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    • Bath cube
    • By Bath cube 9th Feb 18, 9:51 PM
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    Bath cube
    Grandparent fostering a grandchild?
    • #1
    • 9th Feb 18, 9:51 PM
    Grandparent fostering a grandchild? 9th Feb 18 at 9:51 PM
    I have started this post as this issue sounds a bit strange to me. A lady I work with has a grand daughter aged almost six. Her daughter and her ex partner split 18 months ago due to daughters partner taking illegal drugs and a mental health issue. The social services became involved when her daughter called the police about her partner a few times. My colleague says children's services wanted to place the child into local authority care but herself and her husband challenged it. She says she has her grand daughter on a fostering agreement and reduced her work hours to accommodate this. She did have to take a fostering course in line with children's services rules if she wanted the child to remain with her and her husband. Her daughter and her ex partner can only see the child under her supervision once a month. Her daughters ex is not permitted to go into her house or on the street where they live, he has to arrange to meet them in a different location in order to see the child. It all sounds a bit off to me. How can someone receive fostering allowances for their own grand child and if the child's father is deemed such a danger wouldn't the child have been placed into care away from the area? . My colleague said she fears her grand child's dad could apply for custody one day. Also the other set of grandparents have to arrange to see the child once a month through children's services once per month but the child's father must not be with them when they take the child out for the 3 hours per month. Also if my colleague was found to be allowing the child's dad to call round or take him out by himself. The child would be taken into alternative care and she would lose all rights to see the child again. Does anyone know if this is correct?.
Page 3
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 11th Feb 18, 12:55 PM
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    FBaby
    Fathers plan on an intend to become fathers, unless they have been raped. Grandparents have no choice as to whether or not they become grandparents.
    Quite a few fathers would argue this, with all those 'accidents' taking place. Still don't see what difference it makes. Grand parents don't have to take on their grandchildren if they don't want to either.

    As an adoptive parent I can assure you that access to training, play therapy etc is not available from social services or the NHS
    So make these services available to grandparents without them having to become foster parents and gain additional funding as a result.

    You might not expect any extra money for looking after your grandchildren but how would you manage if you or your husband had to give up your job to look after them, particularly if neither of you earned the sort of salary that I think you do?
    I would claim the same benefits than parents do, tax credits etc... I have no issue with this, I have an issue with the fact that foster parents can claim these benefits in addition to the extra funding that comes from fostering.

    I will also say that no amount of extra money would compensate for the stress, tiredness, etc that she now suffers.
    And what about all people in their 60s who look after their own parents, exhausting and stressful too. Should they too claim because they didn't ask to look after their parents but it's better than going into care? They get CA and that's that. As a foster parent, you can get up to £400 a week and that is income that is not counted for tax credits purpose I believe.

    I wonder how these children introduce their grandparents in these circumstances? 'Hello, please meet my foster parent, oh yes, she happens to be my grandmother but looking after me is stressful and tiring, so that makes her a foster parent!' Poor kid.
    • happyandcontented
    • By happyandcontented 11th Feb 18, 1:15 PM
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    happyandcontented
    I am the first to say that benefits can be over generous and that many people take advantage of the system, but not everyone who finds themselves in a position where they are asked to take on the responsibility of grandchildren is financially able to do that comfortably, given the age they are likely to be.

    Who factors that into their financial planning?
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 11th Feb 18, 1:25 PM
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    NeilCr

    I wonder how these children introduce their grandparents in these circumstances? 'Hello, please meet my foster parent, oh yes, she happens to be my grandmother but looking after me is stressful and tiring, so that makes her a foster parent!' Poor kid.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    Nope. They would say - this is my grandmother. I live with her and she looks after me. Today we were on holiday from school. She took me to the park where we played football. Then we went for lunch. After which she had a visit from a social worker. Then she played games with me till teatime. After tea we watched TV. She is amazing - she is always smiling and never gets tired.

    Poor you if you do not understand that.

    One or two of your other points as you digress from your original assertion.

    Yes. There should be more help available but it is not. We have to deal with the here and now.

    Yes. I strongly agree that more help and support (and yes finance) should be there for Carers of the elderly

    I believe that you cannot claim CB or CTC if you get the fostering allowance. I need to check that. ETA My local council appears to say no

    https://www.kentfostering.co.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/23808/tax-and-benefits-for-foster-carers.pdf

    What I was arguing against was your comment that grandparents who foster do it for the money. I do not agree with that at all.
    Last edited by NeilCr; 11-02-2018 at 1:34 PM.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 11th Feb 18, 1:29 PM
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    Red-Squirrel

    I wonder how these children introduce their grandparents in these circumstances? 'Hello, please meet my foster parent, oh yes, she happens to be my grandmother but looking after me is stressful and tiring, so that makes her a foster parent!' Poor kid.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    Have you ever actually met or spoke to somebody in this situation?

    I think you are being incredibly harsh and judgemental about people doing a good thing in a tough situation, and I think you really need to stop!
    • GwylimT
    • By GwylimT 11th Feb 18, 1:36 PM
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    GwylimT
    Quite a few fathers would argue this, with all those 'accidents' taking place. Still don't see what difference it makes. Grand parents don't have to take on their grandchildren if they don't want to either.


    So make these services available to grandparents without them having to become foster parents and gain additional funding as a result.


    I would claim the same benefits than parents do, tax credits etc... I have no issue with this, I have an issue with the fact that foster parents can claim these benefits in addition to the extra funding that comes from fostering.


    And what about all people in their 60s who look after their own parents, exhausting and stressful too. Should they too claim because they didn't ask to look after their parents but it's better than going into care? They get CA and that's that. As a foster parent, you can get up to £400 a week and that is income that is not counted for tax credits purpose I believe.

    I wonder how these children introduce their grandparents in these circumstances? 'Hello, please meet my foster parent, oh yes, she happens to be my grandmother but looking after me is stressful and tiring, so that makes her a foster parent!' Poor kid.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    You really are a piece of work, how can a father argue it? If he didn't want to be a father he wouldn't be having sex in the first place.

    You don't seem to grasp that foster children require incredibly expensive and intensive therapy, the reason such therapy isn't available is because on average a course costs £60k per child, that is before you consider the cost of not working, paying for hotels/renting housing near the very few therapy centres in the UK. Local authorities vary but the average funding for therapy is £3000 per child, however this is only available from most authorities if the child is in crisis and going to cost the authority more than £3000 due to said crisis. We were turned down for funding as our foster child hadn't been hospitalised due to self injury.

    Upto £400 a week, unless the child has complex physical medical needs and you're a trained as a speciailist and therapeutic foster carer, you won't get anything like that to provide care, you're looking at £130. We were in tens of thousands of pounds of debt to provide for our fostered child, if it's so easy and comes with so much money why are councils finding it an impossible task to recruit carers?

    Kinship carers are also regularly pushed into signing SGO's after 24 months with the threat of the child being moved on if they refuse, they tried and failed to do this with us.

    You say poor kid, yet you want funding to be removed to prevent children leaving the care system and to reduce their life chances. We all know who is putting the welfare of children last.
    • Alikay
    • By Alikay 11th Feb 18, 1:41 PM
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    Alikay
    And what about all people in their 60s who look after their own parents, exhausting and stressful too. Should they too claim because they didn't ask to look after their parents but it's better than going into care? They get CA and that's that. As a foster parent, you can get up to £400 a week and that is income that is not counted for tax credits purpose I believe.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    That may be true for some agency foster carers looking after very challenging children. My local authority pays £146.15 p/w for looking after a child under 5. That is a very low hourly rate. Contrary to popular belief there's generally no extra clothing allowance apart from a meagre initial grant if the child arrives only in what they stand up in. And a proportion of the money must be saved for the child in a designated savings account. Believe me, the grandparents are unlikely to get rich fostering their grandchildren. At best they will cover costs, but if they have to give up work to do it, they will be significantly out-of-pocket.

    With elderly parents there is, quite rightly, carers allowance for the adult doing the caring and attendance allowance payable to the parent helps cover costs.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 11th Feb 18, 1:51 PM
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    Pollycat
    You really are a piece of work, how can a father argue it? If he didn't want to be a father he wouldn't be having sex in the first place.
    Originally posted by GwylimT
    As someone who never wanted to have children with a long-term partner who feels the same, I can assure you that this really is not the case at all.
    • GwylimT
    • By GwylimT 11th Feb 18, 1:56 PM
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    GwylimT
    As someone who never wanted to have children with a long-term partner who feels the same, I can assure you that this really is not the case at all.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    So as people who don't want children were you using contraception? FBaby is suggesting that men don't need to and therefore have no blame or responsibility for a pregancy.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 11th Feb 18, 2:03 PM
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    Pollycat
    So as people who don't want children were you using contraception? FBaby is suggesting that men don't need to and therefore have no blame or responsibility for a pregancy.
    Originally posted by GwylimT
    Well, fbaby quoted this part of your post - which doesn't actually make much sense to me.

    Fathers plan on an intend to become fathers, unless they have been raped. Grandparents have no choice as to whether or not they become grandparents.
    Originally posted by GwylimT
    And I can't see any mention of contraception.
    • GwylimT
    • By GwylimT 11th Feb 18, 2:06 PM
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    GwylimT
    Well, fbaby quoted this part of your post - which doesn't actually make much sense to me.



    And I can't see any mention of contraception.
    Originally posted by Pollycat

    That's because I'm not FBaby.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 11th Feb 18, 2:10 PM
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    Pollycat
    That's because I'm not FBaby.
    Originally posted by GwylimT
    OK then.
    As you seem keen to be pedantic, neither you nor Fbaby mentioned contraception (although I may have missed it).
    So why would you ask if I used contraception?
    • GwylimT
    • By GwylimT 11th Feb 18, 2:13 PM
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    GwylimT
    OK then.
    As you seem keen to be pedantic, neither you nor Fbaby mentioned contraception (although I may have missed it).
    So why would you ask if I used contraception?
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    I'm not being pedantic, FBaby implied that men need take no responsibility for their children, you then for some reason quoted my posts to show a lack of evidence for this, despite me not being FBaby.

    I asked if you used contraception as I directly replied to Fbaby who doesn't think men need either use it or take responsibility for any pregnancy. I pointed out that if you don't want children in that situation you simply don't have sex. I assumed you were sensible and took responsibility, unlike FBaby who approves of men doing a runner because they can't be bothered to use contraception.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 11th Feb 18, 2:16 PM
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    Pollycat
    I'm not being pedantic, FBaby implied that men need take no responsibility for their children, you then for some reason quoted my posts to show a lack of evidence for this, despite me not being FBaby.

    I asked if you used contraception as I directly replied to Fbaby who doesn't think men need either use it or take responsibility for any pregnancy. I pointed out that if you don't want children in that situation you simply don't have sex. I assumed you were sensible and took responsibility, unlike FBaby who approves of men doing a runner because they can't be bothered to use contraception.
    Originally posted by GwylimT
    Is that what FBaby actually believed?
    You used 'implied'.
    • GwylimT
    • By GwylimT 11th Feb 18, 2:19 PM
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    GwylimT
    Is that what FBaby actually believed?
    You used 'implied'.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    FBaby quite clearly said that fathers don't intentionally become fathers and their parenthood is only occuring due to engineered pregnancies caused by a lack of contraception on the mothers part. So FBaby is clearly implying that men don't have to accept responaibility or use contraception.
    • esmy
    • By esmy 11th Feb 18, 3:07 PM
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    esmy


    I would claim the same benefits than parents do, tax credits etc... I have no issue with this, I have an issue with the fact that foster parents can claim these benefits in addition to the extra funding that comes from fostering.

    .
    Originally posted by FBaby
    This is not correct. If you are a foster carer you cannot claim child related benefits for that child.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 11th Feb 18, 4:21 PM
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    FBaby
    Ok, no point going any further with this especially when I'm being quoted saying things I certainly didn't say!

    My point was only from a financial perspective and gaining financially from opting to take the 'foster parent' route. That's because I remember a post on the debt forum from a grand parent who was claiming both WTC and foster payments and her benefit income was massive. This poster was overpaying her mortgage with that income because she'd been on interest only for years and was at risk of losing her house.

    There was also a discussion on another forum with grand-parents being advised to take the foster parent route rather because you can still claim WTC this way and they would be much better off than just claiming child tax credits.

    I do have great admiration from any grandparent who take on that role, however, I stand to my position that trying to maximise benefits by considering oneself a foster parent rather than a grand parent quite disheartening. My view and position!
    • Robisere
    • By Robisere 11th Feb 18, 4:28 PM
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    Robisere
    I agree with the sentiment that 'fostering' your own grandchildren is a really sad concept and I can't imagine what kids must feel like when they feel that they are not only not good enough for their parents, but can only live with their grandparents if they act like foster parents. It sounds like the only reason to have gone down that route is to maximise finances, as otherwise, they could have just claimed CB and tax credits, so if that is indeed the reasoning behind it, then I think the system has gone completely mad.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    You are absolutely and totally wrong on all counts. Did you read my post?
    *NOT a 'sad concept': we loved (and still love) our grandchildren and we have lots of memories, with lots of photos of happy times together. There was no choice - either we took them, or they would have been adopted, probably split up at 2 and 4 years old and living miles apart. They love us back: atm we are both in our early 70's and disabled. They are an (unasked for) enormous help to both of us and visit all the time. "Can we do anything for you?"
    *Children feeling not good enough for their parents? Rubbish! If you read my post, you would know that in the case of their mother, the opposite was true.
    *Maximise finances? You have no idea! It took us months to get Child Benefit, long after our ds had taken them to his new home. The back pay was light by a month. We spent what we had to give the children we love unconditionally and we do not regret a single penny.

    Your post makes me think that you do not have children, am I correct? If so, you have no grandchildren. If that is true, I feel sorry for you: you have missed some of the greatest joys in life.

    I do wish people would not comment about situations of which they have had neither experience nor knowledge.
    I think this job really needs
    a much bigger hammer.
    • determined new ms
    • By determined new ms 11th Feb 18, 4:29 PM
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    determined new ms
    Because I don't see grand-parents as 'carers' but as what they are grand PARENTS. Where does it stop otherwise? If a child lives with his mum FT and then mum passes away so that the care goes to the father who before then only saw his child once a month as living miles away, should they also be entitled to becoming a foster parent because they are becoming carer for that child?

    I guess I find it shocking as I come from a culture where family doesn't stop at mum and dad. I cannot imagine considering myself a foster parent to my future grandchildren just to get more money if it came to it, nor would I do it for my sister's kids. They are my family and if something happened that meant I had to look after them, I wouldn't expect any additional money then what I would be entitled as a parent.



    Call me cynical but I don't believe for a second that is the main reason for grand parents do go down that route. Such access would be available from a referral via SS or the NHS. I think what it comes down to is that culture of entitlement when people value any additional cash and the material things that it gets them above that of the message that it gives, which is that the child is a commodity rather than a family member.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    I am a kinship carer raising my grandchild. I chose, for fear she was going to be removed and adopted, to waive any right to financial support. I've got to say you are entitled to your opinion, but should recognise it is an uneducated one.

    These children have complex issues and you would like to think right to therapeutic treatment should be universal but believe me it is anything but.

    Honestly people shouldn't express judgemental opinions without any research or understanding - obviously this is just my opinion...
    DF as at 30/12/16
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    • happyandcontented
    • By happyandcontented 11th Feb 18, 4:32 PM
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    happyandcontented
    Ok, no point going any further with this especially when I'm being quoted saying things I certainly didn't say!

    My point was only from a financial perspective and gaining financially from opting to take the 'foster parent' route. That's because I remember a post on the debt forum from a grand parent who was claiming both WTC and foster payments and her benefit income was massive. This poster was overpaying her mortgage with that income because she'd been on interest only for years and was at risk of losing her house.

    There was also a discussion on another forum with grand-parents being advised to take the foster parent route rather because you can still claim WTC this way and they would be much better off than just claiming child tax credits.

    I do have great admiration from any grandparent who take on that role, however, I stand to my position that trying to maximise benefits by considering oneself a foster parent rather than a grand parent quite disheartening. My view and position!
    Originally posted by FBaby
    I have no idea of the set up of the finances of the person I referred to in my post, but in her position, retired, now widowed, aged 72 with two grandchildren under 7 living with her full time would you refuse the fostering allowance? I assume their social worker sorts all these things out.

    Given that she sometimes needs respite when she goes into hospital to have eye treatment and so relies on friends to feed and house the children at those times? Given that both children have physio needs due to medical issues, one of them requires speech therapy and one is still in nappies at the age of 5. All of those issues carry a cost.

    What would you do? If this was sprung on you, by your daughter/son out of the blue, in the early years of your retirement as it was with her.
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 11th Feb 18, 4:36 PM
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    NeilCr
    I do wish people would not comment about situations of which they have had neither experience nor knowledge.
    Originally posted by Robisere
    Absolutely

    And, even worse, they compound this by making statements based on incorrect assumptions which they havenít bothered to check. And, then, make nasty little comments aimed at people who are in very difficult situations.
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