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  • FIRST POST
    • Iwanttobefree
    • By Iwanttobefree 10th Feb 18, 4:26 PM
    • 1,303Posts
    • 3,296Thanks
    Iwanttobefree
    What happens when I cant pay?
    • #1
    • 10th Feb 18, 4:26 PM
    What happens when I cant pay? 10th Feb 18 at 4:26 PM
    Hi am on a DMP and owe about 22K to 10 different creditors (unsecured debts) and have been on it for a few years.

    I used to have 186 a month to share between them, but I have failed my medical to get ESA support and have just also failed my tribunal appeal.

    However both my physio and my GP say I must not work and my GP is signing me off indefinitely.

    The outcome of this means that as my wife works more than about 25 hours at minimum wage, I will get zero benefits, meaning we are 109 a week worse off.

    Until our mortgage finishes in about 7 years, we simply can no longer afford to pay them any more than 1.

    In 7 years they can have 300 between them.

    So what happens now?

    Sorry if I sound a bit blunt, am on the verge of simply giving up, I cant take much more of this stress.
    I went to the doctor the other day, Lady Doctor, She says

    "We've got your test results back, we know what it is.

    You've got beating heart disease" Howard Devoto 2009
Page 2
    • Iwanttobefree
    • By Iwanttobefree 12th Feb 18, 9:18 PM
    • 1,303 Posts
    • 3,296 Thanks
    Iwanttobefree
    RE Creation Finance: I'm assuming that you still have the slips from the Post Office to prove that you sent your letters by recorded delivery? If so, have you thought about writing to your MP about how you have been treated by the Ombudsman? He/she should be able to persue it further for you, especially if you are able to send copies of the proofs and letters as well. Or perhaps catch him/her at one of their constituency surgeries ( library might be able to advise as to when and where these are held, or look online.)

    I have to admit, MPs vary in how efficient they are, and I wouldn't want to raise your hopes up unduly, On the otherhand, you never know, they might just be able to sort things out for you. The worst that can happen is that you get the parliamentary equivalent of a 'Dear John' letter.

    But only if you feel physically well enough to do it.
    Originally posted by CapricornLass
    No, I din't have the slips. The letters were regarding other issues but also had me putting in there only to deal in writing.

    I kept them for a few months, but from what was said both by me and by them, it was obvious they had received them, hence didn't see the point of keeping them, a lesson I have learnt.

    I contacted the post office but they reuse numbers after a year and cant track older ones.

    My MP is useless unfortunately, contacting him is a complete waste of time (Brandon Lewis). I contacted him not long after he had won his seat about issues with the NHS dealing with my CFS/ME, after not hearing back I contacted him again got a response from his assistant saying they were looking into it. I never did hear back.

    Then last year I contacted him about my experience with my ESA Mandatory reconsideration, I included an email I had received from the DWP and an explanation of why they were talking rubbish.

    His assistant did respond by including a comment from the DWP (which was an exact copy of the email I sent him in the first place), followed by him saying that if I wasn't happy, I could always consider doing a Mandatory reconsideration (which was what I was contacting him about in the first place).

    It was blatantly obvious he hadn't bothered to read my letter properly and it shows what a complete waste of time contacting him is (I am not alone in thinking this about him) .

    Compare that with the previous 3 times I've had to contact an MP, once 26 years ago when I lived in Guildford, where the MP invited me to his hose for a cuppa to discus in depth my problem, and twice to Brandon Lewis's predecessor.

    The first time was also about my CFS/ME, the MP (Tony Wright) contacted me very quickly taking a real interest, asking for more details and telling me how he's involved with some panel to do with looking into the problems with CFS/ME

    The second time I needed to contact Tony was the student finance messed up my daughters uni finance and things were getting to crunch time. I emailed him one day and within 48 hrs, his assistant phoned us up to say he had phoned Student Finance on our behalf and had sorted the problem and the loan was now authorized (this was after about 30 fruitless phonecalls to them from my wife)

    Normally I would have happily written to my MP, but there really really isn't any point with the current one.
    I went to the doctor the other day, Lady Doctor, She says

    "We've got your test results back, we know what it is.

    You've got beating heart disease" Howard Devoto 2009
    • Iwanttobefree
    • By Iwanttobefree 12th Feb 18, 9:19 PM
    • 1,303 Posts
    • 3,296 Thanks
    Iwanttobefree
    I have read all of your posts and have 'migrated' from the Benefits forum to here.

    I have to agree with the last poster (January2015) that you should concentrate on getting your finances sorted - i.e to increase your income and cut down on your expenditure and the best advice will come from this forum.

    You have to accept that you are not entitled to any Universal Credit because of your wife working and, at the moment, you are not fit for work.

    From a benefits point of view you could investigate PIP and I would recommend getting some help from CAB or a welfare specialist to make an application. If this is impossible then there is a good guide here:

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/help-with-your-claim/fill-in-form/

    Personally having read about your outgoings I would think it would be helpful to post a SOA (others will tell you how)

    You could then focus on reducing your expenditure (if this is possible)

    I have every sympathy for you but as you have said many times we do not know you and how your illnesses affect you. We cannot really help you with applying for jobs because of this and, to be honest, it only makes you angrier when people offer suggestions because, as you say, 'they do not know you'.

    By posting on these other forums you are becoming increasingly stressed so please take a rest from those forums and concentrate on your finances.
    Originally posted by pmlindyloo
    Thanks. I will sort out an up to date statement of affairs (and expect to be told off )
    I went to the doctor the other day, Lady Doctor, She says

    "We've got your test results back, we know what it is.

    You've got beating heart disease" Howard Devoto 2009
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 12th Feb 18, 10:35 PM
    • 12,161 Posts
    • 9,198 Thanks
    fatbelly
    Thanks. I will sort out an up to date statement of affairs (and expect to be told off )
    Originally posted by Iwanttobefree
    Constructive comments, surely!

    Also, I agree with you re Brandon Lewis. He'll probably be pm someday.
    • Iwanttobefree
    • By Iwanttobefree 21st Mar 18, 10:43 PM
    • 1,303 Posts
    • 3,296 Thanks
    Iwanttobefree
    Well it's taken me until today to finally get my statement of affairs sorted out, have been too stressed and depressed before.

    Debts:
    Creation Finance (me): 5,436
    Creation Finance (wife): 5,882
    Creation Finance (wife): 4,326
    Vanquish CC (me): 2,262.15
    Vanquish CC (wife): 2,320
    Fredrikson (Capital One) (me): 2,559
    Barclaycard (wife) : 3,761
    NCO Shop Direct (wife) : 947.62
    1st Credit (J D Williams) (me) : 441.15
    Argos Card Services (wife) : 442.18

    Total: 28, 377.40

    Income Monthly
    Wife: 1,576 ****
    Me, unable to work due to health and not currently entitled to any benefits.

    **** that's my wife's last years income divided by 12. She's a self employed mobile hairdresser and some months like Easter and Christmas are a lot busier than say January.

    2 adults no children

    Monthly Outgoings
    Housing
    Mortgage: 484.42
    Water: 38.95
    Council Tax: 133
    Electricity 124 (all electric house, economy 7 storage heaters)

    Household Services
    Building and contents Insurance : 26.08
    Landline, two mobiles, internet: 79.10
    TV License : 12.37
    Life Insurance: 36.05 (needed for mortgage)
    Repairs : 0 Cant afford anything for this at the moment

    Motoring
    Spares/Servicing: 0 Cant afford anything for this at the moment
    Road Tax: 13.12
    Insurance: 45.07
    Petrol and Parking: 190

    Food and Housekeeping
    Foot, Toiletries, Cleaning : 430 (I have to follow special diet)
    Meals at work: 0 Cant afford anything for this at the moment
    Pet food and insurance: 59 (dog on meds for life so cant change)
    Clothing and Footware : 0 Cant afford anything for this at the moment

    MISC Goods and Services
    Dentist: 5
    Prescriptions: 0 (I now get free prescriptions due to illness

    Personal and Leisure
    Hobbies and Entertainment: 0 Cant afford anything for this at the moment
    Emergencies : 0 Cant afford anything for this at the moment

    Other Costs
    Loan from family: 0 They don't need the money at present but we want to pay it back at some point, owe about 5000

    Total monthly outgoings = 1,676.16
    Total monthly income = 1,576.00
    Leaves us with minus 100.16

    That is the outgoings we are sending the creditors, it's 100% true (not put on it amount owed to family) except I've missed one thing off, my Gym membership that costs 35 a month as I don't think they would understand

    I need it for health reasons, I have to go swimming two to three times a week for my back problems on physos advice, and it's cheaper belonging to my local gym in a holiday resort than paying to use the local council pool two or three times a week. Local pool is 4.60 a time which if I used three times a week would come to 59.80 a month and if I used just twice a week would come to 39.80 a month. Whereas the local holiday resort has two pools, sauna, steam room , gym etc all included in the 35 price, plus there's certain times kids aren't allowed in one of the pools.

    Our dog insurance, we actually get paid by Petplan in that the amount we pay them every month is far less than they pay out every month, and it's a for life plan (where as cheaper plans only cover a condition for up to say 12 months) . As my dog is on meds and injections for life, we cant even consider changing to any other company as they wouldn't cover him for existing conditions.

    Car insurance is with Direct line, ours covers both of us to drive, my wife is listed as the main driver even though the insurance policy and car is mine, and we both earn no claim bonuses on it, meaning that if it came to a point I could no longer drive (or I died) my wife has the policy with full no claims. We also need a good policy due to her work, this one guarantees us a loan car etc. I know there are cheaper policies, but they simply don't provide the cover we require.

    So that's where we are at.

    Last week my wife didn't feel well, went to the GP and had very high blood pressure.

    Yesterday she felt worse so went again and her blood pressure was 200/115

    Today against my advice, she stupidly tried to go to work saying we need the money and her first client sent her home after she had been sick twice.

    I 100% know that it's money problems that is causing her stress,

    The only reason we are above water at the moment is that I got a 1300 PPI refund a couple of months ago, that's the only way we are currently paying everything.

    When that runs out (end of July) we will be around 100 short a month depending on wifes earnings. Or possibly sooner as she wont be able to go to work tomorrow either.

    My wife would simply not consider selling the house, 7 years and we are free from the mortgage (well we will have a tiny 2nd mortgage left for another few years)

    I said to my GP last week that I will have to try and find a job for about 15 hrs a week. She said "well it's going to be very difficult for you to manage it "

    and we have the worry of our debts.

    If we stop paying, will they send bailiffs round to take our few possessions away?

    What happens if they take us to court and we cant afford any money to pay a CCJ

    Could they force us into bankruptcy

    etc etc etc all worries that are not helping either of us get any better and is likely to lead to my wife having serious health problems and neither of us being able to work, then we will be in trouble.

    And what if the car goes wrong, the water heater etc etc etc

    Sorry for my tone, feeling a little down now I've typed all this.
    Last edited by Iwanttobefree; 21-03-2018 at 10:53 PM.
    I went to the doctor the other day, Lady Doctor, She says

    "We've got your test results back, we know what it is.

    You've got beating heart disease" Howard Devoto 2009
    • Fedupofdebt
    • By Fedupofdebt 26th Mar 18, 1:13 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Fedupofdebt
    I'm sure no court would force you into bankruptcy or force you to sell your house. Communication is still key and keeping every bit of correspondence. A lady I knew got taken to court over debts and the judge stated to the creditors "she has offered what she can pay. Why have you not accepted?". Your situation is not one out of reckless living this is a situation out of your control. And some of these programmes on TV make the jump from missing payments to sheriffs of the court seem like a matter of days. I can't offer any real financial advice. But please you and your wife look after each other and talk to your doctor if these stress symptoms get worse. No financial situation is more important than your health xx
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 26th Mar 18, 1:54 PM
    • 13,709 Posts
    • 13,040 Thanks
    sourcrates
    Hi,

    Your income only just covers your essential, and non essential monthly bills, there is nothing left in your budget to pay any of the debts with.

    Stark choice unfortunately, either trim some fat from your outgoings, enough to offer each creditor something on a debt management plan per month, or you will have to consider bankruptcy.

    Are all your debts non essential unsecured debts ? if so then you should just be paying 1 per month each to them.

    If any are secured debts, you simply do not have the money in your budget to pay them.
    The Debt collection process takes time, no one can just send a bailiff, court action has to happen first, you must then default on the CCJ only then can a bailiff be considered, and they can easily be countered by not allowing them access, they cannot break in.

    All that is a long way off at present, but you do need to take urgent, decisive action to stem this right now.
    Last edited by sourcrates; 26-03-2018 at 2:02 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • enthusiasticsaver
    • By enthusiasticsaver 26th Mar 18, 2:42 PM
    • 6,256 Posts
    • 12,385 Thanks
    enthusiasticsaver
    I think there is no leeway to pay your debtors so contact your DMP providers and tell them. Presumably none are secured? Are you doing the DMP through stepchange?

    Your wife's blood pressure is very high and being on her feet will not help. This may be one instance where you might have to investigate if you were better off on benefits given both of your health and your wife's erratic income. Can you restructure your mortgage? How old are you both?
    Debt free and mortgage free and early retiree. Living the dream

    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Mortgages and Endowments, Banking and Budgeting boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Pease remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • enthusiasticsaver
    • By enthusiasticsaver 26th Mar 18, 2:44 PM
    • 6,256 Posts
    • 12,385 Thanks
    enthusiasticsaver
    I think it is unlikely a Court would force a judgement on you in your circumstances. Your food bill is higher than expected for 2 people.
    Debt free and mortgage free and early retiree. Living the dream

    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Mortgages and Endowments, Banking and Budgeting boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Pease remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 26th Mar 18, 7:34 PM
    • 12,161 Posts
    • 9,198 Thanks
    fatbelly
    If we stop paying, will they send bailiffs round to take our few possessions away?

    What happens if they take us to court and we cant afford any money to pay a CCJ

    Could they force us into bankruptcy
    Originally posted by Iwanttobefree
    You clearly don't have the money to pay them so stop. They are non-priority debts. If you get a court claim post here for advice, which if we can't defend it will be to offer 1. If you get a statutory demand (rare as hen's teeth), post here. They won't be able to force a sale of a jointly owned property because of a solely owned debt.

    I have a client in the same situation as you. He stopped paying 5.5 years ago. He has one ccj which he pays. He could have let it go to a charging order. Unless all the others (maybe 8 of them) start a court claim soon, they will be out of time (6 years since last acknowledgement or payment). It's difficult enough to pay the mortgage and all the priority bills.
    • Iwanttobefree
    • By Iwanttobefree 27th Mar 18, 2:11 PM
    • 1,303 Posts
    • 3,296 Thanks
    Iwanttobefree
    Many thanks all.

    So who is right? sourcrates who implies I need to offer something or consider bankruptcy, or enthusiasticsaver and fatbelly who imply I'm unlikely to be declared bankrupt and to stop paying them?

    My main concern is, while they might not be able to force a sale on a jointly held house, what about if Creation tried to when my wife has two debts with them and I also have one debt?

    All debts are unsecured, I always presumed if a debt wasn't secured on your house, your house isn't in danger?

    My food bill is due to my diet. Unfortunately for health reasons I cant eat chicken (but can eat turkey), and I cant eat things like dried pasta, only fresh pasta.

    For example, 2 pints of normal milk is 80p, 4 pints 1.10, but my milk is 1.10 for 2 pints (well 1lt)

    Dried pasta is 61p for a 500g bag, fresh pasta 1.50 for the same amount etc etc etc and that pushes the food bill up loads.

    I was with Stepchange a few years ago, but when I had loads of problems with Creation and Step-change couldn't help me, hence I had to sort it out myself, on the advice of this forum, I started doing the DMP myself.

    I'm 54 and my wife is 52. We have our mortgage with the Halifax.

    We owe 45,453 (as of our statement in May 2017, based on that statement, it should be 41,456 in May 2018 statement)

    This consists of two mortgages
    26,644 (23,415 in May) 358.99 a month for another 6yrs 3 months from now.

    18,808 (18,041 in May) 125.43 a month for another 17 years from now.

    The original plan was to pay more into the second mortgage or carry on paying the same we are paying now when the first mortgage clears to pay it off quickly.

    6 years from now we will have 358 a month less outgoings. We do NOT want to loose our house (I think that would push my wife over the edge).

    So, what do I do now, do I write to all our creditors explaining me not being able to work, with the income/outcome in my earlier post and inform them that unfortunately until further notice, we cant pay them a penny, and take it from there?

    many thanks for all your help
    I went to the doctor the other day, Lady Doctor, She says

    "We've got your test results back, we know what it is.

    You've got beating heart disease" Howard Devoto 2009
    • Tarambor
    • By Tarambor 27th Mar 18, 4:54 PM
    • 2,674 Posts
    • 1,920 Thanks
    Tarambor
    OK so in earlier posts you say you can't work but would there be something you can do from home which you can use to generate income? I have a spinal injury, in 2008 it got so bad I was forced to stop working. 3 weeks in and I'm going mental from doing nothing so I took a look at what I was capable of, what skills I had and started to refurbish laptops and sell them on Ebay as a small business.

    At the time the government had the Return To Work Credit available to those on ESA to help support them going back to work or starting a small business which was 40 a week tax free for a year, I was able to apply for working tax credit and your income doesn't affect a DLA/PIP claim. Whilst I didn't make a lot my turnover was well into five figures and it gave me an income of a couple of hundred quid a week but it also gave me the flexibility to be able to work as and when I was able to. I did that for 5 years before being well enough to return to my normal job.
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 27th Mar 18, 6:32 PM
    • 12,161 Posts
    • 9,198 Thanks
    fatbelly
    Sourcrates may have missed that you own a house with a lot of equity (mortgage free in 7 years). You cannot declare bankruptcy or you will lose the house.

    Re forced bankruptcy (statutory demand) I work in debt advice and I haven't seen one for nearly ten years. Stop worrying about things that won't happen.

    Re token offers I admit I take a hard line on this. I think it's a rubbish strategy unless it's short-term with something else happening in a few months. Long term, it continually acknowledges the debt without paying it off. There's no evidence it stops court action it may even have the opposite effect.

    I said most of what I can say in post#5:

    You need to be putting a budget together to allow you to live as best you can on what is coming in. I would suggest you revisit a benefits checker like Turn2Us - you're on very low income and anything you can get, like council tax support, would help. You have nothing to lose by starting a PIP claim.
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 27th Mar 18, 7:51 PM
    • 13,709 Posts
    • 13,040 Thanks
    sourcrates
    Sourcrates may have missed that you own a house with a lot of equity (mortgage free in 7 years). You cannot declare bankruptcy or you will lose the house.

    Re forced bankruptcy (statutory demand) I work in debt advice and I haven't seen one for nearly ten years. Stop worrying about things that won't happen.

    Re token offers I admit I take a hard line on this. I think it's a rubbish strategy unless it's short-term with something else happening in a few months. Long term, it continually acknowledges the debt without paying it off. There's no evidence it stops court action it may even have the opposite effect.

    I said most of what I can say in post#5:
    Originally posted by fatbelly
    Sorry, just picked up on that.

    (Rather a long read)

    Obviously with such a short time left on the mortgage bankruptcy is the last thing you need, I was implying worst case scenario.

    I would go with the advice Fatbelly has given you, he is the expert in this area.
    Last edited by sourcrates; 27-03-2018 at 8:06 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • Iwanttobefree
    • By Iwanttobefree 29th Mar 18, 1:22 PM
    • 1,303 Posts
    • 3,296 Thanks
    Iwanttobefree
    Many many thanks everyone.

    One more piece of advice please.

    What should I put in a letter to them all? Obviously include income and outgoings.

    Do I just say that due to my inability to work, we simply have no money to pay them for the foreseeable future?

    Should i explain why I cant work or simply say I'm unable to work due to health reasons?

    probably wont be able to respond until next week as family home for Easter.

    Many thanks
    I went to the doctor the other day, Lady Doctor, She says

    "We've got your test results back, we know what it is.

    You've got beating heart disease" Howard Devoto 2009
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 29th Mar 18, 2:05 PM
    • 11,403 Posts
    • 13,289 Thanks
    pmlindyloo
    This is all so stressful for you both I am wondering if your wife could be persuaded to sell the house and release some equity to pay off your debts. It is a wrench to do this I know but sometimes making a decision and following up on it relieves the stress and pressure straight away.

    Of course I do not know whether this would be feasible as I don't know your circumstances and what kind of house you are living in now.

    And just one more possibility - have you got a spare bedroom which you could rent to a lodger? This would give you some leeway to continue with your DMP and you could use the rent a room scheme to avoid paying tax on the income.

    And don't forget to apply for PIP if you think you meet the criteria. Go to CAB and get some help with the application.
    • foxtrotoscar
    • By foxtrotoscar 29th Mar 18, 2:30 PM
    • 1,071 Posts
    • 1,631 Thanks
    foxtrotoscar
    Turkey meat can be as cheap as chicken. Making your own fresh pasta is not expensive either. I used to drink milk by the pint daily...I don't think I've drunk a pint in total so far this year. Make adjustments where you can.
    • smem18
    • By smem18 29th Mar 18, 4:43 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    smem18
    I had a look at your outgoings and can see you are really not spending on anything silly. The two areas that stood out for me were your electricity bill. 124 a month seems high to me - have you done a comparison on your tariff recently? Is your heating on full blast? Just wonder if there is a way you can reduce that.
    Secondly, your food bill. This is really high for two people. I know you say you have a special diet but is there absolutely no way you can save money there? You mention you can eat turkey but not chicken - chicken is usually more expensive anyway. Could you buy frozen in iceland instead of fresh? Could you try making your own pasta? Do you make your own sauces etc?

    Maybe this doesn't help but they were a couple of areas where I thought it looked like you might just be able to save.

    I do agree with the other posters about selling your house - I don't know how large your house is or how much its worth but could you downsize and release some equity?

    Its quite clear you can't afford to pay your debts right now so I agree with others that this isn't even the biggest issue as they cant take what you don't have. Definitely write to them asap.
    • Iwanttobefree
    • By Iwanttobefree 3rd Apr 18, 11:12 AM
    • 1,303 Posts
    • 3,296 Thanks
    Iwanttobefree
    All electric house with storage heaters, immersion heater.

    Storage heaters only on overnight.

    Immersion heater only on for an hour or so overnight.

    I've looked at various other companies, but mine still always comes back cheaper (pre-payment meter)
    I went to the doctor the other day, Lady Doctor, She says

    "We've got your test results back, we know what it is.

    You've got beating heart disease" Howard Devoto 2009
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