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    • gjfromuk
    • By gjfromuk 10th Feb 18, 1:40 PM
    • 3Posts
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    gjfromuk
    Insurance higher despite accidents not our fault
    • #1
    • 10th Feb 18, 1:40 PM
    Insurance higher despite accidents not our fault 10th Feb 18 at 1:40 PM
    Does anyone know if there are any campaigns about the practice of Insurance companies increasing insurance premiums of motorists even when accidents are not their fault.
    I think it's unlikely the average motorist know this - did anyone on here, because you wouldn't know unless you had submitted without declaring any accidents? Mine was going to be increased by over 50%!!!

    Elephant (part of Admiral) quoted me 470 online, but it wouldn't take payment online. A telephone call revealed they said I had 3 undeclared accidents within last 5 years.

    I was named driver on my wife's insurance, my wife was the driver on 2 of those accidents, but most critically, NONE of those 3 accidents were down to negligence from us as drivers... completely blameless.

    When I pointed this out on the call to them, she insurance advisor told me, "Statistically, if a driver has an accident - even if it is not their fault, they are more likely to have an accident in the future that will be their fault."

    When i pointed out that was grossly unfair to individual drivers to be penalised by a generalised statistic and surely the Insurance company recovered their losses from the parties that are to blame.

    Then she reeled out the most infuriating response, "That's the way insurance works". At that point I just said 'unbelievable!' and put the phone down. I did not insure with them!

    I have just logged a formal complaint as despite the unfairness of making innocent motorists pay for others crashing into them, I consider a 50% plus increase to be excessive.

    Once I get a response I will be submitting the complaint to the Financial Ombudsman - but they only deal with individual complaints. They advised I need to contact the Financial Regulatory Conduct Authority.

    So I will do that, but I am looking for others who would have the same objections so that it has some gravity... I've got to think every motorist would feel the same as me!?
Page 1
    • missile
    • By missile 10th Feb 18, 2:15 PM
    • 9,479 Posts
    • 4,715 Thanks
    missile
    • #2
    • 10th Feb 18, 2:15 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Feb 18, 2:15 PM
    I would suggest most MSE forum members will be well aware. There have been numerous posts highlighting those who have a no fault accident represent a higher risk and base premium will likely be increased.

    I had 3 undeclared accidents within last 5 years.
    Why should my premiums increase to cover those.
    "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." ~ Mahatma Gandhi
    Ride hard or stay home
    • Cash-Strapped.T32
    • By Cash-Strapped.T32 10th Feb 18, 2:24 PM
    • 487 Posts
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    Cash-Strapped.T32
    • #3
    • 10th Feb 18, 2:24 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Feb 18, 2:24 PM
    I don't wish to come across as one of those argumentative posters you sometimes see, but isn't it obvious to anyone who has insurance that declaring an incident (whether fault or not) will increase future premiums?
    • DUTR
    • By DUTR 10th Feb 18, 3:04 PM
    • 11,317 Posts
    • 6,483 Thanks
    DUTR
    • #4
    • 10th Feb 18, 3:04 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Feb 18, 3:04 PM
    I don't wish to come across as one of those argumentative posters you sometimes see, but isn't it obvious to anyone who has insurance that declaring an incident (whether fault or not) will increase future premiums?
    Originally posted by Cash-Strapped.T32
    You don't but premiums do not always go up, however readers need to be aware that it is a no claim discount not a no blame incident, so in effect you best get in the habit of avoiding an incident even if it were to be the other persons fault.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 10th Feb 18, 3:36 PM
    • 12,439 Posts
    • 9,747 Thanks
    unholyangel
    • #5
    • 10th Feb 18, 3:36 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Feb 18, 3:36 PM
    When I pointed this out on the call to them, she insurance advisor told me, "Statistically, if a driver has an accident - even if it is not their fault, they are more likely to have an accident in the future that will be their fault."

    When i pointed out that was grossly unfair to individual drivers to be penalised by a generalised statistic and surely the Insurance company recovered their losses from the parties that are to blame.
    Originally posted by gjfromuk
    Thats all insurance is - calculating your risk based on statistical analysis. Your personal driving history is reflected in your no claims bonus.

    Side note: make sure you are declaring these incidents to any prospective insurers else increased premiums may be the least of your worries.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 10th Feb 18, 4:54 PM
    • 2,261 Posts
    • 1,531 Thanks
    Tom99
    • #6
    • 10th Feb 18, 4:54 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Feb 18, 4:54 PM
    You could make the same augment in favour of all 17 year olds, just because some are a boy racers does not mean I am.
    I don't think the two claims where you were a named driver should count though, since you were neither the driver nor the policy holder.
    • Aretnap
    • By Aretnap 10th Feb 18, 5:41 PM
    • 2,976 Posts
    • 2,490 Thanks
    Aretnap
    • #7
    • 10th Feb 18, 5:41 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Feb 18, 5:41 PM
    If your car is stolen that's not your fault, but it will still affect your premium next year.

    And if there a rash of car thefts or accidents in your area that's not your fault either, but it will still affect your premium...

    If you're young and inexperienced or old and doddery those things aren't your fault, but guess what? They still have an impact on your risk to an insurer.

    Your car insurance premium is not supposed to be a moral judgement on you as an individual or a punishment for past misdeeds - it's just a company's cold hearted estimate of the risk you pose to them. If you don't like it shop around - other companies may take a different view. Though to be honest with three accidents in three years between you I sort of see why you might look "accident-prone" regardless of who got the blame for individual incidents. That's more than I've managed in my life.
    • Aretnap
    • By Aretnap 10th Feb 18, 5:47 PM
    • 2,976 Posts
    • 2,490 Thanks
    Aretnap
    • #8
    • 10th Feb 18, 5:47 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Feb 18, 5:47 PM
    I don't think the two claims where you were a named driver should count though, since you were neither the driver nor the policy holder.
    Originally posted by Tom99
    If he's only insuring the car for himself to drive them these incidents should not need to be declared - he will have been asked if he has had any accidents or made any claims in the last 3 years, and he neither had the accidents not made the claims (assuming his wife was the policyholder and the driver).

    However if he is also insuring his wife as a named driver on his car then he should have declared them as he will also have been asked about her driving history.
    • rudekid48
    • By rudekid48 10th Feb 18, 11:33 PM
    • 2,082 Posts
    • 3,565 Thanks
    rudekid48
    • #9
    • 10th Feb 18, 11:33 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Feb 18, 11:33 PM
    Complaining to the FOS because an insurer charged you more after you lied, sorry, failed to declare accidents? What a great use of their time that will be.
    All matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.
    • cjdavies
    • By cjdavies 10th Feb 18, 11:43 PM
    • 3,364 Posts
    • 3,593 Thanks
    cjdavies
    When I pointed this out on the call to them, she insurance advisor told me, "Statistically, if a driver has an accident - even if it is not their fault, they are more likely to have an accident in the future that will be their fault."
    Originally posted by gjfromuk
    Makes no sense to me either, mine was parked outside my house!
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 11th Feb 18, 2:08 AM
    • 1,677 Posts
    • 1,136 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    Does anyone know if there are any campaigns about the practice of Insurance companies increasing insurance premiums of motorists even when accidents are not their fault.
    I think it's unlikely the average motorist know this - did anyone on here, because you wouldn't know unless you had submitted without declaring any accidents? Mine was going to be increased by over 50%!!!

    Elephant (part of Admiral) quoted me 470 online, but it wouldn't take payment online. A telephone call revealed they said I had 3 undeclared accidents within last 5 years.

    I was named driver on my wife's insurance, my wife was the driver on 2 of those accidents, but most critically, NONE of those 3 accidents were down to negligence from us as drivers... completely blameless.

    When I pointed this out on the call to them, she insurance advisor told me, "Statistically, if a driver has an accident - even if it is not their fault, they are more likely to have an accident in the future that will be their fault."

    When i pointed out that was grossly unfair to individual drivers to be penalised by a generalised statistic and surely the Insurance company recovered their losses from the parties that are to blame.

    Then she reeled out the most infuriating response, "That's the way insurance works". At that point I just said 'unbelievable!' and put the phone down. I did not insure with them!

    I have just logged a formal complaint as despite the unfairness of making innocent motorists pay for others crashing into them, I consider a 50% plus increase to be excessive.

    Once I get a response I will be submitting the complaint to the Financial Ombudsman - but they only deal with individual complaints. They advised I need to contact the Financial Regulatory Conduct Authority.

    So I will do that, but I am looking for others who would have the same objections so that it has some gravity... I've got to think every motorist would feel the same as me!?
    Originally posted by gjfromuk
    Have you told your present insurer (if they asked - and they always do in my experience) about these non fault accidents?

    I'm guessing you haven't. In which case, good luck if your car gets written off and they do a bit of research. Remember that insurance companies don't make money by paying out. They would cancel your
    cover, and chase you for reimbursement for any third party claims against you.
    • vikingaero
    • By vikingaero 11th Feb 18, 7:00 AM
    • 10,398 Posts
    • 13,089 Thanks
    vikingaero

    Elephant (part of Admiral) quoted me 470 online, but it wouldn't take payment online. A telephone call revealed they said I had 3 undeclared accidents within last 5 years.
    Originally posted by gjfromuk

    Therein lies your problem. Originally you were probably price led and went for one of the bottom feeders in the Insurance market - not just Elephant, but the whole Admiral Group.

    I presume you have taken out cover with Elephant, they've trawled the CUE database for inaccurate declarations and sought to increase your premiums. They've essentially got you over a barrel.

    Also did you declare any cover for additional accessories/modifications and if so are you aware of Admiral Groups Standard Parts Replacement Clause?

    On the flip side most of us work for commercial organisations that seek to maximise revenue and profit - so does elephant.
    The man without a signature.
    • custardy
    • By custardy 11th Feb 18, 7:20 AM
    • 33,559 Posts
    • 28,513 Thanks
    custardy
    Think about it this way. if you have watched dash cam videos you will see plenty of accidents where the blame isnt clear or the vehicle who actually caused it isnt the one who will be blamed from an insurance point of view.
    Unless you do mega miles then 3 accidents is a lot in 5 years,could driving style be a contributory factor?
    Thats how insurers look at it.
    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 11th Feb 18, 7:23 AM
    • 13,581 Posts
    • 8,624 Thanks
    arcon5
    So you had one of the accidents and didnt declare it when applying for insurance? Thats how i read it, in which case your lucky the payment didnt go through as youd now be looking at a cancelled policy and even higher premiums.

    Even if incidents wasnt your fault doesnt mean your not a greater risk... could be that you live in a high risk area or that your not a defensive driver.
    • takman
    • By takman 11th Feb 18, 9:09 AM
    • 3,398 Posts
    • 2,998 Thanks
    takman
    Makes no sense to me either, mine was parked outside my house!
    Originally posted by cjdavies
    How does it not make sense? Your car was involved in an accident when it was parked outside your house. I bet you will continue to park your car there so there is a higher chance it will happen again because it has already happened once.
    • marlot
    • By marlot 11th Feb 18, 9:44 AM
    • 3,499 Posts
    • 2,614 Thanks
    marlot
    ..."Statistically, if a driver has an accident - even if it is not their fault, they are more likely to have an accident in the future that will be their fault."...
    Originally posted by gjfromuk
    Yes, a few people at work seem to have more than their fair share 'non-fault' accidents. But very few accidents are entirely down to one party.

    I've had a few cases where I've nearly caused an accident, but the other driver has taken avoiding action. And I'm very grateful to them.

    I've also had a few cases where I've seen an incident unfolding, and held back/given extra room etc to avoid an accident. I could have insisted on my 'rights' or my 'right of way', but I'd rather not be in an accident.

    I've now been over 30 years and close to half a million miles since my last accident. But not feeling arrogant - just grateful to the people who gave me space when I made a mistake and happy that I was able to do the same for others.

    Returning to the topic ... on balance I think the insurance position isn't unreasonable.
    • dacouch
    • By dacouch 11th Feb 18, 12:53 PM
    • 20,493 Posts
    • 12,697 Thanks
    dacouch
    Complaining to the FOS because an insurer charged you more after you lied, sorry, failed to declare accidents? What a great use of their time that will be.
    Originally posted by rudekid48
    In addition the Ombudsman will not entertain a complaint about the pricing policy of an Insurer.

    If the OP does not like the way Admiral price their cover, they are welcome to use any other Insurer
    • iolanthe07
    • By iolanthe07 11th Feb 18, 2:35 PM
    • 5,031 Posts
    • 4,725 Thanks
    iolanthe07
    Many people just don't seem to understand that it is a no claim discount, not a no blame discount. Though three accidents in five years would throw up all sorts of red flags, and insurance companies really have a down on people who don't declare accidents, wherever fault lies (and that is rarely 100% certain).
    I used to think that good grammar is important, but now I know that good wine is importanter.
    • Rotor
    • By Rotor 11th Feb 18, 2:47 PM
    • 926 Posts
    • 1,037 Thanks
    Rotor
    Have people successfully claimed for the increase in insurance after a no fault claim?

    Under the law a person should be put back into the financial position they were in before the accident and suffering higher insurance bills is not being put in the same position
    Finding an exception is NOT the same as disproving the rule.
    • oldagetraveller
    • By oldagetraveller 11th Feb 18, 2:48 PM
    • 3,121 Posts
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    oldagetraveller
    Makes no sense to me either, mine was parked outside my house!
    Originally posted by cjdavies
    If it were parked outside on a road rather than on your driveway (offroad) then that would up the risk of someone driving into it. No doubt result in a higher risk and higher premium.
    One of the questions usually asked during application requires information as to where the car is parked a. during the day and b. at night.
    Did you hear about the politician who had a backside transplant? It rejected him.
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