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  • FIRST POST
    • helpkitty
    • By helpkitty 8th Feb 18, 10:42 PM
    • 44Posts
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    helpkitty
    Relative found deceased by repossessors
    • #1
    • 8th Feb 18, 10:42 PM
    Relative found deceased by repossessors 8th Feb 18 at 10:42 PM
    Not sure where to start on this one so here goes and any advice greatly appreciated!

    A relative was discovered deceased by high court enforcement people who were there to repossess their house.

    No one was aware of any such order (apart from the deceased more than likely) they have then contacted the police and a funeral place has taken him to the hospital.

    The bailiffs have then changed the locks on the property.

    We have no idea if a will exists and they had no spouse or adult children.

    The police contacted and said the keys were with the estate agent who when we spoke to them said we had to speak to the bailiffs to gain access.

    the bailiffs have stated that we need to apply for a grant of probate and only with this will be able to retrieve personal items and paperwork from the house.

    Is this correct? it is possible that this is an insolvent estate and as we do not know if there is a will or not therefore there hasnt been an executor appointed so how can anyone apply for anything when we dont know anything?

    also who would even be executor? a parent or a sibling?
Page 1
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 8th Feb 18, 10:50 PM
    • 4,121 Posts
    • 3,371 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    • #2
    • 8th Feb 18, 10:50 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Feb 18, 10:50 PM
    Not sure where to start on this one so here goes and any advice greatly appreciated!

    A relative was discovered deceased by high court enforcement people who were there to repossess their house.

    No one was aware of any such order (apart from the deceased more than likely) they have then contacted the police and a funeral place has taken him to the hospital.

    The bailiffs have then changed the locks on the property.

    We have no idea if a will exists and they had no spouse or adult children.

    The police contacted and said the keys were with the estate agent who when we spoke to them said we had to speak to the bailiffs to gain access.

    the bailiffs have stated that we need to apply for a grant of probate and only with this will be able to retrieve personal items and paperwork from the house.

    Is this correct? it is possible that this is an insolvent estate and as we do not know if there is a will or not therefore there hasnt been an executor appointed so how can anyone apply for anything when we dont know anything?

    also who would even be executor? a parent or a sibling?
    Originally posted by helpkitty
    The bailiffs are playing the fool about the documents that might include a will. I would be very cautious if the estate seems to be insolvent. If a will exists then the executors can apply but does not have to. A close relative can apply for letters of administration but given the circumstances. You should not get involved with the funeral. The local authority are required to pay in these circumstances. Bottom line is leave all well alone!
    Last edited by Yorkshireman99; 09-02-2018 at 7:17 AM.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 9th Feb 18, 3:02 AM
    • 32,035 Posts
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    getmore4less
    • #3
    • 9th Feb 18, 3:02 AM
    • #3
    • 9th Feb 18, 3:02 AM
    When you say no adult children do you really mean no children?

    Be very careful either leave well alone or take great care as the bigger picture unfolds.

    I suspect a secured creditor is going to come out of the woodwork if there was a repossession in progress.

    Be very careful as they and others may try to get you to take on administration before you even know if the estate is even solvent.
    (they may even hint the/lie that a relevant near relative has to do it)

    Do you have any of the time line?

    it will soon become apparent to those that want the house that they need to see sense and locking people out till there is a grant won't get them anywhere.

    The standard we are not involved response to any enquiries to any relative is please write the the deceased's last know address "attention of the administrator"
    Last edited by getmore4less; 09-02-2018 at 3:08 AM.
    • Margot123
    • By Margot123 9th Feb 18, 8:28 AM
    • 804 Posts
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    Margot123
    • #4
    • 9th Feb 18, 8:28 AM
    • #4
    • 9th Feb 18, 8:28 AM
    Under no circumstances should you get involved in any of this.

    By all means pay your respects at the funeral, but nothing else.
    Do not be drawn into any conversations with anybody about the deceased's money, family, anything.

    This may seem 'over the top' but you can end up being involved in something that you really wouldn't want to be.

    The authorities will sort out the burial etc. and keep people informed. Don't worry about that.
    • helpkitty
    • By helpkitty 9th Feb 18, 9:19 AM
    • 44 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    helpkitty
    • #5
    • 9th Feb 18, 9:19 AM
    • #5
    • 9th Feb 18, 9:19 AM
    Thanks for the replies

    There is a 10 year old child so too young to be the next of kin.

    as far as we know its the two week notice in the window stage

    The parent is planning on arranging the funeral (and paying for it)
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 9th Feb 18, 11:43 AM
    • 32,035 Posts
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    getmore4less
    • #6
    • 9th Feb 18, 11:43 AM
    • #6
    • 9th Feb 18, 11:43 AM
    The child would be the intestate beneficiary and typically their remaining legal parent/guardian would pick up their interests in the absence of a named executor.

    It comes down to the solvency of the estate if anyone should get involved at all.

    Is anything known about the finances?
    • helpkitty
    • By helpkitty 9th Feb 18, 12:34 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    helpkitty
    • #7
    • 9th Feb 18, 12:34 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Feb 18, 12:34 PM
    so any money would go in trust via the remaining parent?

    thats the thing, we really have no idea at all, all we know for definite is the house was repossessed and a couple of weeks pay due.

    there has been talk of there being a pension from a previous employer where they worked for a good few years but also talk of it being something to do with shares but this is all hearsay.

    there may be a named executor but without access to the property we dont know if there is a will or not (or any other financial info)
    • nom de plume
    • By nom de plume 9th Feb 18, 1:55 PM
    • 685 Posts
    • 644 Thanks
    nom de plume
    • #8
    • 9th Feb 18, 1:55 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Feb 18, 1:55 PM
    the bailiffs have stated that we need to apply for a grant of probate and only with this will be able to retrieve personal items and paperwork from the house.

    Is this correct?
    Originally posted by helpkitty
    Correct or not, I see this as long winded and I'm sure there's someone who instructed the baliffs who will want possession of the property sooner rather than later. I would suggest finding and contacting this person / company and see if you can arrange accompanied access to look for a will, etc.
    • Robin9
    • By Robin9 9th Feb 18, 2:15 PM
    • 2,529 Posts
    • 1,636 Thanks
    Robin9
    • #9
    • 9th Feb 18, 2:15 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Feb 18, 2:15 PM
    I am confused In your opening post you say "We have no idea if a will exists and they had no spouse or adult children."

    but in post #5

    "The parent is planning on arranging the funeral (and paying for it)" - is this the deceased mother/father ?
    Never pay on an estimated bill
    • Margot123
    • By Margot123 9th Feb 18, 2:49 PM
    • 804 Posts
    • 818 Thanks
    Margot123
    Correct or not, I see this as long winded and I'm sure there's someone who instructed the baliffs who will want possession of the property sooner rather than later. I would suggest finding and contacting this person / company and see if you can arrange accompanied access to look for a will, etc.
    Originally posted by nom de plume
    Looking at this from the bailiffs angle, why would they allow a third party to have access and rummage through paperwork?

    They would be taking a massive risk that evidence of funds would vanish (not saying this would happen in the OP's case).

    Better to ask them to let you know if they come across it. They will be looking through everything themselves anyway.
    • helpkitty
    • By helpkitty 9th Feb 18, 3:46 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    helpkitty
    yes sorry Robin9, it is the deceased's parent that is paying.


    Yes Margot123 I see what you mean, but if they hadnt died they would have been allowed to retrieve their belongings and surely any paperwork of anything else wouldnt have had to be disclosed?
    • Margot123
    • By Margot123 9th Feb 18, 5:28 PM
    • 804 Posts
    • 818 Thanks
    Margot123
    [QUOTEYes Margot123 I see what you mean, but if they hadnt died they would have been allowed to retrieve their belongings and surely any paperwork of anything else wouldnt have had to be disclosed?[/QUOTE]

    It is the fact that the bailiffs have taken possession of all the deceased's property that is the point here.
    You could appeal to their kinder nature but will most probably met with a standard response. It is sometimes better if you can be there at the same time as the individual bailiffs (if you know when thy will be there), as they are usually more amenable in these circumstances.
    • Mark2spark
    • By Mark2spark 9th Feb 18, 11:05 PM
    • 2,176 Posts
    • 767 Thanks
    Mark2spark
    Hi, just my tuppence worth, perhaps the parent (the one paying for the funeral) could contact the baliffs/landlord, and ask for a supervised visit to attempt to find the will, a line could obviously be spun saying along the lines that we are trying to help sort the finances so that the debt gets paid back quicker.
    • dawyldthing
    • By dawyldthing 9th Feb 18, 11:16 PM
    • 2,894 Posts
    • 2,886 Thanks
    dawyldthing
    Thanks for the replies


    The parent is planning on arranging the funeral (and paying for it)
    Originally posted by helpkitty
    Tell them not to do this if there's no money in the estate
    My targets to end 2018:
    1) To get down to 11 st 7lbs then treat to a safari. At start 17 stone 7 lbs *61lbs lost* *30lbs to go*
    1st started SW16st13lbs tues11/7/17 - 38 weeks -53lbs
    2nd -> target 11 st 7lbs
    2) to find new challenges
    • dawyldthing
    • By dawyldthing 9th Feb 18, 11:18 PM
    • 2,894 Posts
    • 2,886 Thanks
    dawyldthing
    Hi, just my tuppence worth, perhaps the parent (the one paying for the funeral) could contact the baliffs/landlord, and ask for a supervised visit to attempt to find the will, a line could obviously be spun saying along the lines that we are trying to help sort the finances so that the debt gets paid back quicker.
    Originally posted by Mark2spark
    Plus they may already have a pre paid funeral plan set up
    My targets to end 2018:
    1) To get down to 11 st 7lbs then treat to a safari. At start 17 stone 7 lbs *61lbs lost* *30lbs to go*
    1st started SW16st13lbs tues11/7/17 - 38 weeks -53lbs
    2nd -> target 11 st 7lbs
    2) to find new challenges
    • dresdendave
    • By dresdendave 10th Feb 18, 12:06 PM
    • 747 Posts
    • 924 Thanks
    dresdendave
    Thanks for the replies

    There is a 10 year old child so too young to be the next of kin.

    as far as we know its the two week notice in the window stage

    The parent is planning on arranging the funeral (and paying for it)
    Originally posted by helpkitty
    As you describe the deceased as a relative presumably the child is also your relation. What is happening to the child? They have just lost a parent and their home. Their welfare would be my main concern rather than worrying about paperwork.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 10th Feb 18, 2:31 PM
    • 32,035 Posts
    • 19,222 Thanks
    getmore4less
    As you describe the deceased as a relative presumably the child is also your relation. What is happening to the child? They have just lost a parent and their home. Their welfare would be my main concern rather than worrying about paperwork.
    Originally posted by dresdendave
    assumptions are best avoided when the details have not been forthcoming.

    An equally likely alternative is the child is living with another(parent?) and this was not their home.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 10th Feb 18, 6:09 PM
    • 12,286 Posts
    • 9,616 Thanks
    unholyangel
    Looking at this from the bailiffs angle, why would they allow a third party to have access and rummage through paperwork?

    They would be taking a massive risk that evidence of funds would vanish (not saying this would happen in the OP's case).

    Better to ask them to let you know if they come across it. They will be looking through everything themselves anyway.
    Originally posted by Margot123
    I think the bailiffs may only be acting as bailee. OP hasn't said anything to suggest that they're seizing goods to recover a debt and even if they were, they wouldn't have any claim over paperwork or most personal belongings.

    However, as bailee they will have a duty of care not to let just anyone take it (or they would end up liable).
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • konark
    • By konark 11th Feb 18, 1:26 AM
    • 1,004 Posts
    • 775 Thanks
    konark
    I would have thought the bailiffs or whoever instructed them would want the flat cleared asap and would welcome someone going in and clearing up. They certainly ain't gonna leave the house undisturbed for 3 months like Tutankhamun's tomb whilst you apply for probate.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 11th Feb 18, 2:20 AM
    • 4,983 Posts
    • 5,551 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    Tell them not to do this if there's no money in the estate
    Originally posted by dawyldthing
    Although they donít have to do this they may very well want to, so buy all means tell them that they can leave this to the LA to provide a simple funeral but they might be somewhat upset just to be told not to do this.
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