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  • FIRST POST
    • spook104
    • By spook104 7th Feb 18, 12:38 PM
    • 54Posts
    • 29Thanks
    spook104
    Default - No credit agreement
    • #1
    • 7th Feb 18, 12:38 PM
    Default - No credit agreement 7th Feb 18 at 12:38 PM
    Hello

    I'm after a little help

    A little history, a family member wanted to use me as an Avon agent which I let her do. I didn't fill out any forms and signed nothing so AFAIK I don't have a credit agreement with Avon. The account was closed on 21/09/17 I have an email from them saying so. They also said there was an outstanding amount on the account of 20. AFAIK this was cleared, just trying to track down the payment.

    So I done my regular free check with Experian today only to find out that I've defaulted. I've used the free trial to find out that Avon have registered a default over 30.

    They (AVON) registered the following on my account
    Jan 17 - Sept 17 - 0 outstanding balance
    Oct 17 - 30
    Nov 17 - 30
    Dec 17 - 0
    Jan 18 - 30
    Feb 18 - 0 Defaulted

    I've spoken to them this morning and they are saying they have add 5 on 25th Sept as late payment of the 20 (The 20 was apprantly from late payments anyway) and then another 5 at the end of Oct 17.

    So I'm seeing they have big problem here
    1) Incorrect reporting of outstanding balances to my credit file
    2) Not informing me of adding fees they said they sent sms message I didn't get these, I don't think they have my mobile number and previously in Early 2017 they wrote/emailed me about the account
    3) They don't have a signed credit agreement from me.

    Am I right, do I have good grounds to get this removed from my credit file? If so where do I start.

    Regads
Page 1
    • Gary_Dexter
    • By Gary_Dexter 7th Feb 18, 12:52 PM
    • 1,310 Posts
    • 755 Thanks
    Gary_Dexter
    • #2
    • 7th Feb 18, 12:52 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Feb 18, 12:52 PM
    1) Incorrect reporting of outstanding balances to my credit file - Not true - if you've not paid and they've added fees then it's correct

    2) Not informing me of adding fees they said they sent sms message I didn't get these, I don't think they have my mobile number and previously in Early 2017 they wrote/emailed me about the account - Ask them for proof they've sent letters etc.

    3) They don't have a signed credit agreement from me - They don't need a Credit Agreement - it's part of the terms of being a rep: http://rep.avon.uk.com/PRSuite/static/html/bar_agree.html
    • zx81
    • By zx81 7th Feb 18, 12:57 PM
    • 17,273 Posts
    • 18,379 Thanks
    zx81
    • #3
    • 7th Feb 18, 12:57 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Feb 18, 12:57 PM
    You need to find out what your family member has signed you up to.

    Checking all three credit files would be a good start in case you have other new and exciting accounts on there that you don't know about.
    • spook104
    • By spook104 7th Feb 18, 12:58 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    spook104
    • #4
    • 7th Feb 18, 12:58 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Feb 18, 12:58 PM
    1) Incorrect reporting of outstanding balances to my credit file - Not true - if you've not paid and they've added fees then it's correct

    2) Not informing me of adding fees they said they sent sms message I didn't get these, I don't think they have my mobile number and previously in Early 2017 they wrote/emailed me about the account - Ask them for proof they've sent letters etc.

    3) They don't have a signed credit agreement from me - They don't need a Credit Agreement - it's part of the terms of being a rep: http://rep.avon.uk.com/PRSuite/static/html/bar_agree.html
    Originally posted by Gary_Dexter
    Thank you but as per my original post

    1) It should have been 25 and then 30 according to them
    2) They aren't claiming to have sent letters, they sent an SMS
    3) As per the top of that agreement. If I sign..... I've signed nothing not even a rep agreement
    • msallen
    • By msallen 7th Feb 18, 12:58 PM
    • 840 Posts
    • 922 Thanks
    msallen
    • #5
    • 7th Feb 18, 12:58 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Feb 18, 12:58 PM
    I think before anyone can give you any advice you'll have to expand on "a family member wanted to use me as an Avon agent which I let her do". You say you didn't sign anything, but did this family member?
    • spook104
    • By spook104 7th Feb 18, 1:17 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    spook104
    • #6
    • 7th Feb 18, 1:17 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Feb 18, 1:17 PM
    I think before anyone can give you any advice you'll have to expand on "a family member wanted to use me as an Avon agent which I let her do". You say you didn't sign anything, but did this family member?
    Originally posted by msallen
    So I've spoken with my family member

    She signed nothing on my behalf, she filled out an online form as an agent saying this person (me) was interested in joining avon.
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 7th Feb 18, 1:40 PM
    • 5,204 Posts
    • 7,016 Thanks
    spadoosh
    • #7
    • 7th Feb 18, 1:40 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Feb 18, 1:40 PM
    The only way i can see you getting the default removed is by saying the accounts was set up fraudulently (it was) the problem you face is that might have consequences to the relative.

    Incredibly silly thing to do. You dont have much to stand on considering you the account was set up fraudulently. So you can complain about all the terms and conditions you didnt signe but im fairly confident they will have a signature (i think it can be a typed name on an online form, just tick the x) on your behalf.

    Personally i would be calling the fraudulent account card. The family member can deal with the consequences just as they expected you to deal with them not paying.

    You dont get charged 20 in late fees for filling out an enquiry form. Your relative has already dropped you in it with regards to you having a default which will effect your borrowing capability for the next 6 years, i dont think you can trust what they say.


    ETA, theres a good chance youve blown the fraudulent route if youve been in contact with them. In which case your helping a family member out has effected you credit file for 6 years and will probably cost you more should you wish to borrow money.
    Last edited by spadoosh; 07-02-2018 at 1:42 PM.
    Don't be angry!
    • spook104
    • By spook104 7th Feb 18, 1:52 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    spook104
    • #8
    • 7th Feb 18, 1:52 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Feb 18, 1:52 PM
    The only way i can see you getting the default removed is by saying the accounts was set up fraudulently (it was) the problem you face is that might have consequences to the relative.

    Incredibly silly thing to do. You dont have much to stand on considering you the account was set up fraudulently. So you can complain about all the terms and conditions you didnt signe but im fairly confident they will have a signature (i think it can be a typed name on an online form, just tick the x) on your behalf.

    Personally i would be calling the fraudulent account card. The family member can deal with the consequences just as they expected you to deal with them not paying.

    You dont get charged 20 in late fees for filling out an enquiry form. Your relative has already dropped you in it with regards to you having a default which will effect your borrowing capability for the next 6 years, i dont think you can trust what they say.


    ETA, theres a good chance youve blown the fraudulent route if youve been in contact with them. In which case your helping a family member out has effected you credit file for 6 years and will probably cost you more should you wish to borrow money.
    Originally posted by spadoosh
    As soon as I contacted them I told them I had not agreed to anything so maybe not blown it yet.

    Do the consumer credit regulations not apply here?

    It also turns out that she is pretty sure the fee was paid on the 29th Sept. She is going to find out if it was allocated against another agent (myself and two other family members were agents for her)

    This might be a question for a different forum, but if they allocated the payment to another agent and therefore that account is in credit where would I stand?
    Last edited by spook104; 07-02-2018 at 1:55 PM.
    • Arleen
    • By Arleen 7th Feb 18, 1:55 PM
    • 1,150 Posts
    • 863 Thanks
    Arleen
    • #9
    • 7th Feb 18, 1:55 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Feb 18, 1:55 PM
    Fraud or not aside (you did consent so it's debatable route and, well, no need for that), there are ways for you to go forward. First, reach out to Avon and offer to pay in full now if the default will be dropped, explaining that they did not submit any of the required documents like notices. If they are reluctant still,
    inform them that you will raise a complaint with financial ombudsman service, and if they still don't want to play ball - go ahead with that complaint. There is no way that this is up to any code.

    Secondly, find the family member and take them behind the shed.
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 7th Feb 18, 2:01 PM
    • 5,204 Posts
    • 7,016 Thanks
    spadoosh
    As soon as I contacted them I told them I had not agreed to anything so maybe not blown it yet.

    Do the consumer credit regulations not apply here?
    Originally posted by spook104
    They can only really apply to the people that signed up to an agreement. You didnt. However the company think you did as you allowed someone to impersonate you.

    There are a few different ways of gettinga default removed, i cant help but think the only one that will help you is by decalring fraudulent action.

    You can go the route of hoping a techinicallity will get you off (id say its got to be about 99% of people who think they can get away with it on a technicality end up keeping the default for 6 years). Or you can go the guaranteed route of reporting the fraud.

    Just think Avon have a legal team and will almost certainly have protocols in place to be compliant. Issuing a default is not done on a whim theyre usually pretty black and white, you wither agreed to the terms of contract in which case youre a normal custoemr or you didnt and defaulted on payment. If you defaulted on payment they will have protocols in place that issue automated paperwork telling you. They will be very aware of the procedures to follow. Some do get it wrong, mistakes happen but its just not that common to give me any confidence in thinking this will be a successful outcome for you.
    Don't be angry!
    • Candyapple
    • By Candyapple 7th Feb 18, 2:12 PM
    • 2,909 Posts
    • 2,244 Thanks
    Candyapple
    Secondly, find the family member and take them behind the shed.
    Originally posted by Arleen

    Arleen!
    I'm a Board Guide on the Credit Cards, Loans, Credit Files & Ratings boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com
    • D_M_E
    • By D_M_E 7th Feb 18, 5:25 PM
    • 1,558 Posts
    • 63,592 Thanks
    D_M_E
    So basically they are trying to make you pay for showing an interest in being an agent, despite the fact that you never actually became an agent.

    I think you need to stay off the phone and write a letter detailing that fact and ask them to remove the markers and clear the "account" as you never were an agent in the first place and therefore should never had had an account opened.
    • spook104
    • By spook104 15th Feb 18, 11:55 AM
    • 54 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    spook104
    I'm still awaiting for a reply from Avon but...

    I raised a query with Experian and they came back to me today.

    Apparently the default has been satisfied. Yet no payments have been made to Avon since the default was entered.

    Still trying to track down bank payments but this along with Avon entering the wrong amounts as outstanding on my credit file (by their own admission) only seems to add weight to the fact that Avon have messed up.

    No contact to say there was an outstanding balance.
    No notice of default.
    Entering the wrong details on my credit file.

    Even if there was a valid agreement these are all mistakes they have made.

    Surely I have grounds just on the mistakes they have made.
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 15th Feb 18, 12:08 PM
    • 5,204 Posts
    • 7,016 Thanks
    spadoosh
    I'm still awaiting for a reply from Avon but...

    I raised a query with Experian and they came back to me today.

    Apparently the default has been satisfied. Yet no payments have been made to Avon since the default was entered.

    Still trying to track down bank payments but this along with Avon entering the wrong amounts as outstanding on my credit file (by their own admission) only seems to add weight to the fact that Avon have messed up.

    No contact to say there was an outstanding balance.
    No notice of default.
    Entering the wrong details on my credit file.

    Even if there was a valid agreement these are all mistakes they have made.

    Surely I have grounds just on the mistakes they have made.
    Originally posted by spook104
    No contact to say there was an outstanding balance.

    Any contract will be in name only. They assume its you as thats what deatils where used. Im pretty confident your family memeber would have agreed to a contract. Why would they give it to you when theyve given someone pretending to be you?

    No notice of default.


    There might have been a notice of default. I would assume they used the details that where given to them by your family member, at a guess, they didnt use your address.

    Entering the wrong details on my credit file.
    Mistakes can and do happen. I wouldnt be expecting them to remove a default because they got the amount wrong. Whether its 1 million or 60p. They are simply letting other lenders know that you failed to settle your accounts on time.

    The only thing i think you have grounds for is fraudulent activity. You cant blame mistakes made by them directly as a result of them receiving fraudulent information. It was impossible for them to do any of the first two mistakes any other way because your family member lied.

    By all means try it you might be able to confuse them into removing it. Good luck.
    Don't be angry!
    • spook104
    • By spook104 15th Feb 18, 2:38 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    spook104
    I think you read contact as contract....

    They had the right details for me as they wrote to me previously.

    So definitely no notice of default.

    Mistakes do happen, but they are saying there is no outstanding balance, after saying there was 30 outstanding and they haven't had any payments.

    What I'm saying is. Regardless of the contract. They have made at least 4 mistakes on the outstanding balance during the last 5 months. No notice of default. No notice of outstanding balance. Their own contract states that I'm free from any obligations of the contract when the account is closed.

    All of that says they have missed managed my credit file entries and actually by their own contract it shouldn't have been entered on there after September.
    • McKneff
    • By McKneff 15th Feb 18, 3:46 PM
    • 36,037 Posts
    • 46,446 Thanks
    McKneff
    I am getting the impression from the first post that the family member signed up as an Avon Rep in the Op's name but using her/his own address perhapsbecause she/he couldnt get credit . In this case the op would get no correspondence
    make the most of it, we are only here for the weekend.
    and we will never, ever return.
    • spook104
    • By spook104 15th Feb 18, 4:50 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    spook104
    Not the case as I've had correspondence from them previously to the correct address.

    They also previously emailed me. I've also spoken to them and they have my address correctly recorded
    • spook104
    • By spook104 5th Apr 18, 3:50 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    spook104
    I just wanted to up date this thread so that anyone else in the same or similar situation does know it is possible to get defaults removed.

    After several emails to avon that went unanswered I found the default removed from my credit file. I've confirmed with experian that Avon issues a form to adjust the record entries to my credit file and mark the account as settled not defaulted.
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 5th Apr 18, 4:02 PM
    • 5,204 Posts
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    spadoosh
    Great news!

    What was it that made them capitulate? The lack of contact when applying it or it being fraudulently set up?

    You can get defaults removed very easily if applied incorrectly. Its normally only the two excuses above that will see them removed though. Mine was removed after a phone call to inform that i had been a victim of fraud.
    Don't be angry!
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