEOs employed by private firms, who have no real idea or care about the actual stated rules in the Traffic Order applicable to any road/bay.

    IMHO, from reports on pepipoo forum where these baseless Council PCNs are beaten almost all the time, most PCNs can be cancelled at Adjudication. If more people knew this, and didn't get swayed by the carrot of the 'discount', the entire house of cards of Council 'parking fines' would collapse.

    Should I write a letter from my own company on headed paper to say that I was loading during the 5 minute period?
    Yes, at NTO stage, when it arrives. Not in reaction to the usual rejection of first appeal.

    Wait for the NTO, assuming I am right and this was a windscreen Council PCN and you are the keeper.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 11-02-2018 at 9:53 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • AJ16
    • By AJ16 11th Feb 18, 11:50 PM
    • 98 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    AJ16
    • #5
    • 11th Feb 18, 11:50 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Feb 18, 11:50 PM
    Thanks Coupon Mad, yes it was a windscreen PCN and I am the keeper.

    Their Notice of Rejection of Representations letter says " This letter is served as a formal Notice of Rejection of your representations ", yet it also says "'without any additional evidence I cannot accept your appeal", so I'm wondering about sending a letter from the company confirming the loading activity.

    I have looked at the Contravention code 25 but it's weighty technical wording and people using high street loading bays can hardly be expected to know about it. Surely the council should be at least putting loading bay restrictions on the sign?

    After the event I found information on their website about parking, but again it should be on their signs surely?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Feb 18, 11:53 PM
    • 56,325 Posts
    • 69,940 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 11th Feb 18, 11:53 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Feb 18, 11:53 PM
    it also says "'without any additional evidence I cannot accept your appeal", so I'm wondering about sending a letter from the company confirming the loading activity.
    Yes you could do, and what would be great, is if the Council replies that they 'cannot' consider more than one appeal submission pre-NTO stage.

    You actually WANT them to say that, because it's not true, and it adds 'procedural impropriety' to your NTO appeal!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 11th Feb 18, 11:53 PM
    • 35,179 Posts
    • 19,282 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #7
    • 11th Feb 18, 11:53 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Feb 18, 11:53 PM
    Take this to pepipoo for best advice


    This forum majors on private parking invoices rather than "proper" council tickets
    • AJ16
    • By AJ16 21st Feb 18, 1:21 PM
    • 98 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    AJ16
    • #8
    • 21st Feb 18, 1:21 PM
    • #8
    • 21st Feb 18, 1:21 PM
    Ha, the council just wrote back and said that the letter is insufficient evidence for the PCN to be cancelled. It was on company headed paper and with a company director's signature.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 21st Feb 18, 3:40 PM
    • 2,315 Posts
    • 2,755 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #9
    • 21st Feb 18, 3:40 PM
    • #9
    • 21st Feb 18, 3:40 PM
    You will need to go back to pepipoo and upload a copy of their response. Your paraphrasing will not be sufficient.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 21st Feb 18, 4:40 PM
    • 9,088 Posts
    • 8,783 Thanks
    The Deep
    I believe that about 60% 9f LA PCNs are cancelled at appeal.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Feb 18, 7:29 PM
    • 56,325 Posts
    • 69,940 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes but most are turned down at first appeal, because the Council can, so this is expected.

    Then the win rate on pepipoo at NTO or Adjudication stage is well over 90% won in the end.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • AJ16
    • By AJ16 21st Feb 18, 7:33 PM
    • 98 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    AJ16
    You will need to go back to pepipoo and upload a copy of their response. Your paraphrasing will not be sufficient.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    I'm not keen on doing that as they want to see the PCN and my letter so I don't want them to go 'public' for obvious reasons.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 21st Feb 18, 7:35 PM
    • 2,315 Posts
    • 2,755 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    There!!!8217;s no !!!8220;obvious reason!!!8221;. Every single other poster is able to show documents, and they get help.

    If you want to get help, then answer the questions and show the documents. If you don!!!8217;t do that, then just pay up. It!!!8217;ll be cheaper.
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 21st Feb 18, 7:43 PM
    • 2,801 Posts
    • 4,203 Thanks
    fisherjim
    I'm not keen on doing that as they want to see the PCN and my letter so I don't want them to go 'public' for obvious reasons.
    Originally posted by AJ16
    You just redact your personal details!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Feb 18, 7:52 PM
    • 56,325 Posts
    • 69,940 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I'm not keen on doing that as they want to see the PCN and my letter so I don't want them to go 'public' for obvious reasons.
    Originally posted by AJ16
    It's how you will win.

    You just cover up the VRN and PCN number like everyone does on pepipoo, to stay anonymous.

    the council just wrote back and said that the letter is insufficient evidence for the PCN to be cancelled. It was on company headed paper and with a company director's signature.
    At first PCN appeal stage it's not even handled by most Councils, that rejection and the first one, is expected, and likely came from their contractor.

    And it shows procedural impropriety that pepipoo posters can help you with at NTO stage.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • AJ16
    • By AJ16 5th Mar 18, 10:39 AM
    • 98 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    AJ16
    UPDATE
    With the help of the Pepioo I just won my appeal, the local authority sent a DNC- "Attendant has logged the contravention under the incorrect location."
    Thanks all AJ
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 5th Mar 18, 12:18 PM
    • 2,315 Posts
    • 2,755 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Glad to hear
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

2,826Posts Today

7,896Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • After the news I'm suing facebook over scam ads, people keep sending me ads with my pic in asking, ?is THIS ad with? https://t.co/lhTmijgnWt

  • So Facebook just waxed lyrical about all the things they're doing to stop fake ads. Whoop de whoop. Yet THESE SCA? https://t.co/hP4q6kRuuQ

  • Facebook giving evidence I believe just said "mr lewis said there are 50 ads, but we checked and found 1,000s".? https://t.co/4dAe8PCTCb

  • Follow Martin