Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • CarlD
    • By CarlD 8th Feb 18, 6:14 PM
    • 5Posts
    • 0Thanks
    CarlD
    Buying house - Title plan shows more land.
    • #1
    • 8th Feb 18, 6:14 PM
    Buying house - Title plan shows more land. 8th Feb 18 at 6:14 PM
    Hi.

    First post - after some advice on something I have spotted on the title plans of a house I am buying.

    The house is surrounded by fields. The title plans of the house show that an area of land currently used as part of the larger field around the house is actually part of the title of this property. I've obtained the title plan of the field from the Land Registry and sure enough, the field title plan does not include this piece of land. So as far as the land reg is concerned, this land would be mine??.....

    I questioned this with my solicitor and they basically said, your land will be what has a red line around it. This is fine, but I have searched back as long as possible and from google maps etc. I can see that the field has occupied and used this land for a very long time. Does anyone know where I stand and how I would go about making sure I can claim this land back once I move in.

    I'm not going to start being problematic and demanding the land back straight away, as the farmer has crops in it, but after the next harvest I would be keen to get a fence up and extend the garden for the benefit of my kids. It would be a lovely area for them.

    Any advice would be gratefully received.

    Many thanks.
Page 1
    • CarlD
    • By CarlD 8th Feb 18, 6:40 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    CarlD
    • #2
    • 8th Feb 18, 6:40 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Feb 18, 6:40 PM
    Have you asked the vendor about it? They may have an agreement with the farmer.
    Originally posted by Penitent
    I can't approach the vendor as they sold the house as a part ex to a builder.
    • Tiglet2
    • By Tiglet2 8th Feb 18, 6:53 PM
    • 115 Posts
    • 87 Thanks
    Tiglet2
    • #3
    • 8th Feb 18, 6:53 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Feb 18, 6:53 PM
    You might be best to speak to a solicitor who deals in land law, rather than conveyancing. If the user of the field has occupied the land for a very long time, they may think they "own" it by adverse possession but it doesn't sound like they have formally acquired the land, otherwise the Land Registry title plan would show the altered boundary. If the occupier formally claims the land now, you will, I suspect, object.
    • CarlD
    • By CarlD 8th Feb 18, 8:07 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    CarlD
    • #4
    • 8th Feb 18, 8:07 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Feb 18, 8:07 PM
    From what I can tell, they have not applied for adverse posession, or the title plans would reflect that. So it!!!8217;s a case of obtaining the land back by eviction. I agree that the safest option is to involve a solicitor who specialises in land.

    If anyone has any similar experience I!!!8217;d be interest to hear about how it ended up.
    • CarlD
    • By CarlD 8th Feb 18, 8:33 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    CarlD
    • #5
    • 8th Feb 18, 8:33 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Feb 18, 8:33 PM
    I agree entirely.

    Is there anywhere else I should look or try to obtain info from, other than speaking to a solicitor (which I!!!8217;m going to do anyway)?
    • CarlD
    • By CarlD 9th Feb 18, 7:43 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    CarlD
    • #6
    • 9th Feb 18, 7:43 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Feb 18, 7:43 PM
    OK, tried the previous owner. He had no idea. I can't approach the farmer as he is renting the field from its owner, and I don't want to get involved with the owner of the field until I've had further advice from my solicitors.

    My conveyancing contact at the solicitors I am using is going to speak to a land specialist in the practice.

    I wonder how this will turn out!
    • societys child
    • By societys child 9th Feb 18, 8:10 PM
    • 5,197 Posts
    • 5,734 Thanks
    societys child
    • #7
    • 9th Feb 18, 8:10 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Feb 18, 8:10 PM
    You don't even know the circumstances of him using the land yet, so I think it's a bit early to talk about evicting him.
    Originally posted by Penitent
    Yeah, the land could have been sold but not registered as belonging to the the owner of the rest of the field, especially as if there's been no other reason to update the registry yet

    OK, tried the previous owner. He had no idea. I can't approach the farmer as he is renting the field from its owner, and I don't want to get involved with the owner of the field
    Originally posted by CarlD
    Why not? He might actually own it.

    You haven't bought the property yet, but want to "claim it back" Wow, hope you're not moving anywhere near me . . .

    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 9th Feb 18, 9:02 PM
    • 15,599 Posts
    • 43,331 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    • #8
    • 9th Feb 18, 9:02 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Feb 18, 9:02 PM
    I would say most people would want to establish for sure and certain whether any land that was down as being theirs is still theirs.

    If they find out it has been legitimately acquired - ie sold to next door - then that's one thing and end of the matter.

    If they find out they still own it - then, hopefully, there might be a way to get it back again. On the other hand they have advance warning as to what the neighbour is like and might decide that is too big a "black mark" against the house to buy it with someone like that for a neighbour - as they would obviously wonder what else the neighbour would try to do/has done that they "didnt oughter" and, even if they decide to do nothing about it/cant do anything about it = they'd feel resentful every time they decided what they wanted to do with that bit of their land, but couldnt because the neighbour was on it.

    The thing I would be trying to work out too (besides contacting the Land Registry to see if they could cast any light on whether it was still my land or no) would be whether the price I'd be paying for the property would reflect the property value with or without that bit of land.
    Like Frankie said - I did it my way.
    It's MY life......
    • Linton
    • By Linton 9th Feb 18, 9:09 PM
    • 9,378 Posts
    • 9,509 Thanks
    Linton
    • #9
    • 9th Feb 18, 9:09 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Feb 18, 9:09 PM
    Why not get your solicitor to put a formal query to the vendor's solicitor - at this stage you need information to be guaranteed in some way. I would have thought your solicitor would want to the nature of your title clear before contracts are exchanged. Getting some word of mouth private statement from the vendor, even if you did have contact, would surely be inadequate.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 9th Feb 18, 9:36 PM
    • 7,642 Posts
    • 7,774 Thanks
    davidmcn
    whether the price I'd be paying for the property would reflect the property value with or without that bit of land.
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    Obviously without, as it's only cropped up after price has been agreed and solicitor has looked at the title. Which is as it should be, as the seller isn't offering vacant (or any other sort of) possession of that bit.

    I don't think it's all that big a deal, it's a boundary discrepancy which is in the OP's favour. Would be interesting to get the story from the seller (if they know any more about it) but I suspect it will turn out to be no more than an interesting title quirk rather than a practical problem.
    • noh
    • By noh 9th Feb 18, 10:39 PM
    • 5,229 Posts
    • 3,528 Thanks
    noh
    Hi.

    .... but after the next harvest I would be keen to get a fence up and extend the garden for the benefit of my kids. It would be a lovely area for them.

    Any advice would be gratefully received.

    Many thanks.
    Originally posted by CarlD
    You would may well need planning permission in order to fence off agricultural land for use as residential curtilage.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 10th Feb 18, 1:43 AM
    • 25,028 Posts
    • 92,545 Thanks
    Davesnave
    You would may well need planning permission in order to fence off agricultural land for use as residential curtilage.
    Originally posted by noh
    But one could own it as a paddock and do 'paddock' things with it, like till a little bit for vegetables, or grow some fruit trees.

    Quite a few people in my village have acquired paddocks. I've noticed that after a few years they tend to develop, with extra wildlife flower beds and ponds etc.

    My own house once had a 30' back garden, but now, somehow, it covers the best part of an acre.
    'It's a terrible thing to wait until you're ready…..Generally speaking, now is as good a time as any.' Hugh Lawrie.
    • noh
    • By noh 10th Feb 18, 7:28 AM
    • 5,229 Posts
    • 3,528 Thanks
    noh
    There is a house the other side of a field from us that has recently fenced in some surrounding agricultural land they own. It has come to the attention of the council who required them to apply for retrospective planning permission which was refused.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 10th Feb 18, 7:41 AM
    • 25,028 Posts
    • 92,545 Thanks
    Davesnave
    There is a house the other side of a field from us that has recently fenced in some surrounding agricultural land they own. It has come to the attention of the council who required them to apply for retrospective planning permission which was refused.
    Originally posted by noh
    So they own the land and have been told to keep it as a paddock, and not treat it as part of their garden, which is fair enough.

    The council can't make them sell it, though.

    You're right to point out that different councils are more or less vigilant, or people have neighbours who are more or less interested in reporting things that others do.
    'It's a terrible thing to wait until you're ready…..Generally speaking, now is as good a time as any.' Hugh Lawrie.
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 10th Feb 18, 7:51 AM
    • 2,066 Posts
    • 1,390 Thanks
    Tom99
    There is no guarantee you would be able to defeat the farmer's claim of adverse possession.

    If the farmer can meet any one of three conditions they can claim title to the land. The 3rd condition looks like it might suit their purpose:-

    The third condition is that the squatter has been in adverse possession of land adjacent to their own for at least 10 years under the mistaken but reasonable belief that they are the owner of it, the exact line of the boundary with this adjacent land has not been determined under section 60 of the Land Registration Act 2002 and the estate to which the application relates was registered more than a year prior to the date of the application.
    An example of where this condition might apply is where the dividing walls or fences on an estate were erected in the wrong place (Law Com 271, paragraph 14.46).”

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/adverse-possession-of-registered-land/practice-guide-4-adverse-possession-of-registered-land
    • noh
    • By noh 10th Feb 18, 9:22 AM
    • 5,229 Posts
    • 3,528 Thanks
    noh
    So they own the land and have been told to keep it as a paddock, and not treat it as part of their garden, which is fair enough.

    The council can't make them sell it, though.

    You're right to point out that different councils are more or less vigilant, or people have neighbours who are more or less interested in reporting things that others do.
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    This case is similar to the op insofar as the agricultural land was a strip of a field adjacent to the house, the entirety of which is planted with a crop. It is the change of use and the erection of the fencing that has been refused. I agree they might have got away with it if the fencing had been more discrete.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

731Posts Today

6,366Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • It's the start of mini MSE's half term. In order to be the best daddy possible, Im stopping work and going off line? https://t.co/kwjvtd75YU

  • RT @shellsince1982: @MartinSLewis thanx to your email I have just saved myself £222 by taking a SIM only deal for £7.50 a month and keeping?

  • Today's Friday twitter poll: An important question, building on yesterday's important discussions: Which is the best bit of the pizza...

  • Follow Martin