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  • FIRST POST
    • Iwanttobefree
    • By Iwanttobefree 10th Feb 18, 4:26 PM
    • 1,509Posts
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    Iwanttobefree
    What happens when I cant pay?
    • #1
    • 10th Feb 18, 4:26 PM
    What happens when I cant pay? 10th Feb 18 at 4:26 PM
    Hi am on a DMP and owe about 22K to 10 different creditors (unsecured debts) and have been on it for a few years.

    I used to have £186 a month to share between them, but I have failed my medical to get ESA support and have just also failed my tribunal appeal.

    However both my physio and my GP say I must not work and my GP is signing me off indefinitely.

    The outcome of this means that as my wife works more than about 25 hours at minimum wage, I will get zero benefits, meaning we are £109 a week worse off.

    Until our mortgage finishes in about 7 years, we simply can no longer afford to pay them any more than £1.

    In 7 years they can have £300 between them.

    So what happens now?

    Sorry if I sound a bit blunt, am on the verge of simply giving up, I cant take much more of this stress.
    I went to the doctor the other day, Lady Doctor, She says

    "We've got your test results back, we know what it is.

    You've got beating heart disease" Howard Devoto 2009
Page 4
    • Iwanttobefree
    • By Iwanttobefree 4th Jul 18, 10:18 PM
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    Iwanttobefree
    Reading one of sourcrates other posts today, I see that Moorcroft no longer buy debts, hence Vanquis always owns it.

    That's interesting to know.
    I went to the doctor the other day, Lady Doctor, She says

    "We've got your test results back, we know what it is.

    You've got beating heart disease" Howard Devoto 2009
    • Iwanttobefree
    • By Iwanttobefree 5th Jul 18, 10:24 PM
    • 1,509 Posts
    • 3,765 Thanks
    Iwanttobefree
    And so it continues.

    Sorry for the ranting, but I'm not well, and this crap every other day at the moment simply ins't helping me at all.

    Recap, Been talking via email to a pleasant sympathetic person (never gave their name mind you) at Vanquis.

    They wrote my debt off and said we needed to phone about my wife's account.

    I asked if it was just to get her authorisation, as I'm no good on the phone.

    He/she responded

    we could look to send out an authorised user form which enables us to speak with you regarding your wife’s finances if this should help?
    So as it was just to confirm her permission, she phoned, and what I wrote in post 60 took place,

    That was on Tuesday.

    A couple of hours later on Tuesday, I emailed a polite version of what I said in post 60 as a reply to the polite person I've been talking to, saying how stressed it was making me feel etc.

    Wednesday she received the following email from Moorcroft

    Dear MRS xxxxx

    You have been sent this communication by the Moorcroft Group as confirmation that we’ve been given permission to contact you using this email address.

    Should you wish us to contact you by another method, don’t hesitate to contact us on 0161 475 2971, or via our website www.mdrl.co.uk – together with your alternative contact detail
    Today she received a letter from Moorcroft saying

    IMPORTANT INFORMATION - POSSIBLE FURTHER ACTION

    To prevent possible further debt recovery action, please send your payment proposal before 09/07/18 or telephone us on 0161 475 2971 within the next 7 days.

    If you do not contact us following receipt of this letter we may have no alternative other than to recommend to our clients that they consider possible further debt recovery action against you

    Contact us now and we would be happy to discuss a repayment program that you can afford and maintain. In certain circumstances we may also be able to offer a substantial discount from the outstanding balance.

    Contact us now.

    xxx

    Debt Recovery Manager
    Bearing in mind that they were emailed and told that we were still querying her account with Vanquis, but also sent them our SOA, the letters and GP report we sent our other creditors.

    Then today I received another email from Vanquis specialist support team. I've copied and pasted it exactly as I received it.

    Hi xxxx
    Thank you for your email, unfortunately I will be only able to discuss your account. If you would like to discuss details regarding your wife please call us on 0800 019 8231 with her present.
    The Specialist Support Team.
    Which is back to what we did on Tuesday.

    Then there's LINK. It's like talking to a brick wall.

    Following on from post 52, I responded to their complaints department saying, quote

    Dear sir/madam

    I think there has been a little confusion somewhere

    I cc'd emails shown at the bottom of this email to your department hoping it would kick things in to gear so to speak.

    I didn't mean to raise an official complaint.

    On your final response, xxxxx states:

    "As you mention a vulnerability , I am happy to forward our account to our specialist support team for further review, however this would be dependent on the basis that you are able to supply medical documents and a completed budget account"


    The reason I cc'd it to you was that I HAVE already sent you this information, hence was getting stressed at the non recognition of this fact. I sent you income and outgoings, and a letter explaining fully our situation, I then sent it all again along with a copy of a letter from my husbands GP (that another creditor paid for) on 30th May.

    I sent it signed for and it was signed by Tayaba on 31st May 2018

    proof of delivery https://www.royalmail.com/track-your-item#/tracking-results/GK332644760GB

    I'm happy to re-email you the same documents if you require it, but i cannot afford the post.

    My income and outgoings are exactly the same as I sent you twice last month (done via CAB) except that both Vanquish and Capital one have since written off their debts in full due to my husbands health.

    Again apologies if I sound terse, that's not my intention, it's just that I kind of feel like I'm going around in circles when I have gone to the expense that I cant really afford of sending everything signed for, and then get asked for the same information again.

    Yours Faithfully
    And today she received (bearing in mind the numerous times we have said in both writing and email that we will not deal with it by phone) a 1 line email saying

    Please contact the team at Link on telephone number 03330 145 145 quoting reference xxxxxxxx
    At that point I had a knot in my stomach, and when my wife went shopping, got her to buy alcohol I cant afford, just to clear my head.
    I went to the doctor the other day, Lady Doctor, She says

    "We've got your test results back, we know what it is.

    You've got beating heart disease" Howard Devoto 2009
    • Iwanttobefree
    • By Iwanttobefree 6th Jul 18, 1:16 PM
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    Iwanttobefree
    So, on the 10th April I sent all creditors the information about my health and that we have no money.

    Creation Finance wrote us 3 letters each saying the account had been SOLD to Lowell on 31st May

    Lowell wrote my account off.

    My wife has two creation accounts and a shop direct account with Lowell.

    She has just had the following email

    Good Morning,

    Thank you for your email and for coming back to me.

    I can now advise that accounts xxxx and xxxx are being returned to the original creditor Creation Financial Services Limited.

    Please contact them directly and they will be able to provide some further information on that for you.

    Your other account with reference xxxx that was previously with Shop Direct remains on hold until 19th September.

    If you do have any further queries or if you require any further assistance then please do not hesitate to come back to me.

    Kind Regards
    So we are effectively back where we started at the beginning of April with Creation
    I went to the doctor the other day, Lady Doctor, She says

    "We've got your test results back, we know what it is.

    You've got beating heart disease" Howard Devoto 2009
    • January2015
    • By January2015 6th Jul 18, 1:29 PM
    • 2,207 Posts
    • 5,364 Thanks
    January2015
    I have no advice or help to offer, but I wanted to post to thank you for sharing your experience and progress (or lack of progress in some cases ).

    I realise the annoying struggles you are having with some creditors/DCAs get you down, but when they do, just think back to those creditors who have been supportive and written off debts. Hopefully that will give you the strength to keeping smiling and pushing forward. You are so determined you will get there in the end.
    DFW Nerd No. 1484 LBM 07/01/15 Debt was £95k I'm driving it down
    £1k emergency fund (member #84) £1k/£1k
    • Iwanttobefree
    • By Iwanttobefree 6th Jul 18, 1:32 PM
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    • 3,765 Thanks
    Iwanttobefree
    I have sent Lowell the following email

    Creation told me in their letters that they sold their accounts to you, not that you were managing them on their behalf?

    With regards to Shop Direct, I would prefer it if it wasn't on hold and it was dealt with now. Absolutely nothing will change, it's extremely unlikely my husband will ever work again. The stress of dealing with all of our creditors is badly! affecting both his health and mine.

    Having to go through it all again in September, send the identical info in etc will not help us at all.
    I went to the doctor the other day, Lady Doctor, She says

    "We've got your test results back, we know what it is.

    You've got beating heart disease" Howard Devoto 2009
    • Iwanttobefree
    • By Iwanttobefree 6th Jul 18, 5:56 PM
    • 1,509 Posts
    • 3,765 Thanks
    Iwanttobefree
    Have sent Moorcroft and Vanquis the following email

    Dear Sir/Madam

    I'm sorry for the tone in this email but us going around in circles is stressing both me and my husband to breaking point and is also making my husbands long term health worse.

    Yesterday you sent me the following letter.


    "IMPORTANT INFORMATION - POSSIBLE FURTHER ACTION

    To prevent possible further debt recovery action, please send your payment proposal before 09/07/18 or telephone us on 0161 475 2971 within the next 7 days.

    If you do not contact us following receipt of this letter we may have no alternative other than to recommend to our clients that they consider possible further debt recovery action against you............"


    As I said in the original email I sent you (that this is a reply to) I have no money. I've given you my income and outgoings, I've given you letters explaining our situation, I've given you a letter from my husbands GP. I cannot magic money out of thin air.

    There really is no more I can add. Due to this, there is no point in both me and my hiusband getting stressed out over letters and emails you or Vanquis send me.

    As absolutely nothing has changed, hence I cant even offer a token payment, as this is likely to be exactly the same this time next year etc, all I'm going to do from now is answer any letters that ask for something you don't already have.

    Or to put it another way, it doesnt matter how much you try to contact me via the phone (it will never be answered, we will only talk to all our creditors via email or letter), how many threatening letters you send us, I have nothing else to offer or say to you.

    Sure in 6 months if you want an update I can change the date on the info I've already sent, and re-send you everything
    (the only thing that will have changed will be some of our debts have been written off, and a few of our bills will no douobt rise slightly, my income wont change), but there is zero point me contacting you before then as there is absolutely nothing I can add.

    I'm not meaning to sound rude, I amn just really stressed. Vanquis have acted very sympathetically to my husband in all his comunication but the complete opposite with me.

    Even though it's my husbands health that means I can no longer pay you anything. My earnings are now all thats supporting both of us.

    My husband is the one dealing with all the debts, hence gets to see all communications to me as well. Vanquis are giving him sympathy with one hand and slapping him around the face with the other.

    For example, the letter they sent him today, said, quote

    “Thank you for recently contacting Vanquis., we appreciate this may be a difficult time for you”

    Whereas mine appears to have been passed back to you and you have effectively saud "phone us and give us money or else"

    I have sought advice from various debt advisors and they all say the same thing, I have no money, hence I cant even make a token payment.

    I've been advised that the FCA stresses you are to treat debtors sympathetically and it seems, in comparison to my husband (we are both in the same identical situation), I am not being treated that way,

    I hope we can work something out, sadl;y as alrady said, there is no money to pay yo at all.

    Regards
    Forgot to spell check the last paragraph oops
    I went to the doctor the other day, Lady Doctor, She says

    "We've got your test results back, we know what it is.

    You've got beating heart disease" Howard Devoto 2009
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 6th Jul 18, 6:13 PM
    • 15,305 Posts
    • 14,394 Thanks
    sourcrates
    You have to remember when your dealing with debt collectors, the person reading your letter is probably a spotty faced 18 year old straight out of short pants, with no more clue about how other people live than next doors cat.


    Most debt collection agencies are just call center type places, and usually employ a lot of younger people.


    It can be quite difficult to make yourself understood at times.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • Iwanttobefree
    • By Iwanttobefree 7th Jul 18, 12:02 PM
    • 1,509 Posts
    • 3,765 Thanks
    Iwanttobefree
    Am I right to be paranoid about this letter?

    https://imgur.com/a/9HkhzQ4

    All we wanted was for Vanquis to talk to me about my wifes account via email, and she has given permission on the phone but they say it's not good enough and have sent the following form.

    But part of me is very vary about it, as it seems to be saying I'm an additional user and bound by the terms and conditions, if I signed it, couldn't they then argue as I'm bound to the terms and conditions, it's now a joint debt (hence they could get a charging order)?

    Or am I worrying about nothing?

    Many thanks
    I went to the doctor the other day, Lady Doctor, She says

    "We've got your test results back, we know what it is.

    You've got beating heart disease" Howard Devoto 2009
    • January2015
    • By January2015 7th Jul 18, 12:43 PM
    • 2,207 Posts
    • 5,364 Thanks
    January2015
    Am I right to be paranoid about this letter?

    https://imgur.com/a/9HkhzQ4

    All we wanted was for Vanquis to talk to me about my wifes account via email, and she has given permission on the phone but they say it's not good enough and have sent the following form.

    But part of me is very vary about it, as it seems to be saying I'm an additional user and bound by the terms and conditions, if I signed it, couldn't they then argue as I'm bound to the terms and conditions, it's now a joint debt (hence they could get a charging order)?

    Or am I worrying about nothing?

    Many thanks
    Originally posted by Iwanttobefree
    I'm sure Fatbelly or Sourcrates will be along with advice, but me... personally.... I wouldn't fill that form in

    I looked on the Stepchange website and all they require for permission for someone else to talk to them about your account is the following....
    Dear Sirs,

    I authorise _________________________ (insert name of person) to act on my behalf and discuss my financial situation with you.


    Your signature:



    Your name:
    I would write your own letter, similar to the Stepchange one, make sure you include the account number etc. and send that back to them. However, as I said, I am sure Fatbelly or Sourcrates will pop in with more knowledgeable advice than mine..... mine is what I would do.... perhaps not what Fatbelly or Sourcrates would advise
    DFW Nerd No. 1484 LBM 07/01/15 Debt was £95k I'm driving it down
    £1k emergency fund (member #84) £1k/£1k
    • January2015
    • By January2015 7th Jul 18, 12:54 PM
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    • 5,364 Thanks
    January2015
    Following on from my last post, I've Googled and a letter giving consent to share information about your account should be good enough. For example, write a letter and include the following information:
    I give Consent to Share information about my account number xxxxxxx in writing or verbally, e.g. telephone, with the following person:

    Their full name
    Their full address and post code
    Their date of birth
    Their relationship to you
    A password, which you should choose and give to them
    A date, until which the consent to share is valid (or, specify if the date is indefinite)
    The basis for this was 'lifted' from Student Loans website, but I think if you have that information then they have sufficient information to carry out a data protection check, but you are not committing to signing anything like the commitments required by the form they sent you.
    DFW Nerd No. 1484 LBM 07/01/15 Debt was £95k I'm driving it down
    £1k emergency fund (member #84) £1k/£1k
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 7th Jul 18, 2:41 PM
    • 15,305 Posts
    • 14,394 Thanks
    sourcrates
    Am I right to be paranoid about this letter?

    https://imgur.com/a/9HkhzQ4

    All we wanted was for Vanquis to talk to me about my wifes account via email, and she has given permission on the phone but they say it's not good enough and have sent the following form.

    But part of me is very vary about it, as it seems to be saying I'm an additional user and bound by the terms and conditions, if I signed it, couldn't they then argue as I'm bound to the terms and conditions, it's now a joint debt (hence they could get a charging order)?

    Or am I worrying about nothing?

    Many thanks
    Originally posted by Iwanttobefree

    I would not sign that form.


    You are under no obligation to do so, but by doing so, you become an authorised user on the account, and theoretically could be chased for non payment, a debt collector may read it that way, you do not want to be giving them any more ammunition, if they wont speak to you, so what, best not to speak to them at all anyway.


    Do everything in writing, or as you say by email, they do not know who is typing on the keyboard, use your imagination, and stay off the phone.


    End of that particular problem :


    Iwanttobefree 1

    Vanquis 0
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • Iwanttobefree
    • By Iwanttobefree 11th Jul 18, 5:01 PM
    • 1,509 Posts
    • 3,765 Thanks
    Iwanttobefree
    Part of an email to Lowell

    Thanks for getting back to me.

    Creation told me in their letters that they sold their accounts to you, not that you were managing them on their behalf?
    Lowells response

    Good Afternoon,

    Thanks for your email.

    We did purchase the Creation accounts, however we have now returned them to Creation so you should contact them directly about this and they will be able to help you further.
    So they can buy then change their mind?
    I went to the doctor the other day, Lady Doctor, She says

    "We've got your test results back, we know what it is.

    You've got beating heart disease" Howard Devoto 2009
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