Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • madmidwife
    • By madmidwife 11th Feb 18, 2:45 PM
    • 40Posts
    • 8Thanks
    madmidwife
    Small Claims date received
    • #1
    • 11th Feb 18, 2:45 PM
    Small Claims date received 11th Feb 18 at 2:45 PM
    Hello
    I have been given a date to attend small claims court in Winchester due to Link parking issuing an invoice and Gladstones pursuing it.
    I didnt read the help on here before I responded with my defence
    Date has been set for 26th March.
    Hoping someone can help with my witness statement which I have copied from the examples posted on here.
    Thanks
    Total debt: £27,000
    3 credit cards, 2 loans, 2 large overdrafts,1 catalogue,
Page 3
    • madmidwife
    • By madmidwife 6th Mar 18, 9:34 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    madmidwife
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/jpbsihaltf1rkru/Bundle%20the%20approved%20anon.pdf?dl=0
    Total debt: £27,000
    3 credit cards, 2 loans, 2 large overdrafts,1 catalogue,
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Mar 18, 9:49 PM
    • 57,449 Posts
    • 71,045 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Quite right, there is no WS there, and no pictures of a sign actually in that bay, just a pic showing a sign in another run of bays to the right, and a stock picture of *a sign* and an undated aerial view with some hand-drawn crosses on it, but no explanation as to what those crosses are meant to signify, nor proof that there are all those signs there (if it is assumed the crosses are meant to suggest signs).

    No explanation of why two PCNs were issued in one day, for the same parking event (car not moved).

    No explanation as to how £100 becomes £160 per PCN, when we all know Debt Recovery firms offer a no-collection, no fee' service and Link has paid NO-ONE a sum of £60 for debt collection, so there are no damages.

    Let's hope the court have the same set of (bad) mish-mash evidence and no WS.

    I would cover these issues in your skeleton argument, I think.

    Gladstones do muck these cases up!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 06-03-2018 at 9:52 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • madmidwife
    • By madmidwife 6th Mar 18, 9:54 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    madmidwife
    WS and evidence had to be submitted on 5th March,(I sent mine recorded delivery to the court) is it worth leaving it a few days and then checking with the court what they have received?
    And if they got the same what do I say?
    Total debt: £27,000
    3 credit cards, 2 loans, 2 large overdrafts,1 catalogue,
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Mar 18, 10:23 PM
    • 57,449 Posts
    • 71,045 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I would not check with the court. I would just include a line about this in your SA, and send that to the court and G's 48 hours before the hearing, with your costs schedule.

    Did you send all your WS & evidence to Gladstones too, we hope? Just checking again.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 6th Mar 18, 10:33 PM
    • 7,209 Posts
    • 6,687 Thanks
    KeithP
    Lynn, if I were you I would now remove that dropbox link.

    You have made a pretty poor attempt at hiding things.
    E.g. your full name is in clear view in several places, as is the PCN numbers, precise times, etc.
    Your postcode and car reg can be made out through your near transparent 'confidential' masks.

    All these things make it possible to identify you and your specific incident.

    Now that it has been determined that there is no Witness Statement there, probably best to remove that Dropbox image.
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Mar 18, 10:34 PM
    • 57,449 Posts
    • 71,045 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I agree, remove it now we've looked. You don't want Gladstones spotting that.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • madmidwife
    • By madmidwife 7th Mar 18, 7:28 AM
    • 40 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    madmidwife
    Thanks I have removed it and yes I sent everything to GS the same time as it got posted to the court.
    Total debt: £27,000
    3 credit cards, 2 loans, 2 large overdrafts,1 catalogue,
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 7th Mar 18, 8:23 AM
    • 2,482 Posts
    • 3,025 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    I disagree with C-M here actually

    I WOULD ask the court what they have received from the C. That way you can let the court know, NOW, that you do not have a WS. It makes you appear significantly more credible if you have a contemporaneous record before the hearing that you did not have a WS, juust in case GS sent one to the court. Either through incompetence or malice.

    You should be writing a skeleton argument now, summarising your defence and rebutting their pathetic documents - including that the C has failed to serve a WS, so you ask that the claim is dismissed as they cannot prove any element of their claim.
    • madmidwife
    • By madmidwife 12th Mar 18, 10:19 AM
    • 40 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    madmidwife
    So I rang the court this morning and after being put on hold for a couple of minutes was told that it takes a week or so for the court to process documents received and if they haven't received a WS from the claimants this will be passed to the Judge for his directions and I would be informed of any decisions.
    I'm taking this as a WS has not been received and am going to write my skeleton accordingly.
    Hope to post it on here in next few days.
    Thanks everyone for getting me this far
    Total debt: £27,000
    3 credit cards, 2 loans, 2 large overdrafts,1 catalogue,
    • Marni68
    • By Marni68 12th Mar 18, 4:26 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Marni68
    Draft Defence
    Apologies if I have written here and should not.
    You helped another “theblackfox” with information/advice regarding Witness Statement /Civil Proceedings Rules/ Draft Defence and CCJ set aside application. I seem to be unable to find those posts despite using the advanced search facility and watching the videos on how to search for posts in threads numerous times. I am trying to write a Witness Statement and Draft Defence to send with N244 and the information on here is invaluable if you can find it again. Now I copy down the gist of everything I’m reading as I never seem to find the same information threads/posts a second time. Please can you help with directing how I may find the thread started by “theblackfox” titled Gladstones / Euro Car Parks / CCJ / Wrong Address. I believe the start date was 18th October 2017 @ 5:18pm.
    Many thanks in advance, Marni68
    • waamo
    • By waamo 12th Mar 18, 5:26 PM
    • 3,229 Posts
    • 4,269 Thanks
    waamo
    Apologies if I have written here and should not.
    You helped another “theblackfox” with information/advice regarding Witness Statement /Civil Proceedings Rules/ Draft Defence and CCJ set aside application. I seem to be unable to find those posts despite using the advanced search facility and watching the videos on how to search for posts in threads numerous times. I am trying to write a Witness Statement and Draft Defence to send with N244 and the information on here is invaluable if you can find it again. Now I copy down the gist of everything I’m reading as I never seem to find the same information threads/posts a second time. Please can you help with directing how I may find the thread started by “theblackfox” titled Gladstones / Euro Car Parks / CCJ / Wrong Address. I believe the start date was 18th October 2017 @ 5:18pm.
    Many thanks in advance, Marni68
    Originally posted by Marni68
    You need to start your own thread. Advising two people in one thread is bound to lead to confusion.
    This space for hire.
    • madmidwife
    • By madmidwife 16th Mar 18, 12:45 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    madmidwife
    This is what I have so far, do I need to add anything?? Also need help with the wording as to why it should be struck out due to lack of witness statement.

    Skeleton Argument Case: xxxxx

    The Claimant has provided no evidence (in pre-action correspondence or otherwise) that the Defendant was the driver. The Defendant avers that the Claimant is therefore limited to pursuing the Defendant in these proceedings under the provisions set out by statute in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("POFA")
    As an unrepresented Defendant I ask the presiding Judge to use their case management powers and strike this claim out to relieve me of the burden of having to defend myself as the Claimant still cannot prove I was the driver of either vehicle at the time, in view of the Claimant having supplied no evidence of any basis for a claim against me in law.
    The Claimant has also not provided a witness statement to the Defendant in a timely manner therefore the Defendant again asks the case to be struck out as ?????
    The Claimant has not provided enough details in the particulars of claim to file a full defence. In particular, the full details of the contract which it is alleged was broken have never been provided. As the claimant has not provided this information, signage details provided by the Claimant have been from stock photographs and the details may not be correct. Photographs taken by Link Parking of their signage are not clear and again the small print is illegible therefore minor variants in text may occur.
    Neither the claim form, nor the signage state who the owner of the land is. A Land Registry search shows Flat 42 as being a freehold property.
    The signage states that "Link Parking Ltd. manage this car park". Correspondence from Link Parking show that they manage this on behalf of Hazelvine Ltd, who are also a property management company and not the landowners. As an agent, the Claimant has no legal right to bring such a claim in their name. Any claim should be in the name of the landowner.
    If Link Parking deny acting as an agent, they are put to strict proof by disclosing the appropriate parts of their contract with the landowner and not Hazelvine Ltd who are a property management company.
    In the event that the court finds a contract based on signage can supersede the permit terms already agreed and the lease, I put the claimant to strict proof of a chain of contracts leading from the landowner to this claimant which enable these charges to be pursued in court by this contractor, for these alleged contravention(s), whatever they may be.
    It is denied that the Defendant or lawful users of his/her vehicle were in breach of any parking conditions or were not permitted to park in circumstances where an express permission to park had been granted to the Defendant permitting the above mentioned vehicles to be parked by the current occupier and leaseholder of Flat 42 Parson Street Bristol, whose tenancy agreement permits the parking of vehicle(s) on land. The Defendant avers that there was an absolute entitlement to park deriving from the terms of the lease, which cannot be fettered by any alleged parking terms. The tenant’s contract makes no assertion that a permit must be displayed to use the bay, nor that a penalty of £100 must be paid in the event of a failure to do so (Exhibit 3). The tenancy agreement’s lack of specificity on any conditions related to parking in the relevant bay can only be construed that none of the restrictions asserted by the claimant apply.
    I contend, therefore, that the tenant’s agreement provides an unfettered right to park in their assigned bay for themselves and their invited guests. This cannot be superseded, altered, or ignored by a parking management company post hoc. I believe that any parking management company with a legitimate interest in protecting the parking rights of a residential space – which is surely their only purpose – would immediately rescind any charges issued to residents and their legitimate visitors. (Evidence provided by the Claimant shows the vehicles parked in the correct/allocated bay)
    The Defendant avers that the operator’s signs cannot (i) override the existing rights enjoyed by residents and their visitors and (ii) that parking easements cannot retrospectively and unilaterally be restricted where provided for within the lease. The Defendant will rely upon the judgments on appeal of HHJ Harris QC in Jopson v Homeguard Services Ltd (2016) and of Sir Christopher Slade in K-Sultana Saeed v Plustrade Ltd [2001] EWCA Civ 2011. In Pace v Mr N [2016] C6GF14F0 [2016] it was found that the parking company could not override the tenant's right to park by requiring a permit to park furthermore In Link Parking v Ms P C7GF50J7 [2016] it was also found that the parking company could not override the tenant's right to park by requiring a permit to park.
    Accordingly it is denied that:
    there was any agreement as between the Defendant or driver of the vehicle and the Claimant, there was any obligation (at all) to display a permit; and the Claimant has suffered loss or damage or that there is a lawful basis to pursue a claim for loss.
    The residential site that is the subject of these proceedings is not a site where there is a commercial value to be protected. The claimant has not suffered loss or pecuniary disadvantage. The penalty charge is, accordingly, unconscionable in this context.
    The claim includes a sum of £50, described as "Legal representative's costs". This work is done as part of the Claimant's everyday routine and no "expert services" are involved. The Claimant is put to strict proof, by way of timesheets or otherwise, to show how this cost has been incurred.
    I request the court strike out both claims xxxxxxxx and xxxxxxxxx for similar reasons cited by District Judge Cross of St Albans County Court on 20/09/16 where a similar claim was struck out without a hearing, due to Gladstones' template particulars for a private parking firm being 'incoherent', failing to comply with CPR16.4, and ''providing no facts that could give rise to any apparent claim in law''.

    I believe that the facts stated in this Skeleton Defence are true.
    Total debt: £27,000
    3 credit cards, 2 loans, 2 large overdrafts,1 catalogue,
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 16th Mar 18, 1:16 PM
    • 2,482 Posts
    • 3,025 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    A skelly does not need a statement of truth, and its an argument, not a skelly defence.

    Use paragraph numbering.

    It shouldnot simply reiterate your Defence, you need to bullet point your main arguments, plus it should also point out how rubbish their Witness Statement is and all the holes in their case.
    • madmidwife
    • By madmidwife 19th Mar 18, 6:05 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    madmidwife
    Will this be enough? i'm intending to post it first class wednesday so its there in ample time for the hearing the following monday.

    Skeleton Argument of the the defendant xxxxxx

    1. The Claimant has provided no evidence (in pre-action correspondence or otherwise) that the Defendant was the driver.

    2. The Claimant has not provided a witness statement to the Defendant in a timely manner as requested in the Court Directions (a call was made to the Court on 12/03/18 and a Court representative was made aware that the Defendant had not received a Witness Statement); therefore the Defendant asks the case to be struck out.

    3. The Claimant has not provided enough details in the particulars of claim to file a full defence. In particular, the full details of the contract which it is alleged was broken have never been provided.

    4. The evidence provided by the Claimant was sent by an email attachment, most of which are of poor quality and illegible.

    5. Signage details provided by the Claimant have been from stock photographs and the details may not be correct. Photographs taken by the Link Parking Agent of their signage are not clear and again the small print is illegible therefore minor variants in text may occur.

    6. There is an aerial view provided by the Claimant of the site with random ‘x’ marked in pen, there is no explanation as to what this represents.

    7. Neither the claim form, nor the signage state who the owner of the land is, correspondence from Link Parking show that they manage this on behalf of Hazelvine Ltd, who are also a property management company and not the landowners. As an agent, the Claimant has no legal right to bring such a claim in their name. Any claim should be in the name of the landowner.

    8. If Link Parking deny acting as an agent, they are put to strict proof by disclosing the appropriate parts of their contract with the landowner and not Hazelvine Ltd who are a property management company.

    9. The Defendant or lawful users of his/her vehicle were not in breach of any parking conditions or were not permitted to park in circumstances where an express permission to park had been granted to the Defendant permitting the vehicles to be parked by the current occupier and leaseholder of Flat 42 Parson Street Bristol, whose tenancy agreement permits the parking of vehicle(s) on the land.

    10. The tenant’s contract makes no assertion that a permit must be displayed to use the bay, nor that a penalty of £100 must be paid in the event of a failure to do so. The tenancy agreement’s lack of specificity on any conditions related to parking in the relevant bay can only be construed that none of the restrictions asserted by the claimant apply.

    11. The residential site that is the subject of these proceedings is not a site where there is a commercial value to be protected. The claimant has not suffered loss or pecuniary disadvantage.

    12. As there is no commercial value to be protected or any loss to the Claimant there would be no need to issue a penalty charge at 21.45 to a vehicle parked with the current leaseholders permission in the correctly allocated bay for the property.

    13. The Claimant’s solicitors are known to be a serial issuer of generic claims similar to this one, with no due diligence, no scrutiny of details nor even checking for a true cause of action. The solicitor's conduct in many of these cases is believed to be currently the subject in the Parking (Code of Practice) Bill which was discussed in the House of Commons at 12:43 pm on 2nd February 2018.
    Total debt: £27,000
    3 credit cards, 2 loans, 2 large overdrafts,1 catalogue,
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Mar 18, 6:39 PM
    • 57,449 Posts
    • 71,045 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Doesn't say anything about Jopson or loading or grace periods? Have you already filed all your evidence including the Jopson transcript and pics of signs, etc. Nothing to add?

    If you refer to the Parliamentary debate, file the Transcript of it, as evidence too.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • madmidwife
    • By madmidwife 19th Mar 18, 7:04 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    madmidwife
    Yes filed defence at the beginning of the month that included all the things you mentioned, and a copy of tenancy agreement and an excerpt from Henry Greenslades popla report.
    Still not had a WS from GS so remain hopeful that the court didnt get one either.
    As suggested I rang the court which is why i mentioned it in the Skeleton.
    Do I need to reference the documents I sent as evidence or refer to them in the argument?
    Is there anything else I'm missing?
    Thanks
    Total debt: £27,000
    3 credit cards, 2 loans, 2 large overdrafts,1 catalogue,
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 19th Mar 18, 7:10 PM
    • 7,209 Posts
    • 6,687 Thanks
    KeithP
    Madmidwife, did you explicitly agree to service of documents by email?
    If not perhaps you should add a sentence to 4. saying that.

    I would change the first few words of 10. to "The tenant’s tenancy agreement makes no ..." to avoid confusion with all the 'contracts'.
    .
    • madmidwife
    • By madmidwife 19th Mar 18, 7:54 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    madmidwife
    Thanks KeithP
    No I didn't expect an email and it actually went into my junk folder! luckily I check regularly.
    I've changed the wording as suggested. Thank you.
    Total debt: £27,000
    3 credit cards, 2 loans, 2 large overdrafts,1 catalogue,
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Mar 18, 10:36 PM
    • 57,449 Posts
    • 71,045 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Do I need to reference the documents I sent as evidence or refer to them in the argument?
    You could if it helps you. Think of this summary as your crib sheet, listing your main defence arguments - will it help your nerves to have a note about which evidence supports each line?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • madmidwife
    • By madmidwife 26th Mar 18, 6:19 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    madmidwife
    Quick update,
    WS was sent to me eventually on 22nd March again via email.
    Court hearing was today, GS sent a representative (am I getting old or solicitors getting younger?? ) Anyway think he was more nervous than me.
    Judge questioned him as to why WS hadnt been received, to which he could give no answer but rather than the case being struck out (I think the Judge also felt sorry for him) he has given them until the 12th April to give a valid reason why it wasn't submitted and also said cost were to be reserved. He then went on to say if he was satisfied there was a reason then the case would be heard at the next available date.
    So not quite sure if I can count this as a victory or not, or if I can claim my expenses?
    Total debt: £27,000
    3 credit cards, 2 loans, 2 large overdrafts,1 catalogue,
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

3,667Posts Today

8,343Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • It's the start of mini MSE's half term. In order to be the best daddy possible, Im stopping work and going off line? https://t.co/kwjvtd75YU

  • RT @shellsince1982: @MartinSLewis thanx to your email I have just saved myself £222 by taking a SIM only deal for £7.50 a month and keeping?

  • Today's Friday twitter poll: An important question, building on yesterday's important discussions: Which is the best bit of the pizza...

  • Follow Martin