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  • FIRST POST
    • Piggywinkle
    • By Piggywinkle 9th Feb 18, 10:36 AM
    • 122Posts
    • 54Thanks
    Piggywinkle
    Is this a bad time to buy a used diesel?
    • #1
    • 9th Feb 18, 10:36 AM
    Is this a bad time to buy a used diesel? 9th Feb 18 at 10:36 AM
    I've finally taken the decision to chop in my trusty 14 year old Fiesta Finesse and get something with the luxury of electric windows I've been looking at some Kia Souls, about 3/4 years old so still within the 7 year warranty. Reading reviews, it seems that they'd be a good match for me and my driving habits but DH suggested I look at getting a petrol one due to something he'd heard about the government bringing in financial disincentives for diesel drivers.

    Thing is, the diesel Souls consistently get better reviews than the petrol versions. From further research, the diesel thing is only for new cars registered from April? With this in mind, should I be seriously considering getting a diesel or should I steer well clear (pun intended )
    Last edited by Piggywinkle; 09-02-2018 at 1:35 PM.
Page 1
    • Catswhiska
    • By Catswhiska 9th Feb 18, 11:05 AM
    • 58 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    Catswhiska
    • #2
    • 9th Feb 18, 11:05 AM
    • #2
    • 9th Feb 18, 11:05 AM
    We bought a brand new diesel Soul a year ago. Never regretted it. It drives much better than the petrol version and is Euro 6 standard. Its the best car we have ever owned. Its the Soul 3 by the way
    Last edited by Catswhiska; 09-02-2018 at 11:07 AM.
    • bigisi
    • By bigisi 9th Feb 18, 11:06 AM
    • 133 Posts
    • 228 Thanks
    bigisi
    • #3
    • 9th Feb 18, 11:06 AM
    • #3
    • 9th Feb 18, 11:06 AM
    it seems that they'd be a good match for me and my driving habits
    Originally posted by Piggywinkle
    Which are?
    • uknick
    • By uknick 9th Feb 18, 11:25 AM
    • 758 Posts
    • 344 Thanks
    uknick
    • #4
    • 9th Feb 18, 11:25 AM
    • #4
    • 9th Feb 18, 11:25 AM
    Piggy, how many miles do you drive each year? And how long are your journeys? Diesels are not really suited to lots of short journeys, and it used to be you need to do about 10k miles per year to make any financial savings.
    • Piggywinkle
    • By Piggywinkle 9th Feb 18, 11:41 AM
    • 122 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    Piggywinkle
    • #5
    • 9th Feb 18, 11:41 AM
    • #5
    • 9th Feb 18, 11:41 AM
    Which are?
    Originally posted by bigisi

    School run, 3 x weekly trips to work and back (10 mile round trip) and 1-2 weekly motorway/dual carriageway journeys to parent's house (40 mile round trip). I only cover around 6k per year to be honest, but I've heard the petrol engines are a lot thirstier than their diesel counterparts. VED is also currently cheaper on the diesel too.
    Last edited by Piggywinkle; 09-02-2018 at 11:50 AM.
    • Piggywinkle
    • By Piggywinkle 9th Feb 18, 11:42 AM
    • 122 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    Piggywinkle
    • #6
    • 9th Feb 18, 11:42 AM
    • #6
    • 9th Feb 18, 11:42 AM
    Piggy, how many miles do you drive each year? And how long are your journeys? Diesels are not really suited to lots of short journeys, and it used to be you need to do about 10k miles per year to make any financial savings.
    Originally posted by uknick

    About 6k per year. A mix of short journeys interspersed with some medium range ones. See above ^^
    • GunJack
    • By GunJack 9th Feb 18, 11:44 AM
    • 10,081 Posts
    • 7,563 Thanks
    GunJack
    • #7
    • 9th Feb 18, 11:44 AM
    • #7
    • 9th Feb 18, 11:44 AM
    Piggy, how many miles do you drive each year? And how long are your journeys? Diesels are not really suited to lots of short journeys, and it used to be you need to do about 10k miles per year to make any financial savings.
    Originally posted by uknick
    It really depends on the driving you do - almost 6 months in to a diesel Ford Fusion I'm on track to save 650-700 on fuel & tax over the previous Rover 45 1.4 petrol in the first year, on 9000 miles p.a. I do a 30-mile round trip commute and some short local driving.
    ......Gettin' There, Wherever There is......
    • bigisi
    • By bigisi 9th Feb 18, 12:15 PM
    • 133 Posts
    • 228 Thanks
    bigisi
    • #8
    • 9th Feb 18, 12:15 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Feb 18, 12:15 PM
    School run, 3 x weekly trips to work and back (10 mile round trip) and 1-2 weekly motorway/dual carriageway journeys to parent's house (40 mile round trip). I only cover around 6k per year to be honest, but I've heard the petrol engines are a lot thirstier than their diesel counterparts. VED is also currently cheaper on the diesel too.
    Originally posted by Piggywinkle
    So you're only wanting a diesel because you "think" it'll be cheaper?

    Modern diesels don't like stop start traffic or short journeys, their clutches aren't designed for it and there is a filter in the exhaust which needs a good run to clear itself on a regular basis. Doing 6k miles per year could easily see these two things need replacing before long which could mean hundreds of pounds which will wipe out your saving on fuel and tax in an instant.
    • Piggywinkle
    • By Piggywinkle 9th Feb 18, 1:37 PM
    • 122 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    Piggywinkle
    • #9
    • 9th Feb 18, 1:37 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Feb 18, 1:37 PM
    So you're only wanting a diesel because you "think" it'll be cheaper?

    Modern diesels don't like stop start traffic or short journeys, their clutches aren't designed for it and there is a filter in the exhaust which needs a good run to clear itself on a regular basis. Doing 6k miles per year could easily see these two things need replacing before long which could mean hundreds of pounds which will wipe out your saving on fuel and tax in an instant.
    Originally posted by bigisi

    The main reason I was asking if I should consider a diesel is that all of the reviews I've read have favoured it over the petrol for noise levels, torque, efficiency and emissions. I do realise that diesels are not tailored to shorter journeys, but I just didn't want to write off all diesels because they do seem to be more favoured option generally.
    • Catswhiska
    • By Catswhiska 9th Feb 18, 1:48 PM
    • 58 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    Catswhiska
    The main reason I was asking if I should consider a diesel is that all of the reviews I've read have favoured it over the petrol for noise levels, torque, efficiency and emissions. I do realise that diesels are not tailored to shorter journeys, but I just didn't want to write off all diesels because they do seem to be more favoured option generally.
    Originally posted by Piggywinkle
    As I said the diesel is a better drive. It is a lovely car with a high level of equipment for the price. Loads of room and nice and high off the ground. We never worried at all about buying ours. The tax is low and so is the insurance. Kai warranty is also brilliant. We will run it for a lot of years all being well
    • n217970
    • By n217970 9th Feb 18, 1:50 PM
    • 312 Posts
    • 263 Thanks
    n217970
    One problem with the used market now is that 3 or 4 years ago we did not have the bad publicity about diesels, in certain models of car its actually quite difficult to find a petrol as nobody was buying them new.
    • GunJack
    • By GunJack 9th Feb 18, 2:11 PM
    • 10,081 Posts
    • 7,563 Thanks
    GunJack
    Looking at your driving, I'd either get an older diesel or a newer petrol tbh...older diesel normally no DPF to worry about, and you could still benefit (but not much) on tax and fuel. For example, my Fusion is a 53 plate, so similar to your fiesta, but I'll bet a diesel of that era will be cheaper than the equivalent petrol, but not so different to a newer petrol.

    Oh, and my Fusion has electric windows and power steering, and was under 300 to buy
    ......Gettin' There, Wherever There is......
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 9th Feb 18, 11:15 PM
    • 4,316 Posts
    • 2,531 Thanks
    Nasqueron
    Saving 100 a year for say 5 years won't pay for the cost of up to 2000 when the DPF fails from such "misuse" of a diesel. They aren't designed for 6k a year short journeys and you won't get the high MPG from driving 10 miles to the shops in urban areas. Get a petrol and pay the higher VED - that is what is ideal for your journey type
    • svain
    • By svain 9th Feb 18, 11:32 PM
    • 330 Posts
    • 604 Thanks
    svain
    Ignore the scaremongers ..... Its a great time to buy a diesel. You can get serious value for money as their values have dropped considerably.
    If doing a 40mile motorway/dual carriageway blast once or twice a week then the DPF shouldn't be an issue.
    Keep a diesel regularly maintained with good quality parts and oil, use good quality fuel (avoid supermarket fuel) and they can run for year after year with little trouble.
    Last edited by svain; 09-02-2018 at 11:39 PM.
    • LeeUK
    • By LeeUK 9th Feb 18, 11:59 PM
    • 5,891 Posts
    • 2,693 Thanks
    LeeUK
    and it used to be you need to do about 10k miles per year to make any financial savings.
    Originally posted by uknick
    Back in the day when diesels were touted as the must have car and if you were buying brand new.

    Not so much price difference now that everyone is dropping diesels like it's hot + the second hand market are similar prices to petrol.

    Also since I got my first diesel car in 2016 I've never looked back. So much better drive.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 10th Feb 18, 12:50 AM
    • 9,060 Posts
    • 9,975 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    School run, 3 x weekly trips to work and back (10 mile round trip) and 1-2 weekly motorway/dual carriageway journeys to parent's house (40 mile round trip). I only cover around 6k per year to be honest, but I've heard the petrol engines are a lot thirstier than their diesel counterparts. VED is also currently cheaper on the diesel too.
    Originally posted by Piggywinkle
    No idea what your budget is but you could easily do that in a new Kia Soul EV for 200/month.
    Fuel (electricity) cost about 1/4 that of diesel.
    No VED.
    Never visit a garage again.
    No issues with DPF, no poisoning kids with fumes.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 10th Feb 18, 8:37 AM
    • 16,460 Posts
    • 9,710 Thanks
    motorguy
    Ignore the scaremongers ..... Its a great time to buy a diesel. You can get serious value for money as their values have dropped considerably.
    If doing a 40mile motorway/dual carriageway blast once or twice a week then the DPF shouldn't be an issue.
    Keep a diesel regularly maintained with good quality parts and oil, use good quality fuel (avoid supermarket fuel) and they can run for year after year with little trouble.
    Originally posted by svain
    Used values havent dropped considerably. There were a couple of newspaper reports of massive diesel car value drops but they were from an unreliable source. The SMMT and Glass's Guide, etc are all reporting normal depreciation on them
    • daveyjp
    • By daveyjp 10th Feb 18, 9:13 AM
    • 7,433 Posts
    • 5,921 Thanks
    daveyjp
    When the DPF begins a regeneration just as you are about to arrive home are you prepared to carry on and drive for another 10-20 minutes until the regeneration finishes?

    If you dont understand any of that or the potential long term implications and costs of stopping the engine mid regeneration buy a petrol.
    Last edited by daveyjp; 10-02-2018 at 9:37 AM.
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 10th Feb 18, 12:34 PM
    • 1,462 Posts
    • 1,079 Thanks
    IanMSpencer
    The driving profile sounds fine for a modern diesel - the only mileage constraint is the argument that the cost to buy a diesel is more than an equivalent petrol (especially with the technology that a modern diesel has to be loaded with) so on 6000 miles a year you have to decide over how long to spread the extra cost of a diesel. Unfortunately, it is hard to know whether one particular car has a good Euro 6 implementation. The problems on DPFs are more due to some manufacturers doing a bodged implementation, but a well designed engine will not have any problems with DPF. I do a lot of short journeys interspersed with longer runs at motorway speeds, perhaps only once a week, and have never had the hint of an issue with the DPF.

    So say the diesel costs 2000 more and you decide that you are going to keep the car 5 years - by then the difference in petrol and diesel models will be more or less lost anyway.

    400/year extra cost of a diesel.

    Say you get 50mpg out of a diesel and 35mpg out of a petrol.

    50mpg 6000 miles = 120 gallons a year

    35mpg 6000 miles = 170 gallons a year

    Let's assume petrol and diesel are about the same price and will remain so.

    So petrol will use 50 gallons more, at the moment say, 1.15 * 4.45 * 50 = 255

    So on that apparently massively poorer mpg, you would still be 150 a year better off with a petrol engine. You'd have to be getting less than 30mpg from a petrol engine to make a diesel more economic, or defray the cost of the diesel over 10 years rather than 5 to make it worthwhile.

    Of course, if the premium for the diesel is only 1000 then it is going to be better to have the diesel.

    You shouldn't dismiss a hybrid with that driving profile, they work best on shorter journeys.
    • Piggywinkle
    • By Piggywinkle 12th Feb 18, 10:50 AM
    • 122 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    Piggywinkle
    I test drove a diesel on Saturday and it was lovely, but I decided not to go ahead with it as I know in my heart of hearts that it's unsuitable. I spoke to the really helpful dealer who advised me against a diesel when I told him how many miles I covered annually.

    Thanks to all of the useful advice I had here, I wasn't clueless when he was talking about the DPF so thank you for that! I test drove a petrol version of the Kia Soul yesterday and although it was a pleasure to drive, it wasn't quite as nice as the diesel but I've accepted that I shouldn't really have one now. Petrol was lovely to handle but had one too many issues for a 3 year old car that made me step back and decide to keep on looking and widen my horizons. I've test driven a Renault Captur (hated it) and am down to test drive a Dacia Sandero Stepway and a Vauxhall Mokka tomorrow. All petrol, you'll be pleased to know
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