Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Money_Grabber13579
    • By Money_Grabber13579 10th Feb 18, 6:20 PM
    • 2,873Posts
    • 1,384Thanks
    Money_Grabber13579
    Mercedes A Class
    • #1
    • 10th Feb 18, 6:20 PM
    Mercedes A Class 10th Feb 18 at 6:20 PM
    Currently looking at a new Mercedes A Class (current, rather than forthcoming model) and have a couple of questions:

    1. Looking at either the A160 or A180 (both petrol) and understand that they have the same engine, but presumably the mapping on the A180 is slightly different, to increase power etc. I would worry that the A160 might be a bit underpowered, but does anyone have any experience of which would be best?
    2. It needs to have an automatic gearbox, which I understand is a double clutch affair. What is the DCT automatic gearbox in the A Class like for town driving and short journeys (haven't been for a test drive yet, just trying to determine whether the A Class would be better than other makes/models etc)? Is there any reason to avoid this type of automatic gearbox?
    3. What would be a good target price on an A160 or A180 AMG Line with Premium Pack? Looking at some of the brokers at the moment and whilst it's coming out with close to a 15% discount, does that sound reasonable? The RRP on something like Carwow is almost £1k higher than on the Mercedes website, but it seems that Mercedes exclude Road Fund Licence, Delivery etc - presumably this is included in the Carwow price?

    Many thanks for your help.
    Northern Ireland club member No 382
Page 1
    • Aletank
    • By Aletank 11th Feb 18, 12:01 PM
    • 532 Posts
    • 177 Thanks
    Aletank
    • #2
    • 11th Feb 18, 12:01 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Feb 18, 12:01 PM
    Some good discounts here https://www.drivethedeal.com/SpecialOffers.aspx
    • Money_Grabber13579
    • By Money_Grabber13579 11th Feb 18, 12:22 PM
    • 2,873 Posts
    • 1,384 Thanks
    Money_Grabber13579
    • #3
    • 11th Feb 18, 12:22 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Feb 18, 12:22 PM
    Thanks Aletank.

    The problem with Drivethedeal at the moment seems to be that it is impossible to customise an A Class I.e. you just have to accept one of the particular models and specs which they have in stock/near stock.

    Accordingly, I can find an automatic with premium pack in white, but agree that the discounts on there are pretty good.
    Northern Ireland club member No 382
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 11th Feb 18, 12:37 PM
    • 16,454 Posts
    • 9,704 Thanks
    motorguy
    • #4
    • 11th Feb 18, 12:37 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Feb 18, 12:37 PM
    Havent checked prices but try www.broadspeed.com

    Also drivethedeal also allow you to spec the car you want, however the very best discounts are the ones on "Special Offer" that dealers are wanting to dispose of
    • Money_Grabber13579
    • By Money_Grabber13579 11th Feb 18, 12:52 PM
    • 2,873 Posts
    • 1,384 Thanks
    Money_Grabber13579
    • #5
    • 11th Feb 18, 12:52 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Feb 18, 12:52 PM
    Thanks motorguy,

    Not sure if iím Missing something on the drivethedeal website, as the A class seems to be missing from the list of cars to spec? All other models seem to be there though.

    Iíve tried broadspeed but they seem a little more expensive than carwow.

    Anyone have any thoughts on my other two questions as well? Any help much appreciated!
    Northern Ireland club member No 382
    • Aletank
    • By Aletank 11th Feb 18, 1:25 PM
    • 532 Posts
    • 177 Thanks
    Aletank
    • #6
    • 11th Feb 18, 1:25 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Feb 18, 1:25 PM
    If the new model is coming out, they have probably stopped production of the current model maybe ? So your choice maybe limited to what's available.
    I believe the time frame for the new model is -
    • Start of Feb - Launch to press etc
    • March - Public release, motor shows/dealers
    • June - 1st customer deliveries
    www.mbclub.co.uk/forums is your best place for Mercedes info, gearbox etc
    Last edited by Aletank; 11-02-2018 at 1:27 PM.
    • Money_Grabber13579
    • By Money_Grabber13579 11th Feb 18, 2:27 PM
    • 2,873 Posts
    • 1,384 Thanks
    Money_Grabber13579
    • #7
    • 11th Feb 18, 2:27 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Feb 18, 2:27 PM
    Thanks, hadn!!!8217;t actually thought about production having ceased already so that!!!8217;s a good point.

    I!!!8217;ll also post my questions over on the mbclub website, but thanks all for your help.
    Northern Ireland club member No 382
    • Aletank
    • By Aletank 11th Feb 18, 2:33 PM
    • 532 Posts
    • 177 Thanks
    Aletank
    • #8
    • 11th Feb 18, 2:33 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Feb 18, 2:33 PM
    I bet production has stopped, lines changed over and the ramp up of the new model has started
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 11th Feb 18, 2:42 PM
    • 16,454 Posts
    • 9,704 Thanks
    motorguy
    • #9
    • 11th Feb 18, 2:42 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Feb 18, 2:42 PM
    Anyone have any thoughts on my other two questions as well? Any help much appreciated!
    Originally posted by Money_Grabber13579
    1) I'd go with the A180 - they're not exactly a very light car, so the extra bit of power would be useful over the A160s 100BHP
    2) Mercedes auto boxes are usually very good. We've an auto A45 and love it.
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 11th Feb 18, 9:17 PM
    • 1,462 Posts
    • 1,079 Thanks
    IanMSpencer
    The stalk change is nice and easy. The clutch judder was just about noticeable compared with a proper auto, and the lack of creep were what I noticed going from a C class to the A class. I found the A class slightly claustrophobic compared with the previous model C class - I don't really like the fashion for small rear windows and the high bonnet. A180 plenty powerful for normal driving.

    The main warning on a dual clutch is that you need to remember it is a clutch and if you are in traffic, resist the urge to creep along or use the clutch to hold on a hill. In a good old auto, creeping is a good thing, in a dual clutch it could kill the clutch, just as in a manual. This isn't well understood and some premature failures may be due to driving a dual clutch as an auto.
    • Money_Grabber13579
    • By Money_Grabber13579 11th Feb 18, 9:56 PM
    • 2,873 Posts
    • 1,384 Thanks
    Money_Grabber13579
    Thanks Ian,

    When when you say creeping could kill the clutch, do you mean that with a dct box, you should always put it in park at traffic lights, on a hill etc, rather than have your foot on the brakes?

    Iíve only ever been used to a Ďproperí automatic, which I believe is common in BMWís but have heard horror stories with DCT boxes. I guess iím Just trying to work out whether that is likely to cause an issue before purchasing!

    The other thing iím struggling to work out is how to tell which type of auto box a car has. The options have been narrowed down to (other than the A class) a BMW 1 series (which I presume is a proper automatic?), a Mini Cooper or an Audi A1. Are these DCT boxes or proper automatics?
    Last edited by Money_Grabber13579; 11-02-2018 at 10:01 PM.
    Northern Ireland club member No 382
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 12th Feb 18, 10:42 AM
    • 1,462 Posts
    • 1,079 Thanks
    IanMSpencer
    Thanks Ian,

    When when you say creeping could kill the clutch, do you mean that with a dct box, you should always put it in park at traffic lights, on a hill etc, rather than have your foot on the brakes?

    Iíve only ever been used to a Ďproperí automatic, which I believe is common in BMWís but have heard horror stories with DCT boxes. I guess iím Just trying to work out whether that is likely to cause an issue before purchasing!

    The other thing iím struggling to work out is how to tell which type of auto box a car has. The options have been narrowed down to (other than the A class) a BMW 1 series (which I presume is a proper automatic?), a Mini Cooper or an Audi A1. Are these DCT boxes or proper automatics?
    Originally posted by Money_Grabber13579
    They are all DCT.

    You are fine with the foot on the brake, however, in a real auto, you can sit on a hill balancing on the accelerator (or at least at idle the car may hold itself). Similarly, if you are in a motorway queue, you might be grinding along at less than 5mph - in a classic auto, you sit on the brake and let the auto fight against the brakes to drift along, modulating the brake to control your speed. In a DCT, like a manual, there is a speed below which you have to ride the clutch to move slowly. In a manual you would probably repeatedly engage and disengage the clutch to move along slowly, whereas a DCT doesn't do that, it will just allow the clutch to slip continuously, which can lead to overheating. This is a bigger problem when using DCTs as tow cars and doing low speed manoeuvring. Some DCTs may try and overcome this by being quicker to engage, leading to a rougher more juddery ride.

    Basically, you have to remember that you are driving a manual clutch with automatic changing and treat the clutch accordingly - but the car will allow you to drive it as if it is a traditional auto sloppy box and in extreme circumstances will allow you to destroy the clutch.
    • Money_Grabber13579
    • By Money_Grabber13579 12th Feb 18, 11:07 AM
    • 2,873 Posts
    • 1,384 Thanks
    Money_Grabber13579
    They are all DCT.

    You are fine with the foot on the brake, however, in a real auto, you can sit on a hill balancing on the accelerator (or at least at idle the car may hold itself). Similarly, if you are in a motorway queue, you might be grinding along at less than 5mph - in a classic auto, you sit on the brake and let the auto fight against the brakes to drift along, modulating the brake to control your speed. In a DCT, like a manual, there is a speed below which you have to ride the clutch to move slowly. In a manual you would probably repeatedly engage and disengage the clutch to move along slowly, whereas a DCT doesn't do that, it will just allow the clutch to slip continuously, which can lead to overheating. This is a bigger problem when using DCTs as tow cars and doing low speed manoeuvring. Some DCTs may try and overcome this by being quicker to engage, leading to a rougher more juddery ride.

    Basically, you have to remember that you are driving a manual clutch with automatic changing and treat the clutch accordingly - but the car will allow you to drive it as if it is a traditional auto sloppy box and in extreme circumstances will allow you to destroy the clutch.
    Originally posted by IanMSpencer
    Thanks Ian,

    Is the 1 Series a DCT as well? Is that different from the 3 Series? Always thought mine had an 8 speed torque converter, which is great.
    Northern Ireland club member No 382
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 12th Feb 18, 12:34 PM
    • 1,462 Posts
    • 1,079 Thanks
    IanMSpencer
    Thanks Ian,

    Is the 1 Series a DCT as well? Is that different from the 3 Series? Always thought mine had an 8 speed torque converter, which is great.
    Originally posted by Money_Grabber13579
    1 series is "Steptronic" which I understand is DCT:

    http://www.globaltechnologyblog.com/automotive/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-bmws-steptronic-transmission/

    Not sure when the 3 series went to DCT but I think current models have switched to DCT.
    • Money_Grabber13579
    • By Money_Grabber13579 12th Feb 18, 9:23 PM
    • 2,873 Posts
    • 1,384 Thanks
    Money_Grabber13579
    1 series is "Steptronic" which I understand is DCT:

    http://www.globaltechnologyblog.com/automotive/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-bmws-steptronic-transmission/

    Not sure when the 3 series went to DCT but I think current models have switched to DCT.
    Originally posted by IanMSpencer
    This is all very confusing! The BMW brochure states that the Steptronic gearbox has 2 clutches whilst wikipedia states that the steptronic box used on the 1 and 3 series is a ZF 8HP, which is a torque converter box...

    Then, various other websites try to explain the differences between a DCT and Steptronic box, but none of it makes any sense!
    Northern Ireland club member No 382
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 13th Feb 18, 8:36 AM
    • 1,462 Posts
    • 1,079 Thanks
    IanMSpencer
    This is all very confusing! The BMW brochure states that the Steptronic gearbox has 2 clutches whilst wikipedia states that the steptronic box used on the 1 and 3 series is a ZF 8HP, which is a torque converter box...

    Then, various other websites try to explain the differences between a DCT and Steptronic box, but none of it makes any sense!
    Originally posted by Money_Grabber13579
    I suspect BMW liked the name Steptronic and have used it as a generic marketing name for a variety of different auto boxes. Given that manufacturers often source boxes from other manufacturers who evolve their products outside the timeframe of model changes and also manufacturers like to put new tech into run out models to get the bugs out of them before new model launches it is quite difficult to track.
    • Money_Grabber13579
    • By Money_Grabber13579 14th Feb 18, 11:53 PM
    • 2,873 Posts
    • 1,384 Thanks
    Money_Grabber13579
    Thanks all.

    Does anyone have any experience with negotiating with car brokers such as carwow etc? Will they be willing to move on the prices or do they treat it as the final offer and the customer can either accept or walk away?

    Also, has anyone traded in through them? What do the prices tend to be like I.e. do they offer cheap prices on new cars but subsidise it by offer rubbish prices in the trade in?
    Northern Ireland club member No 382
    • Mike967angus
    • By Mike967angus 15th Feb 18, 9:35 AM
    • 23 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Mike967angus
    Bit of a left field suggestion but the Infiniti Q30 is mechanically similar to the A Class in fact it uses engines gearbox trim etc They are built on the same platform so might be worth a quick look before you commit to the Merc.
    Regarding the deal it's swings and roundabouts in my experience. I have used the Car Wow price to negotiate with a dealer. Sometimes it's worth selling the car to a trader or webuyanycar if you save enough the other end. Conversely if they give over the odds on your p/X it is really just a discount off the new one.
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 15th Feb 18, 3:56 PM
    • 1,462 Posts
    • 1,079 Thanks
    IanMSpencer
    Thanks all.

    Does anyone have any experience with negotiating with car brokers such as carwow etc? Will they be willing to move on the prices or do they treat it as the final offer and the customer can either accept or walk away?

    Also, has anyone traded in through them? What do the prices tend to be like I.e. do they offer cheap prices on new cars but subsidise it by offer rubbish prices in the trade in?
    Originally posted by Money_Grabber13579
    I used an Internet dealer to get a price and then went direct to Audi who matched the price. We talked PCP but then went with the discounted purchase price (which they are committed to because APR is quoted against that and if the purchase price is different for cash then the APR is not valid).
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

90Posts Today

1,527Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • RT @mmhpi: Third time lucky? After being delayed twice, tomorrow MPs are due to debate our #RecoverySpace proposals in parliament. @helen_u?

  • Just a quick note. I've been overwhelmed by the strength of support by my campaign to stop facebook fake ads today? https://t.co/KexhjVVznY

  • RT @mmhpi: On the eve of tomorrow's #RecoverySpace debate in parliament, we just delivered our 10,000 letters to the Chancellor. People in?

  • Follow Martin