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  • FIRST POST
    • Richard E C
    • By Richard E C 11th Feb 18, 4:54 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 7Thanks
    Richard E C
    Received my Notice to Keeper :-D
    • #1
    • 11th Feb 18, 4:54 PM
    Received my Notice to Keeper :-D 11th Feb 18 at 4:54 PM
    The company is UKPC and they have done everything correctly although I think their signage is bad (see below). I wish to check my understanding of a few points. I have the money to pay the 100 but will let this to run it's course as an experiment. When it is all said and done I'll share how it went here.

    Yes I have read all the sticky's, I just want clarification on some points please.

    A) Do they have to take me to court before any one can start chasing me and showing up at my door?
    2) Because of schedule 4 of the protection of freedoms Act 2012 I will be liable for the charge when it goes of to court, does this mean they do not have to prove who was driving? (they don't know who was driving)
    3) If it goes to court and does not go my way what do you think the final bill will be?
    4) I have not appealed the ticket, is it too late? (it would have required me to say I was driving)
    5) Should I just wait for the court summons?
    6) I live on the isle of wight, can they make me go to a mainland court?


    Many thanks,
    Richard e Collins.
    Last edited by Richard E C; 14-02-2018 at 6:34 PM. Reason: Removed personal data
Page 1
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 11th Feb 18, 5:00 PM
    • 9,053 Posts
    • 8,738 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #2
    • 11th Feb 18, 5:00 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Feb 18, 5:00 PM
    UKPC are fraudsters, read this

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11858473/Parking-firm-UKPC-admits-faking-tickets-to-fine-drivers.html

    Also, to get a taste of how these companies scam the unwary, watch this video

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and write a robust letter of complaint to your MP. Let us rid ourselves of the parasitic companies.
    Last edited by The Deep; 11-02-2018 at 5:05 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Feb 18, 5:11 PM
    • 56,189 Posts
    • 69,850 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 11th Feb 18, 5:11 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Feb 18, 5:11 PM
    A) Do they have to take me to court before any one can start chasing me and showing up at my door?
    Yes, they would have to win in court then you refuse to pay! Not going to happen.

    2) Because of schedule 4 of the protection of freedoms Act 2012 I will be liable for the charge when it goes of to court, does this mean they do not have to prove who was driving? (they don't know who was driving)
    They do not have to prove who was driving, if they complied with the POFA when serving the NTK (wording and deadlines).

    3) If it goes to court and does not go my way what do you think the final bill will be?
    Only a couple of people on pepipoo and here lost in 2017, hundreds won. But people who lose, normally get told to pay between 150 - 200.

    4) I have not appealed the ticket, is it too late? (it would have required me to say I was driving)
    Not too late, and an appeal does not need you to say who was driving; the keeper should have appealed the windscreen PCN, like we advise. Do that now, online, as 'registered keeper'.

    5) Should I just wait for the court summons?
    There is no court summons, it's not a criminal thing. You are not 'summoned' to court.

    I think if I have a sympathetic magistrate
    It doesn't go to Magistrates' Court! Just a small claim, in a room with an Judge at a table deciding the case. A person with VF is protected under the Equality Act 2010, and and the case would NOT be lost by you.

    6) I live on the isle of wight, can they make me go to a mainland court?
    Yes but if you win they will be liable for your costs, loss of leave/salary, and travel.

    I have cystic fibrosis and because of issues with my tummy I have to drink more water than a normal person may. This is why I needed the loo. The clause for not leaving the site was not clear and I did not know about it but their signage is large and for all but this clause visible from the driving seat.
    They have breached the Equality Act 2010 then, by having a policy that does not make a reasonable adjustment for the disabled population at large. You are considered disabled under the EA definition and the reason for popping to the toilet was directly caused by your condition and needs.

    I reckon you should write as keeper, appealing the PCN and saying that you were an occupant of the car and (explain your CF and your regular water/toileting needs).

    Include the receipt for the year planner but say there is no evidence that all occupants of the car 'left the site', however it is true that your medical condition caused you to need to visit the toilet and this is covered by the reasonable adjustments duty on UKPC as a Service Provider. UKPC cannot charge a person with CF for using the toilet when shopping, and would have no 'legitimate interest' allowing them to override their legal duty and your protected characteristics within the Equality Act.

    Ask for their evidence that all occupants of the car 'left the site' and their evidence as to who was driving.

    Now URGENTLY EDIT OUT half the stuff you wrote above, remove ALL sentences about who parked and what the driver did, and who the driver was.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 11-02-2018 at 5:14 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • waamo
    • By waamo 11th Feb 18, 5:20 PM
    • 3,000 Posts
    • 3,869 Thanks
    waamo
    • #4
    • 11th Feb 18, 5:20 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Feb 18, 5:20 PM
    There seems to be a County Court on the IoW. If they file papers it may well get moved to your local county court.

    I can't see the ppc being very keen on that.
    This space for hire.
    • Richard E C
    • By Richard E C 12th Feb 18, 8:00 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Richard E C
    • #5
    • 12th Feb 18, 8:00 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Feb 18, 8:00 PM
    Thank you for the advice, I will appeal the PCN.
    • Richard E C
    • By Richard E C 25th Mar 18, 7:37 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Richard E C
    • #6
    • 25th Mar 18, 7:37 PM
    • #6
    • 25th Mar 18, 7:37 PM
    Appeal successful. Received letter on the 19th March. They have apologised for the giving me the ticket.

    Thank you everyone for help with putting my side of what happened accurately and achieving this outcome.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 25th Mar 18, 7:46 PM
    • 17,815 Posts
    • 22,454 Thanks
    Redx
    • #7
    • 25th Mar 18, 7:46 PM
    • #7
    • 25th Mar 18, 7:46 PM
    well done

    hopefully you are noiw fully informed of this topic and how it affects you , especially as CM put you straight on quite a few misconceptions regarding civil cases and the laws involved

    best wishes and we hope NEVER to see you again, unless you are advising others on here of course
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 25th Mar 18, 7:47 PM
    • 17,293 Posts
    • 27,250 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #8
    • 25th Mar 18, 7:47 PM
    • #8
    • 25th Mar 18, 7:47 PM
    Excellent result Richard.

    On which point do you believe the appeal was won please? Your information will give us contemporaneous understanding as to what tips the balance with a direct appeal to UKPC.

    The more intelligence we have about individual PPCs, the better we can help others fight their charges.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 25th Mar 18, 7:50 PM
    • 56,189 Posts
    • 69,850 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 25th Mar 18, 7:50 PM
    • #9
    • 25th Mar 18, 7:50 PM
    If you wrote the appeal suggested (below) I reckon it will have been cancelled partly due to the Equality Act, with UKPC wanting to be able to show the BPA that they can 'play nicely' and do cancel such PCNs, and partly because they had no evidence of the driver 'leaving the site' and could not have won at POPLA!

    I reckon you should write as keeper, appealing the PCN and saying that you were an occupant of the car and (explain your CF and your regular water/toileting needs).

    Include the receipt for the year planner but say there is no evidence that all occupants of the car 'left the site', however it is true that your medical condition caused you to need to visit the toilet and this is covered by the reasonable adjustments duty on UKPC as a Service Provider. UKPC cannot charge a person with CF for using the toilet when shopping, and would have no 'legitimate interest' allowing them to override their legal duty and your protected characteristics within the Equality Act.

    Ask for their evidence that all occupants of the car 'left the site' and their evidence as to who was driving.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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