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  • FIRST POST
    • jamh2000
    • By jamh2000 9th Feb 18, 10:44 AM
    • 3Posts
    • 0Thanks
    jamh2000
    Parking law- question
    • #1
    • 9th Feb 18, 10:44 AM
    Parking law- question 9th Feb 18 at 10:44 AM
    So this is kind of an idle question- but I really can't find an answer!

    When you buy a parking ticket, you enter into a legally binding contract- there is offer, acceptance, and consideration from both parties (you PAY, they give you a space)- intention to create legal relations is imputed.

    But what if you don't buy a ticket in the first place? You have then not given any consideration. How can there be a contract?

    Anyone know the answer?

    PS as I said this is an idle question- I'm not trying to justify parking without paying!
Page 1
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 9th Feb 18, 10:46 AM
    • 9,209 Posts
    • 8,979 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #2
    • 9th Feb 18, 10:46 AM
    • #2
    • 9th Feb 18, 10:46 AM
    Have you posted this on Legal Beagles?


    http://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/motoring-parking
    Last edited by The Deep; 09-02-2018 at 10:50 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 9th Feb 18, 10:47 AM
    • 2,058 Posts
    • 3,447 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    • #3
    • 9th Feb 18, 10:47 AM
    • #3
    • 9th Feb 18, 10:47 AM
    The ppc claims you have entered into the contract by parking. The terms of the contract are set out in the signage: so if the sign says "if you park here without doing x, y or z, then you agree to pay 100" and they then give you a parking charge notice for 100.
    The question is then whether the wording on the signage, and how that signage has been displayed/brought to your attention, is sufficient to create a contract.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
    • jamh2000
    • By jamh2000 9th Feb 18, 10:52 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    jamh2000
    • #4
    • 9th Feb 18, 10:52 AM
    • #4
    • 9th Feb 18, 10:52 AM
    That's all true but the requirement for both parties to give consideration is a fundamental tenant of UK contract law. What have you 'given' the landowner by parking, if you have not paid for a ticket? There cannot be an exception to the requirement for consideration- surely something you do is being interpreted as giving consideration?

    I didn't know there was a legal beagles section- will have a look.
    • jamh2000
    • By jamh2000 9th Feb 18, 10:58 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    jamh2000
    • #5
    • 9th Feb 18, 10:58 AM
    • #5
    • 9th Feb 18, 10:58 AM
    Perhaps you are promising to pay by parking, and that's enough. But why have a requirement for consideration at all, if it can just be 'inferred' in certain situations when you haven't actually given it.
    Last edited by jamh2000; 09-02-2018 at 11:00 AM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Feb 18, 11:22 AM
    • 57,473 Posts
    • 71,063 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 9th Feb 18, 11:22 AM
    • #6
    • 9th Feb 18, 11:22 AM
    legal beagles is a website forum, Google it and join!

    That's all true but the requirement for both parties to give consideration is a fundamental tenant of UK contract law. What have you 'given' the landowner by parking, if you have not paid for a ticket? There cannot be an exception to the requirement for consideration- surely something you do is being interpreted as giving consideration?
    Read the Supreme Court's decision in Beavis, this was explained and they felt there was consideration in that case, where Mr Beavis accepted an offer to park under licence for 2 hours free, then pay a huge charge! If the Supreme Court twisted contract law to make it work for PE/Capita, then another court would in most PPC cases.

    IIRC the Consideration from Barry Beavis was deemed to be a 'promise' not to overstay (read it!)

    Unless the signs actually say 'NO PARKING'. Clearly no elements of a contract or consideration flowing there!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 09-02-2018 at 6:51 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 9th Feb 18, 2:39 PM
    • 3,729 Posts
    • 4,335 Thanks
    Johno100
    • #7
    • 9th Feb 18, 2:39 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Feb 18, 2:39 PM
    That's all true but the requirement for both parties to give consideration is a fundamental tenant of UK contract law. What have you 'given' the landowner by parking, if you have not paid for a ticket? There cannot be an exception to the requirement for consideration- surely something you do is being interpreted as giving consideration?

    I didn't know there was a legal beagles section- will have a look.
    Originally posted by jamh2000
    Perhaps you are promising to pay by parking, and that's enough. But why have a requirement for consideration at all, if it can just be 'inferred' in certain situations when you haven't actually given it.
    Originally posted by jamh2000
    Afraid Beavis drove a coach and horses through those tenets of contract law (when it comes to parking at least).
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 9th Feb 18, 4:47 PM
    • 2,309 Posts
    • 4,111 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #8
    • 9th Feb 18, 4:47 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Feb 18, 4:47 PM
    you PAY, they give you a space
    You might find that the promise you were given was you paid not for parking but a parking option i.e. you can park in a parking space if one is available.

    Typically on Rail sites, hospital sites and some commercial sites you are not even guaranteed a space.

    Nice income if you can get it.

    Afraid Beavis drove a coach and horses through those tenets of contract law (when it comes to parking at least).
    I'll have to disagree with you on that one as you've clearly not read the Beavis transcript nor understood the concept of a secondary contract / useful penalties.

    Two key tenets of law are the "sanctity" of property and a contract.
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • nigelbb
    • By nigelbb 10th Feb 18, 3:17 AM
    • 1,991 Posts
    • 2,751 Thanks
    nigelbb
    • #9
    • 10th Feb 18, 3:17 AM
    • #9
    • 10th Feb 18, 3:17 AM
    So this is kind of an idle question- but I really can't find an answer!

    When you buy a parking ticket, you enter into a legally binding contract- there is offer, acceptance, and consideration from both parties (you PAY, they give you a space)- intention to create legal relations is imputed.

    But what if you don't buy a ticket in the first place? You have then not given any consideration. How can there be a contract?

    Anyone know the answer?

    PS as I said this is an idle question- I'm not trying to justify parking without paying!
    Originally posted by jamh2000
    In other circumstance intentionally not paying for goods or services would be enforced by criminal law. In PPC World contract law has been twisted to levy private "fines" as the business model of PPCs depends on wringing charges out of drivers not being paid by landowners to manage parking.

    This bizarre & corrupt business model is unique to the parking "industry". An analogy would be a cinema that "fines" customers a hundred times the price of the ticket if they are caught sneaking in without paying or have paid but stay sat in their seats after the showing waiting to watch the film all over again.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 10th Feb 18, 8:14 AM
    • 2,309 Posts
    • 4,111 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    This bizarre & corrupt business model is unique to the parking "industry".
    The next time you book into a hotel, check the term about smoking in a room. Current rate at Holiday Inn is 100 to clean it. The Beavis case has not percolated in other areas yet - apart from hotels - but it has much wider applications.

    When it was described as a "landmark" case, IMHO it was an understatement.
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 10th Feb 18, 10:55 AM
    • 9,209 Posts
    • 8,979 Thanks
    The Deep
    The next time you book into a hotel, check the term about smoking in a room. Current rate at Holiday Inn is 100 to clean it.

    Surely this is an unfair term in a consumer contract.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Feb 18, 2:30 PM
    • 57,473 Posts
    • 71,063 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    No TD, because they have an undoubted 'legitimate interest' in making sure patrons don't smoke in rooms. Beavis certainly applies.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • whiskeytoothpaste
    • By whiskeytoothpaste 10th Feb 18, 3:07 PM
    • 60 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    whiskeytoothpaste
    Years ago after a hotel room 'party', I had 100 taken from my pre authorised card.
    I wrote and asked for the receipt showing their breakdown of costs. I argued not a gpeol.
    They just refunded.
    Chin up.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Feb 18, 3:27 PM
    • 17,588 Posts
    • 27,803 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    No TD, because they have an undoubted 'legitimate interest' in making sure patrons don't smoke in rooms. Beavis certainly applies.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Especially as I might be the next resident of the room! Bleugh, everything stinking of Woodbines!
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Feb 18, 12:16 AM
    • 57,473 Posts
    • 71,063 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I agree, cancer-causing disgusting habit that affects other people too. Yuk.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • nigelbb
    • By nigelbb 11th Feb 18, 3:41 AM
    • 1,991 Posts
    • 2,751 Thanks
    nigelbb
    The next time you book into a hotel, check the term about smoking in a room. Current rate at Holiday Inn is 100 to clean it.

    Surely this is an unfair term in a consumer contract.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    It's legitimate as it's not a penalty but will be a GPEOL for the cost of deep cleaning & losses from not being able to rent out the room until the smell has cleared. The burden of proof would be rather high though as it would need proof of fag ends in the waste bin or ash on the carpet or the smoke detector being triggered before any claim would stand up.
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