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  • FIRST POST
    • Carl6791
    • By Carl6791 10th Feb 18, 7:07 AM
    • 5Posts
    • 5Thanks
    Carl6791
    New pcn. Help please!
    • #1
    • 10th Feb 18, 7:07 AM
    New pcn. Help please! 10th Feb 18 at 7:07 AM
    Hi there, I got a new PCN dated 7th of February but I panicked and sent two emails already before researching on this website. I have enclosed the emails below:-

    My question is this, have I screwed up in sending this information to them? I see now there is a copy and paste template on this website is it now too late to use it?

    The company is Horizon and it was for parking at Sainsbury's.

    Email 1:-
    appeal@horizonparking.co.uk;

    Hi there

    I'd like to contest the parking charge notice that you have sent to me dated 7th of February stating that I was in your car park on the 3rd of February for 7 hours 5 minutes.!

    Because of the offer that Sainsbury's had on where you spend £10 and then get vouchers, I have gone in there at 2 o'clock and bought fuel to get a voucher. Then I left for my colleagues house for the afternoon. After leaving to go home the same day I went to Sainsbury's again and bought an additional £10 worth of fuel plus £11 worth of shopping this would have been around 9 o'clock.

    I can produce credit card statements to prove it. Please reply as soon as possible as this is a very stressful and I'm going through a divorce currently.

    Best regards
    Carl

    Email 2:-
    This was sent before I'd finished writing it in error.!!
    So,! Without Prejudice I'm refusing to pay this parking charge notice you have sent to me.
Page 1
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Feb 18, 8:00 AM
    • 17,572 Posts
    • 27,779 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #2
    • 10th Feb 18, 8:00 AM
    • #2
    • 10th Feb 18, 8:00 AM
    Have they replied with a POPLA Code yet?

    Have you complained to the Sainsbury's manager (not Customer Services) - go and see him/her.

    You're seemingly the victim of the infamous 'double-dip' - first entry recorded, first exit and second entry ignored, second exit recorded.

    Have a read of this to get an understanding of this serious flaw (time and time again) in the ANPR systems employed by PPC world.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5550336
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Carl6791
    • By Carl6791 10th Feb 18, 9:10 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Carl6791
    • #3
    • 10th Feb 18, 9:10 AM
    • #3
    • 10th Feb 18, 9:10 AM
    Hi and thanks very much for your reply. As of yet I've not had a reply from my email, this was only sent late last night.

    I will be going into the Sainsbury's store today and I will ask to see the manager, in the meantime I will read through some of the links you've sent me.

    Is there anything else I should be doing right now? Thanks in advance.

    Carl
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 10th Feb 18, 9:31 AM
    • 9,203 Posts
    • 8,968 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #4
    • 10th Feb 18, 9:31 AM
    • #4
    • 10th Feb 18, 9:31 AM
    This is a well known scam, it is called double dipping. Read some cases.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5550336

    They are calling you a liar. Complain robustly to you MP, but watch this first

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    If this were to go to court, you might consider a counter claim for invasion of privacy, and/or harassment,
    Last edited by The Deep; 10-02-2018 at 9:39 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • ampersand
    • By ampersand 10th Feb 18, 9:40 AM
    • 8,426 Posts
    • 32,711 Thanks
    ampersand
    • #5
    • 10th Feb 18, 9:40 AM
    • #5
    • 10th Feb 18, 9:40 AM
    In conjunction with TD's advice/links, read prankie's piece from last Sunday:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/
    Last edited by ampersand; 10-02-2018 at 9:49 AM.
    CAP[UK]for FREE EXPERT DEBT&BUDGET HELP:01274 760720, freephone0800 328 0006
    'People don't want much. They want: "Someone to love, somewhere to live, somewhere to work and something to hope for."
    Norman Kirk, NZLP- Prime Minister, 1972
    ***JE SUIS CHARLIE***
    'It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere' François-Marie AROUET


    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Feb 18, 9:46 AM
    • 17,572 Posts
    • 27,779 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #6
    • 10th Feb 18, 9:46 AM
    • #6
    • 10th Feb 18, 9:46 AM
    Hi and thanks very much for your reply. As of yet I've not had a reply from my email, this was only sent late last night.

    I will be going into the Sainsbury's store today and I will ask to see the manager, in the meantime I will read through some of the links you've sent me.

    Is there anything else I should be doing right now? Thanks in advance.

    Carl
    Originally posted by Carl6791
    Other than plenty of reading, especially the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3 to prepare your thinking for your POPLA appeal (should it get that far), you are doing the right things.

    I note you threw a 'Without Prejudice' line into your email. I take it you are aware of the consequences of a WP caveat in your correspondence?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 10th Feb 18, 9:50 AM
    • 36,622 Posts
    • 82,942 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #7
    • 10th Feb 18, 9:50 AM
    • #7
    • 10th Feb 18, 9:50 AM
    As above, read up on the scam, complain long and loud to the manager, taking your receipts/redacted bank/CC statements, and tell him/her you and your family will shop elsewhere if this scam ticket from a rouge operator (MPs' words) targeting genuine customers is not cancelled.
    Vent on Fakebook if sainsbugs have such a thing, and complain to your MP.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • ampersand
    • By ampersand 10th Feb 18, 9:55 AM
    • 8,426 Posts
    • 32,711 Thanks
    ampersand
    • #8
    • 10th Feb 18, 9:55 AM
    • #8
    • 10th Feb 18, 9:55 AM
    'Rogue'? - or simply red-faced at their own temerity :-)))
    With crapita seeking to sell off parking lie, let's hope they join carillion in the red/sold off/foreclosed.
    CAP[UK]for FREE EXPERT DEBT&BUDGET HELP:01274 760720, freephone0800 328 0006
    'People don't want much. They want: "Someone to love, somewhere to live, somewhere to work and something to hope for."
    Norman Kirk, NZLP- Prime Minister, 1972
    ***JE SUIS CHARLIE***
    'It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere' François-Marie AROUET


    • Carl6791
    • By Carl6791 10th Feb 18, 10:12 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Carl6791
    • #9
    • 10th Feb 18, 10:12 AM
    • #9
    • 10th Feb 18, 10:12 AM
    The without prejudice email was sent after the first email, hope this still counts? And to be honest with you I don't know what it means I'm not all up on the law. I just seen some where in the forum that they should be written.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 10th Feb 18, 10:17 AM
    • 9,203 Posts
    • 8,968 Thanks
    The Deep
    And to be honest with you I don't know what it means I'm not all up on the law. I just seen some where in the forum that they should be written.


    Why did you not google it? You cannot brick it in court you know, their barrister would tear you to shreds.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Carl6791
    • By Carl6791 10th Feb 18, 10:27 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Carl6791
    Well this is the first time I've ever had a fine for anything in my life so I just panicked. I'm beginning to wonder if it's even worth fighting it it seems very complicated and frightening.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Feb 18, 10:29 AM
    • 17,572 Posts
    • 27,779 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    The without prejudice email was sent after the first email, hope this still counts?
    If you mean 'counts' in terms of your position in regard to the charge from Horizon, then I guess it still 'counts', but will have no impact on their decision.

    Caveating documents 'WP' means that the documents could not be used against you in court.

    For example, if you offered £30 to Horizon on a WP basis, if Horizon refused and continued to court chasing the full £100, they could not show the Judge your letter as some evidence of your tacit culpability.

    Just be careful when dealing with anything potentially 'legal', and which could end in court, in randomly throwing in WP caveats.

    No harm done. Don't fret about the charge, this can be easily beaten - and you'll get plenty of help here. Horizon are rollovers!
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 10th Feb 18, 12:32 PM
    • 9,203 Posts
    • 8,968 Thanks
    The Deep
    It is complicated, (to a certain extent), but not a bit frightening. Not at all like that Dancing Queen on TV, Judge Rinder.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Feb 18, 2:56 PM
    • 57,393 Posts
    • 71,005 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Well this is the first time I've ever had a fine for anything in my life so I just panicked. I'm beginning to wonder if it's even worth fighting it it seems very complicated and frightening.
    Originally posted by Carl6791
    Everyone says this, then 99% go on to win and love it. None are experienced!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • ampersand
    • By ampersand 10th Feb 18, 4:17 PM
    • 8,426 Posts
    • 32,711 Thanks
    ampersand
    Well this is the first time I've ever had
    a fine
    for anything in my life so I just panicked. I'm beginning to wonder if it's even worth fighting it it seems very complicated and frightening.
    Originally posted by Carl6791
    ##########
    Carlo - let me really shock you: , you haven't had one yet, either!
    Do not use the f-word for these. It's wrong. Read on.

    Private parking scumpanies issue speculative invoices, in the hope you will roll over and pay.

    I'll send you an invoice for this correction, if you like.

    Read the Parking Prankster blog: it will encourage, amuse and hearten you.
    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/

    Weather forecast is for colder nastier days, so get stuck in on this. Of course you can beat it.

    This Forum is full of people helping those who show willing. The success rate exceeds 99%. Making a start is the hardest part. Post anything up here first for a critique.

    Now, make a start.

    Last edited by ampersand; 10-02-2018 at 4:19 PM.
    CAP[UK]for FREE EXPERT DEBT&BUDGET HELP:01274 760720, freephone0800 328 0006
    'People don't want much. They want: "Someone to love, somewhere to live, somewhere to work and something to hope for."
    Norman Kirk, NZLP- Prime Minister, 1972
    ***JE SUIS CHARLIE***
    'It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere' François-Marie AROUET


    • Carl6791
    • By Carl6791 10th Feb 18, 10:16 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Carl6791
    Hi guys, just to let you the pcn has been cancelled by HR member of staff at Sainsbury's after discussing the details of what had happened.

    Still I wanted to come back and thank you all for your help and support.

    I feel like I got stressed over nothing

    Thanks, Carl.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Feb 18, 10:22 PM
    • 57,393 Posts
    • 71,005 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Quite right too, a double dip case is a complete scam. Did you watch the Parliamentary debate link? Well worth watching to understand the absolutely rotten industry, now sussed by MPs at least.

    Well done for pushing the complaint first, it is always 'Plan A' to complain first.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 11th Feb 18, 8:04 AM
    • 17,572 Posts
    • 27,779 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Hi guys, just to let you the pcn has been cancelled by HR member of staff at Sainsbury's after discussing the details of what had happened.

    Still I wanted to come back and thank you all for your help and support.

    I feel like I got stressed over nothing

    Thanks, Carl.
    Originally posted by Carl6791
    Well done Carl, glad to have helped.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • ampersand
    • By ampersand 12th Feb 18, 11:05 PM
    • 8,426 Posts
    • 32,711 Thanks
    ampersand
    Good news, Carl.

    I trust you extracted a written cancellation i.e. hard copy proof rather than verbal promise.
    While details are still fresh in your mind, note down that person's name, date of that promised cancellation, time/duration of mtg.

    May this success be a portent for other rl progress, too. Phoenix time, Carl :-)
    CAP[UK]for FREE EXPERT DEBT&BUDGET HELP:01274 760720, freephone0800 328 0006
    'People don't want much. They want: "Someone to love, somewhere to live, somewhere to work and something to hope for."
    Norman Kirk, NZLP- Prime Minister, 1972
    ***JE SUIS CHARLIE***
    'It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere' François-Marie AROUET


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