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  • FIRST POST
    • financerulez
    • By financerulez 7th Feb 18, 5:24 AM
    • 102Posts
    • 186Thanks
    financerulez
    Adaptis Solutions Railway Byelaw s14
    • #1
    • 7th Feb 18, 5:24 AM
    Adaptis Solutions Railway Byelaw s14 7th Feb 18 at 5:24 AM
    Hi all

    I'm the keeper of a vehicle that has received an enforcement notice through the post. The company is Adaptis Solutions Ltd. Have searched the forum for them, but there's not a huge amount about them. Their website doesn't work, and they aren't on either of the BPA or IPC lists as far as I can see. They have traced me as keeper of the vehicle through the DVLA though, so I thought that meant they had to belong to one of those organisations.

    As keeper, I've received this notice asking for £60 or £100 if not paid within 14 days. Whoever drove the car that day either forgot to pay for parking through the dash app, did pay through the app and there's been a mistake in the system somewhere, or the dash app wasn't working as it often isn't. From reading the forums, it seems the reason is largely irrelevant.

    Anyway, it's an enforcement notice to the keeper, for a breach of the car park terms in accordance with Railway Byelaw s.14 Nonpayment of parking fee. Have done some reading and understand that they won't be able to enforce this as only the TOC can enforce a byelaw breach, and that must be within 6 months. With that in mind I have a few more questions:
    1. If I appeal, will Adaptis not just pass my info over to the TOC, especially if I let on that I know the law in this area?
    2. It seems to me there are a variety of data protection violations. These are well summarised here: parking cowboys .co.uk/2017-01-railway-byelaws-data-protection-act/
    3. How do the DVLA even justify releasing the information to Adaptis is the first place? DVLA must know the law, and if they know that only the TOC can enforce byelaws, why are they giving data out to non-TOC companies?

    My aim is to run down the clock on the 6 months. My first port of call seems to be to launch an appeal with Adaptis after around 25 days. I can ask for a POPLA number, but if they don't belong to either association, will they give me one? I've also heard recently POPLA have stopped hearing cases now? Surely there has to be some form of independent panel or ADR? What will my steps following an internal appeal be, if they aren't association members?

    I've read around a bit, and the newbies thread, and searched Adaptis etc, but as there's not much on them and I can't find them on the lists, and POPLA seems to be in a volatile period, would love some help and advice! Will post draft replies and timeframes on here before acting I think!

    Thanks all!
Page 6
    • financerulez
    • By financerulez 12th Mar 18, 10:59 AM
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    financerulez
    Update

    Nothing back from Adaptis since my appeal.

    Now considering a claim against DVLA.

    I wrote to them asking about their procedures and why they released my data and they confirmed "all car parking enforcement companies who require data from the DVLA must be members of an Approved Operator Scheme. Members of this scheme must adhere to a code of practice for the operation of their company. I have checked on the BPA list of members and Adaptis are still shown as members. We have not been notified that they have left the scheme."

    Unfortunately for the DVLA, I had already written to the BPA who confirmed 3 weeks earlier that Adaptis left the membership on 25th Jan. DVLA didn't process this application until 01 Feb. Note they also aren't on the online BPA membership list of Approved Operators (and haven't been since Jan), so that bit is just a bare-faced lie.

    I've replied informing them of my confirmation from the BPA, and asked what the DVLA are going to do about their mistake here, especially now I am probably going to be harassed from Adaptis for the next few months. (They also confirmed all the correct checks had been done in my case, so that was clearly a lie too.)

    My question is, do I have any claim against the DVLA and what sort of process should I follow to pursue that?
    • financerulez
    • By financerulez 12th Mar 18, 11:00 AM
    • 102 Posts
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    financerulez
    Hi. Have you tried getting onto their web address for making a representation against the PCN? Because I don't believe this works either.

    I've recently had a PCN from Adaptis too. What's more I paid the parking fee at the time (I only used the park by phone facility because their machine was out of order) and I have the proof in the form of text messages from DashPark. HOWEVER - the web address in the letter, which is stated to be the only way of making a representation, comes up with "service unavailable". I have emailed their info email address, their customer services address and I have telephoned them, because I want to make a representation....

    I plan to keep on with this and refer to the Financial Conduct Authority if I continue to get no response.
    Originally posted by LIz
    Hi Liz

    Sorry I didn't see this. Have you started a thread?

    Worth looking into the dates, and follow same process I did re DVLA info.

    You can get to their appeals page still, but I got there by going to the pay the appeal page (funny that still works) and then found a link to it through there.

    Be careful in your appeal not the reveal who was driving.
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 12th Mar 18, 11:40 AM
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    twhitehousescat
    Hi Liz

    Sorry I didn't see this. Have you started a thread?

    Worth looking into the dates, and follow same process I did re DVLA info.

    You can get to their appeals page still, but I got there by going to the pay the appeal page (funny that still works) and then found a link to it through there.

    Be careful in your appeal not the reveal who was driving.
    Originally posted by financerulez

    appeal? why , the company cannot offer an independent appeal system , , so why bother

    any company that wishes to get info for parking from the dvla , must be a member of a ATA AND offer access to an independent appeal system
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 12th Mar 18, 12:16 PM
    • 3,729 Posts
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    Johno100
    Update

    Nothing back from Adaptis since my appeal.

    Now considering a claim against DVLA.

    I wrote to them asking about their procedures and why they released my data and they confirmed "all car parking enforcement companies who require data from the DVLA must be members of an Approved Operator Scheme. Members of this scheme must adhere to a code of practice for the operation of their company. I have checked on the BPA list of members and Adaptis are still shown as members. We have not been notified that they have left the scheme."

    Unfortunately for the DVLA, I had already written to the BPA who confirmed 3 weeks earlier that Adaptis left the membership on 25th Jan. DVLA didn't process this application until 01 Feb. Note they also aren't on the online BPA membership list of Approved Operators (and haven't been since Jan), so that bit is just a bare-faced lie.

    I've replied informing them of my confirmation from the BPA, and asked what the DVLA are going to do about their mistake here, especially now I am probably going to be harassed from Adaptis for the next few months. (They also confirmed all the correct checks had been done in my case, so that was clearly a lie too.)

    My question is, do I have any claim against the DVLA and what sort of process should I follow to pursue that?
    Originally posted by financerulez
    I thought earlier in the thread you had stated that the DVLA request pre-dated them leaving the BPA AOS scheme? If that is the case then I think there is probably something of grey area there.
    • Castle
    • By Castle 12th Mar 18, 12:27 PM
    • 1,706 Posts
    • 2,302 Thanks
    Castle
    The DVLA complaint procedure:-
    https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/driver-and-vehicle-licensing-agency/about/complaints-procedure
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 12th Mar 18, 12:30 PM
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    twhitehousescat
    I think I read it as:

    a paper request was made , adaptis were members of at ATA when DVLA stamped the request

    several days later , the DVLA manually did a search (non ATA at this stage) , and printed off reply to adaptis

    the search and the posting were done when adaptis were not members of an ATA .

    now we all know that the DVLA work on "date sanctioned" , as in look at your DOC ref on your V5 , you can send it by recorded/signed for or whatever , but the action is valid (often several weeks later) when the form is completed/sanctioned/posted .

    KODoe and indeed the online vehicle transfer are instant , however when paper is involved (v888/3) the action date (as per doc ref) is the date the manual action took place

    therefore the DVLA gave info to a non ATA company
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 12th Mar 18, 12:42 PM
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    twhitehousescat

    that is to complain about the way they have handled the case , not to get them to admit they are wrong and do anything about it

    after 10 days , after writing to Mr morley , after getting the ICA involved , a typical reply

    "yes we were wrong , move along now , nothing to see"

    slap hands more training , whatever , that does not help you!!
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • financerulez
    • By financerulez 12th Mar 18, 12:47 PM
    • 102 Posts
    • 186 Thanks
    financerulez
    I thought earlier in the thread you had stated that the DVLA request pre-dated them leaving the BPA AOS scheme? If that is the case then I think there is probably something of grey area there.
    Originally posted by Johno100
    Their request pre-dated them leaving, that is true. I don't have any (well comparatively) issue with them requesting the data at that point. I do take issue with DVLA who processed the application after they had already left, and had they carried out the checks they're supposed to, would have seen they had left. If the intent behind only releasing to AOS members is so they can follow their CoP and not harass people, it follows that they need to be AOS members at the time the data is released, not when the application is made.

    The fact the DVLA still think Adaptis are members 6 weeks after leaving, implies to me they're whole system of checks needs changing!
    • financerulez
    • By financerulez 12th Mar 18, 12:49 PM
    • 102 Posts
    • 186 Thanks
    financerulez
    I think I read it as:

    a paper request was made , adaptis were members of at ATA when DVLA stamped the request

    several days later , the DVLA manually did a search (non ATA at this stage) , and printed off reply to adaptis

    the search and the posting were done when adaptis were not members of an ATA .

    now we all know that the DVLA work on "date sanctioned" , as in look at your DOC ref on your V5 , you can send it by recorded/signed for or whatever , but the action is valid (often several weeks later) when the form is completed/sanctioned/posted .

    KODoe and indeed the online vehicle transfer are instant , however when paper is involved (v888/3) the action date (as per doc ref) is the date the manual action took place

    therefore the DVLA gave info to a non ATA company
    Originally posted by twhitehousescat
    This is bang on.
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 12th Mar 18, 1:02 PM
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    twhitehousescat
    Their request pre-dated them leaving, that is true. I don't have any (well comparatively) issue with them requesting the data at that point. I do take issue with DVLA who processed the application after they had already left, and had they carried out the checks they're supposed to, would have seen they had left. If the intent behind only releasing to AOS members is so they can follow their CoP and not harass people, it follows that they need to be AOS members at the time the data is released, not when the application is made.

    The fact the DVLA still think Adaptis are members 6 weeks after leaving, implies to me they're whole system of checks needs changing!
    Originally posted by financerulez
    this is very very worrying , either the BPA did not inform them or the DVLA did not act on this info.

    I would have expected this to be an automated system (it is - I know this from previous) , therefore it looks like the BPA have goofed up

    have the BPA explained WHY adaptis are not members? were they banned or did they simply quit / not pay fees?
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 12th Mar 18, 2:46 PM
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    • 4,334 Thanks
    Johno100
    Their request pre-dated them leaving, that is true. I don't have any (well comparatively) issue with them requesting the data at that point. I do take issue with DVLA who processed the application after they had already left, and had they carried out the checks they're supposed to, would have seen they had left. If the intent behind only releasing to AOS members is so they can follow their CoP and not harass people, it follows that they need to be AOS members at the time the data is released, not when the application is made.
    Originally posted by financerulez
    Then you need to ask the DVLA what their policy is regarding requests received from a firm prior to them leaving an AOS but not processed until after they have left. That of course may be different if the firm left of their own volition as opposed to being suspended or thrown out.
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 12th Mar 18, 2:55 PM
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    twhitehousescat
    in the words of David Dunsford (regarding another matter)

    "we do not give out information to non ATA companies"

    in this case , the worrying thing is that the DVLA STILL believe that Adaptis are BPA members .
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • financerulez
    • By financerulez 12th Mar 18, 2:55 PM
    • 102 Posts
    • 186 Thanks
    financerulez
    Then you need to ask the DVLA what their policy is regarding requests received from a firm prior to them leaving an AOS but not processed until after they have left. That of course may be different if the firm left of their own volition as opposed to being suspended or thrown out.
    Originally posted by Johno100
    That was my original question, and their answer was they would not release info, but as Adaptis are members they did in this case... Except they aren't members, so the DVLA have messed up!

    Good point re why they left (and above twhitehousescat) - I'll try and get that info.
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 12th Mar 18, 3:06 PM
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    twhitehousescat
    whilst you are chatting to the BPA , ask them HOW they informed the dvla of adaptis demise , method used
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 12th Mar 18, 3:49 PM
    • 3,729 Posts
    • 4,334 Thanks
    Johno100
    That was my original question, and their answer was they would not release info, but as Adaptis are members they did in this case... Except they aren't members, so the DVLA have messed up!
    Originally posted by financerulez
    I get it, not in an AOS then no info.

    But did you ask and did they address the specific point I made in my previous post? I know how you want to interpret what they've told you but are you sure you have the full picture?
    • Handbags-at-dawn
    • By Handbags-at-dawn 12th Mar 18, 6:34 PM
    • 115 Posts
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    Handbags-at-dawn
    It's scandalous that six weeks have passed and STILL the DVLA haven't realised Adaptis aren't members of an AOS.

    Is our data safe in their hands? No it's not. They love to boast they have "stringent safeguards" in place but it's all just words. There are lots of examples but this one is absolutely blatant. Graeme Paton of the Times might be interested: Graeme.paton@thetimes.co.uk
    • financerulez
    • By financerulez 12th Mar 18, 7:03 PM
    • 102 Posts
    • 186 Thanks
    financerulez
    I get it, not in an AOS then no info.

    But did you ask and did they address the specific point I made in my previous post? I know how you want to interpret what they've told you but are you sure you have the full picture?
    Originally posted by Johno100
    I wrote:

    "2. The BPA have confirmed to me that Adaptis Parking Solutions also t/a PaybyPhone left the ATA scheme on 25 January 2018. (I believe that they have since lost their contract at the location of this alleged incident, and I do not believe they will be joining the IPC.) Your letter states that the application was processed on 01 February 2018, at which point the company was no longer part of an ATA scheme. Is it the DVLA policy to release data to private parking companies who are not part of an ATA scheme, if the alleged incident occurred when the private parking company was part of an ATA scheme?"

    They replied as above, that "all car parking enforcement companies who require data from the DVLA must be members of an Approved Operator Scheme. Members of this scheme must adhere to a code of practice for the operation of their company. I have checked on the BPA list of members and Adaptis are still shown as members. We have not been notified that they have left the scheme."

    I will ask them to clarify again, but I don't think they will go further than restating this.
    • financerulez
    • By financerulez 12th Mar 18, 7:04 PM
    • 102 Posts
    • 186 Thanks
    financerulez
    It's scandalous that six weeks have passed and STILL the DVLA haven't realised Adaptis aren't members of an AOS.

    Is our data safe in their hands? No it's not. They love to boast they have "stringent safeguards" in place but it's all just words. There are lots of examples but this one is absolutely blatant. Graeme Paton of the Times might be interested: Graeme.paton@thetimes.co.uk
    Originally posted by Handbags-at-dawn
    I'll drop him a line!
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 12th Mar 18, 7:09 PM
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    twhitehousescat
    the BPA have made a $%^&D up , they have not notified the DVLA

    and as a private company , what can you do
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • financerulez
    • By financerulez 26th Mar 18, 9:37 AM
    • 102 Posts
    • 186 Thanks
    financerulez
    Thought I'd update you all on this, as you may need a laugh on a Monday morning. Awaiting to hear back from the DVLA after I berated them, have sent a chase.

    I've been in comms with Dash Parking, another name for Adaptis although they won't confirm it lol, who probably win the award for biggest morons I've come across.

    I'm sending my responses on last day poss, but so far we're here:


    1. I sent a fairly standard appeal, I'm RK, take it up with the driver, etc.

    2. They sent this:
    Thank you for your appeal against the above Parking Enforcement Notice.
    As xxxx Train Station Car Park is an ANPR operated car park, we do not have details of the driver on the date of the offence. If a payment was not made for parking, a Parking Enforcement Notice will be sent to the Registered Keeper of the vehicle in order to pay or provide the driverís details.
    Under the BPA (British Parking Association) Code of Practice, it states if the keeper does not reply within 28 days, or refuses to give enough details about the driver, under Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 you are able to pursue the keeper for the unpaid parking charge.
    If you wish to provide further evidence or driverís details in order to support your appeal, please respond within 7 working days. If no further correspondence has been received within the deadline set, the appeal will be rejected.
    Thank you
    Kind regards


    3. I replied:
    Thank you for your email. I will assume that you are Adaptis Solutions Ltd, who I received the notice to keeper from and who I sent my appeal to.
    I am afraid there is little evidence or help I can provide, as I was around 50 miles away at the time. I have stated that I do not know who was driving, and this is causing me substantial stress.
    You have stated that you are able to pursue the keeper using POFA 2012 Schedule 4, but please note s.3 of the Schedule, which clearly states that the Schedule (including s.4 keeper liability) does not apply on relevant land (including land subject to statutory control) meaning that POFA 2012 Sch. 4 does not apply on byelaw-governed land, as in this case. As this Schedule does not apply, liability does not pass to the Registered Keeper, me. As this was the reason you have supplied, and it is not valid, please now confirm that this matter is closed with regards to my involvement.
    If you refuse to uphold this appeal, and now try to change the reasoning away from POFA 2012 Sch 4, then you will need to explain a) how I can be held liable, and b) why you mentioned POFA 2012 Sch. 4 in an attempt to try and make me pay for a charge I am not liable for. Should you suddenly change your reasoning I would like the opportunity to reply appealing to such.


    4. At this point you would think they will say we made a mistake, actually it's byelaw 14(4)(i) blah blah... nope! They replied:
    Thank you for your reply
    We can confirm Govia Thameslink Limited a company registered in England and Wales in the Leaseholder of private land at xxxx Railway Station Car Park. Therefore this car park is private land, not governed land. [!!!] Adaptis Soutions entered an agreement with Govia for the provision of ANPR services.
    The provisions in Schedule 4 are intended to apply only on private land in England and Wales. Public highways are excluded as well as any parking places on public land which are either provided or controlled by a local authority (or other government body). Any land which already has statutory controls in relation to the parking of vehicles (such as byelaws applying to airports, ports and some railway station car parks) is also excluded.
    Schedule 4 gives the registered keeper the choice of naming the driver at the time the parking rules were broken or paying the charge him or herself. Without this provision the enforcement of parking on private land could be unmanageable as both registered keepers and drivers could avoid liability and therefore disregard any parking conditions (Schedule 4 POFA 2012). [We know, you morons.]
    If you wish to provide further evidence or driverís details in order to support your appeal, please respond within 7 working days. If no further correspondence has been received within the deadline set, the appeal will be rejected and the amount will be reduced [Lol!] to £60.00.
    Thank you
    Kind regards


    6. You may notice that a) they clearly know nothing about the law, and b) apparently you get a discount for not contacting them haha. Anyway, I've replied:
    You have not addressed the points raised in my previous email, and this is becoming extremely frustrating and causing me unnecessary distress. The land in question is clearly governed by byelaws, a statutory control, as all of Indigo's signs mention byelaws, and your notice to registered keeper alleged a byelaw had been breached. As the land is governed by byelaws, POFA 2012 Sch. 4 does not apply, and liability does not pass to the registered keeper. You must know this is the case as you state it in your email. This is extremely worrying, and it will be necessary to report this to the BPA, DVLA, and Trading Standards as you are wilfully lying to consumers in an attempt to make them pay penalties they may not be liable for.
    You must now cancel this penalty notice to me, the registered keeper. If you refuse to cancel the notice please answer the following questions, in numbered replies addressing each point:
    1. Do you accept that byelaws are in place at xxxx Train Station? Yes or no?
    2. Do you accept POFA 2012 Sch 4 does not apply to byelaw governed land? (Please read all of section 3, it quite clearly sets out that it does not apply.) Yes or no?
    3. Do you accept that POFA 2012 Sch 4 does not apply in this case, as byelaws are in place at xxxx Train Station, and POFA 2012 Sch 4 does not apply to byelaw governed land? Yes or no?
    4. Do you allege a breach of contract has occurred? Yes or no?
    5. By what specific legislation do you allege that I, the registered keeper, have any liability?
    I look forward to receiving confirmation the penalty notice has been cancelled. If it is not, I will need a clear explanation as to how I, the registered keeper, can be liable when POFA 2012 Sch 4 does not apply, and I would like the opportunity to appeal to any such reasoning.


    I will keep updating the thread occasionally in case anyone else gets an Adaptis NtK/fancies a laugh.
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